Adblue system removal - insurance implications?

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jfly57

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I have a concern regarding the shutting off/deletion of the Adblue system in a campervan. Aside from the fact that it is illegal to drive a vehicle to which this has been done, does it void one's insurance cover? I'd welcome hearing other people's experiences and opinions on the issue.
 
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I wasn't even aware it was possible. Would it be possible then to still pass an emissions test? I think you would have to ask an insurance company if it does make it illegal to drive the vehicle I'd be very surprised if it didn't invalidate the insurance
 
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It will make it illegal and, if noticed, will not pass MOT. Lots of vans out there who have had DPF removals previously now fail MOT (due to change in law) - and lot of these appearing on the 2nd hand market which the new owner doesn't know till the next MOT. Re-adding and re-coding would be a mare.

I've not seen anything specific in insurance, but of course would fall into undeclared modification.
 
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I think quite a few people are looking at deleting the system, there are certainly a number of companies that will do it. The main reason being that if there is a problem and you can't get the parts, like many at the moment, then the vehicle gets to a point where it won't start. So you can end up with a very expensive, unusable lump of metal.

There are many issues with such systems too, especially on cars and certain high end makes. Big question is, are they fit for purpose ?
the design and controls weren't really thought through in sufficient detail in relation to potential effects.
 
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BikerGraham said:
I think quite a few people are looking at deleting the system, there are certainly a number of companies that will do it. The main reason being that if there is a problem and you can't get the parts, like many at the moment, then the vehicle gets to a point where it won't start. So you can end up with a very expensive, unusable lump of metal.

There are many issues with such systems too, especially on cars and certain high end makes. Big question is, are they fit for purpose ?
the design and controls weren't really thought through in sufficient detail in relation to potential effects.
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Totally agree with this. The system hits an emissions target, but at what cost?
When the system goes wrong its complex and expensive to fix - if it can be fixed at all. I'm aware of garages that give up and aware of people with virtually no options.
Not exactly providing a long life, and how much extra cost (material/emissions) to replace the vehicle sooner than needed?
I added 5L a couple of days ago and wondered on the "emissions cost" of producing 5L of ad blue, transporting it to the retailer, cost of single use plastic container, etc. And on top of that the systems eat horsepower and mpg so you use more fuel as you drive.

I'm also slightly concerned over what happens in a few years when they all bu**ger up.

And more concerned for 3rd world countries - how any inidan/asian/african countries will be able to maintain modern vehicles even if the people could afford them? Any man there can fix an old engine/car with no tools and skills and even make parts from scratch, but a new car.... Impossible. Think they'll skip the euro 6d onwards models for the masses!

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activecampers said:
Totally agree with this. The system hits an emissions target, but at what cost?
When the system goes wrong its complex and expensive to fix - if it can be fixed at all. I'm aware of garages that give up and aware of people with virtually no options.
Not exactly providing a long life, and how much extra cost (material/emissions) to replace the vehicle sooner than needed?
I added 5L a couple of days ago and wondered on the "emissions cost" of producing 5L of ad blue, transporting it to the retailer, cost of single use plastic container, etc. And on top of that the systems eat horsepower and mpg so you use more fuel as you drive.

I'm also slightly concerned over what happens in a few years when they all bu**ger up.

And more concerned for 3rd world countries - how any inidan/asian/african countries will be able to maintain modern vehicles even if the people could afford them? Any man there can fix an old engine/car with no tools and skills and even make parts from scratch, but a new car.... Impossible. Think they'll skip the euro 6d onwards models for the masses!
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agree wholeheartedly.

I have one that has had issues with Adblue for over a year. No one has been able to fix it. Recently took it to a specialist who has a reputation of being able to fix anything. They checked and tested everything and couldn't find a fault. However, the countdown mileage was still there. Conclusion was its must be a software issue.
They won't update the software for this particular manufacturer as there are problems in doing so. So I went to the main dealer who updated the software, at a price of course.
A week later, Adblue fault back on and started counting down. 2 days later it went off again.
the car is unreliable and unusable. Its only 4 years old.
its either link out the software or replace the whole system at a cost of thousands.

next car will be petrol.
 
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There is one easy solution then - buy an EV and all your ‘Ad-Blue’ issues go away……:(:mad:
 
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AndyPK said:
There is one easy solution then - buy an EV and all your ‘Ad-Blue’ issues go away……:(:mad:
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I'd love an EV but does not touch on being viable for everyone.
Van, not a chance, just would not work for us and our touring methods. Yes, I could opt to park for hours in motorway services, or car parks, or campsites etc but thats not how we use it.
Car, not viable. We don't have set routes, and in 5y we've done maybe 18000 miles from new. Most short trips but also the odd long trip - so a suitable EV would cost huge amounts more and barely be used and in no way pay back itself.

Its only the lease generation who seem to accept the costs which I can't get my head around. I know even with the vans they say "the electric ones are only x% more" -and yes, maybe 10% more isn't a lot - but thats over list prices! I bought our van from new with 44.5% discount from list price. You won't get than on an electric one - so the reality is they are over twice the price - but that never makes good sales headlines.
 
