A Frame towing

wp1234

wp1234

Joined
Oct 23, 2009
Posts
791
Likes collected
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Location
Anglesey North Wales
Funster No
9,010
MH
Adria Twin 640SLB
Exp
Since 2010
For specific reasons I’ve decided to go down the A-Frame towing route with a Smart Car and only for use in the UK.
Can anyone recommend an installer in the North West / North Wales area ?

Thanks all.
 
wp1234 said:
For specific reasons I’ve decided to go down the A-Frame towing route with a Smart Car and only for use in the UK.
Can anyone recommend an installer in the North West / North Wales area ?

Thanks all.
Click to expand...
Hi, have a look at what systems are on offer. It is worthwhile travelling a bit to get the system that suits you. I go to Towbars 2 Towcars near Grimsby. Not cheap but about as good as you can get
 
Thanks for the response . I was hoping to have one fitted closer to home ( north wales).Looking at the various webpages looks like there is some difference in the portability of the various AFrame systems with some looking lightweight and others look pretty robust .
 
Another shout for towbars2towcars here. Great system that we are very happy with - they will even lend you a car so you can get out and about until the job is done. Maybe make a mini holiday of it?

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DuxDeluxe said:
Hi, have a look at what systems are on offer. It is worthwhile travelling a bit to get the system that suits you. I go to Towbars 2 Towcars near Grimsby. Not cheap but about as good as you can get

I agree, great company to deal with. We have had our Panda for 3 years and recently friends bought an Igo all ready set up and were impressed with the service they received. They have previously had a frames but say this is the best.
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There are quite a few smart card already fitted with A frames for sale. On the forum classifieds from time to time. Also tow a sure website. We bought one through that website, almost brand new and we are very pleased indeed.
Phil
 
Also if you’re at T2T Guy Martin has a pub close by and does a lovely pub meal.
 
Try Smart-Tow. I had a new Kia Picanto converted 4.5 years ago and regularly tow it all over UK. List of installers on their web site. They may have some already converted cars for sale I think.
https://www.towaframe.com.

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Still doing the research on where to get the best deal for a fitting an A Frame to my smart car. The price range is ridiculous ranging from £825 fitted from Hedley Towbars , Car A Tow fitted at £1,300 to over £2,500 by several others other suppliers. I am guessing that the more expensive bars have some super electronic wizardry to work the brakes and the cheaper bars rely on a more manual operation . Given that I don’t intend to do huge distances towing a car is there a real reason why I should not to go for the cheaper option ?Thanks all
 
I had mine fitted by caratow, Treforest, had no problems, it takes a full day. They dropped us at the station for a day in Cardiff, it was a long day as the weather was not good,as I remember.
 
wp1234 said:
Still doing the research on where to get the best deal for a fitting an A Frame to my smart car. The price range is ridiculous ranging from £825 fitted from Hedley Towbars , Car A Tow fitted at £1,300 to over £2,500 by several others other suppliers. I am guessing that the more expensive bars have some super electronic wizardry to work the brakes and the cheaper bars rely on a more manual operation . Given that I don’t intend to do huge distances towing a car is there a real reason why I should not to go for the cheaper option ?Thanks all
Click to expand...

Although normally cheaper I would avoid buying one with an overrun braking system.
 
wp1234 said:
Still doing the research on where to get the best deal for a fitting an A Frame to my smart car. The price range is ridiculous ranging from £825 fitted from Hedley Towbars , Car A Tow fitted at £1,300 to over £2,500 by several others other suppliers. I am guessing that the more expensive bars have some super electronic wizardry to work the brakes and the cheaper bars rely on a more manual operation . Given that I don’t intend to do huge distances towing a car is there a real reason why I should not to go for the cheaper option ?Thanks all
Click to expand...
Make sure whatever you go for complies with the DfT Regulations,

www.gov.uk

A-frames

www.gov.uk www.gov.uk

and especially this paragraph

Trailers having a maximum laden weight not exceeding 750kg are not required to have brakes fitted. However, if the trailer (regardless of mass) is fitted with a braking system, then all brakes in that system must operate correctly and efficiently. This means that the braking systems of small ‘microcars’ (under 750kg in weight) must still operate, even when the vehicle is being towed

My understanding is that the braking system fitted to the car being towed should work as designed. So if the brakes are power/vacuum assisted then that is how they should work when being towed. I don't think overrun type brakes comply with this.
 
Korgrocker said:
Make sure whatever you go for complies with the DfT Regulations,

That's can't be true surely.? My... think overrun type brakes comply with this.
Click to expand...
That is interesting. Talking to a... to keep a vacuum going is to run the engine.
 