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Apart from all the legal issues why do people want to poison my grandchildren, their neighbours, relatives and friends.
 
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Pausim said:
Apart from all the legal issues why do people want to poison my grandchildren, their neighbours, relatives and friends.
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It's legal in London to poison children if you give Mr kahn £12.50 a day does that make him an accomplished to murder

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AndyPK said:
There is one easy solution then - buy an EV and all your ‘Ad-Blue’ issues go away……:(:mad:
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don't really work for many people, including the way I use the main car for work. I know a few people who do similar work and have tried the EV's for tax purposes. But they have all said the systems are not quite there yet. Another 10 years maybe.
 
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Pausim said:
Apart from all the legal issues why do people want to poison my grandchildren, their neighbours, relatives and friends.
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I think that requires a separate discussion where all aspects of the topic and be aired. Too many try to use guilt whilst accepting double standards from others.

at the end of the day if the Adblue systems in their entirety were fit for purpose then this discussion wouldn't be happening.
 
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Pausim said:
Apart from all the legal issues why do people want to poison my grandchildren, their neighbours, relatives and friends.
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I thought ad blue just stopped greenhouse gasses, so more akin to poisoning the planet
But wonder what the comparison is for the pollutants removed from a vehicles life time compared to a human life time? Thus should we be more keen to reduce kids and over population? Thats going to be better off for the planet long term!

Agree, that DPF removal is directly harmful to people - as was lead (shockingly). We're our own worst enemy.
 
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BikerGraham said:
its either link out the software or replace the whole system at a cost of thousands.
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When 'ad blue' was first introduced there was no cut off if it ran out. We hired trucks that actually cam with the light on" add ad blue" . They run the same.
All that has happened is that they have modified the systems to include level control via the ecu so that the vehicle dies & cannot run if there is a shortage of adblue.
The answer is an ecu delete & remap of the system so that the level control is removed.
As foir dpf " removal" You do not actually "remove it" just take the guts out & refit so that all looks as is externally. The same applies for catalytic converters.
egr valve you can blank whilst leaving all the tat in place. personally I do not like doing this especially with water cooled ones as too much old & problematical junk is left in place.
having done this an ecu modification/delete is also normally required on newer vehicles.
AndyPK said:
There is one easy solution then - buy an EV and all your ‘Ad-Blue’ issues go away……:(:mad:
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Yes then it is only the ev tyres that are potentially far more polluting at x 2,5 than ice vehicles .
 
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activecampers said:
I thought ad blue just stopped greenhouse gasses, so more akin to poisoning the planet
But wonder what the comparison is for the pollutants removed from a vehicles life time compared to a human life time? Thus should we be more keen to reduce kids and over population? Thats going to be better off for the planet long term!

Agree, that DPF removal is directly harmful to people - as was lead (shockingly). We're our own worst enemy.
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No the AdBlue converts the harmful NOx into other substances and the DPF removes the soot and particles. I don’t think either of them reduce the CO2 levels.

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Volvo trucks have big problems with adblue, its incredibly corrosive, put some on concrete and see what it does

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I don’t have a vehicle new enough for any of the stuff mentioned here, we’ll probably have an Egr fitted but not looked. My comment is in relation to things raised here.

If the Ad Blu system is failing for a lot of people why haven’t you all got together and brought a case against manufacturers? We have legislation in place if something is fit for purpose. Or if there is already a group for this have you all joined in to push it along?

As I said I don’t have it but this is first I have seen about cars being unusable
 
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jongood said:
Volvo trucks have big problems with adblue, its incredibly corrosive, put some on concrete and see what it does
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Don’t do like me lol. Not long before I retired I got back from a customer site late and needed washer fluid. Went to the stores and got what I thought was screen wash and topped the washer bottle up. Not good lol
 
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Pausim said:
Their NOx and particulates don’t reach us. AdBlue is about reducing health hazards not CO2 and global warming.
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Its the same air. When manufacturers like Nissan etc produce vehicles for the non EU etc market that wouldnt pass here you have to question the point?

Its a bit like us all bringing in minimum wage, Wtd etc and then getting it all produced by exploited 3rd world kids.
 
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Any system is only fitted to meet a very specific emission measure so there's still plenty of other muck produced by all vehicles that isn't measured. Mixing horse p1$$ with the the diesel is particularly specific and who knew the problems it could be made to create.

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Thanks one and all for all the interesting comments and perspectives on the issue. Yes, @activecamper I think you could be totally correct regarding an insurance company's stance regarding an undeclared modification - any Chinese in your armour and those bu**ers will cease the opportunity to get out.
 
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Sorry, typo there, apologies that was meant to read "Chinese in the armour", good old predictive had its own idea, hope no one is offended.
 
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Thanks AndyPK - here is the strange thing, I carefully read my corrected version in my last post before hitting post and it was what you suggested but again it has appeared as the predictive version! - this is embarrassing, I certainly do not want to give offence. Could I ask an Administrator to please check out this issue.
 
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