Last edited:
Korgrocker said:
Make sure whatever you go for complies with the DfT Regulations,

www.gov.uk

A-frames

www.gov.uk www.gov.uk

and especially this paragraph

Trailers having a maximum laden weight not exceeding 750kg are not required to have brakes fitted. However, if the trailer (regardless of mass) is fitted with a braking system, then all brakes in that system must operate correctly and efficiently. This means that the braking systems of small ‘microcars’ (under 750kg in weight) must still operate, even when the vehicle is being towed

My understanding is that the braking system fitted to the car being towed should work as designed. So if the brakes are power/vacuum assisted then that is how they should work when being towed. I don't think overrun type brakes comply with this.
Click to expand...
My understanding is that power/vacuum assistance to brakes does no more than reduce the effort the driver needs to apply to the pedal. The brakes will work just as efficiently without the power assistance, you just have to push the pedal a lot harder. Overrun brakes do not need power assistance because they are more than capable of exerting as much pressure on the brake pedal as is needed. Basically they have the full weight and momentum of the car to pull/push the pedal, I wouldn't be surprised if the overrun set up is more powerful than power/vacuum assistance.

Overrun brakes are considered sufficient to stop caravans and trailers that are significantly heavier than the average toad. Car hydraulic brakes are designed to work without the power assistance, which is just as well for me. Many years ago I was towing a caravan downhill and as I approached a sharp bend (perhaps a little faster than I should have been) the power assistance failed to both brakes and steering, I had to work a bit harder to negotiate the bend but the steering and brakes still worked well.
 
Pausim said:
My understanding is that power/vacuum assistance to brakes does no more than reduce the effort the driver needs to apply to the pedal. The brakes will work just as efficiently without the power assistance, you just have to push the pedal a lot harder. Overrun brakes do not need power assistance because they are more than capable of exerting as much pressure on the brake pedal as is needed. Basically they have the full weight and momentum of the car to pull/push the pedal, I wouldn't be surprised if the overrun set up is more powerful than power/vacuum assistance.

Overrun brakes are considered sufficient to stop caravans and trailers that are significantly heavier than the average toad. Car hydraulic brakes are designed to work without the power assistance, which is just as well for me. Many years ago I was towing a caravan downhill and as I approached a sharp bend (perhaps a little faster than I should have been) the power assistance failed to both brakes and steering, I had to work a bit harder to negotiate the bend but the steering and brakes still worked well.
Click to expand...

You may be right (I'm no expert of course - just quoting what I've been told when I researched car towing some years ago), but make sure the A-frame is substantial enough to absorb the extra load put on it by an overrun system, over a system that uses the car power assistance for braking.
 
David and Sally said:
Why? Genuine question.
Click to expand...

Because in the event if needing a degree of reversing , which I certainly have in the past , the overrun system could well apply the cars brakes whereas an inertia or electronic system will enable reversing albeit limited due to no directional steering on towed car when reversing.

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Korgrocker said:
You may be right (I'm no expert of course - just quoting what I've been told when I researched car towing some years ago), but make sure the A-frame is substantial enough to absorb the extra load put on it by an overrun system, over a system that uses the car power assistance for braking.
Click to expand...
The load on the A-Frame should be no different, as soon as there is any pressure on the hitch the overrun mechanism applies exactly the right amount of braking to neutralise the pressure. It very simply and cleverly balances and matches the braking of both vehicles. On the other hand I fail to see how an inertia system does more than sense that braking is needed and apply preset pressures to the brakes. I believe that load sensing electronic systems are being developed which would overcome the weaknesses of the electronic inertia systems.
Larrynwin said:
Because in the event if needing a degree of reversing , which I certainly have in the past , the overrun system could well apply the cars brakes whereas an inertia or electronic system will enable reversing albeit limited due to no directional steering on towed car when reversing.
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I can agree that this is a technical weakness of the overrun system. I have to jump out and pull the connecting pin from the brake connection, which is not really allowed. I still can not reverse very far because as mentioned the directional steering usually fouls things up, which is why I describe it as a technical weakness and not a practical one. I am pretty sure I could put together a 12v actuator system to release the overrun brakes for reversing but I still would not be able to reverse more than a few feet, so I haven't bothered. If I heard of anybody getting a ticket for this I might put more effort into the idea.
 
Pausim said:
The load on the A-Frame should be no different, as soon as there is any pressure on the hitch the overrun mechanism applies exactly the right amount of braking to neutralise the pressure. It very simply and cleverly balances and matches the braking of both vehicles. On the other hand I fail to see how an inertia system does more than sense that braking is needed and apply preset pressures to the brakes. I believe that load sensing electronic systems are being developed which would overcome the weaknesses of the electronic inertia systems.

I can agree that this is a technical weakness of the overrun system. I have to jump out and pull the connecting pin from the brake connection, which is not really allowed. I still can not reverse very far because as mentioned the directional steering usually fouls things up, which is why I describe it as a technical weakness and not a practical one. I am pretty sure I could put together a 12v actuator system to release the overrun brakes for reversing but I still would not be able to reverse more than a few feet, so I haven't bothered. If I heard of anybody getting a ticket for this I might put more effort into the idea.
Click to expand...

It’s surprising how far you can reverse if the need really arises, you know when you just missed your turn and don’t want to unhitch, not all in one go, reverse until steering turns, forward a whisker to straighten steering then reverse again and repeat.
 
We have pulled our smart car and now a fiat 500 with the same A frame system by Tow- tal. It is the over run system and functions absolutely fine. There are no issues whatso ever unless you go for the heavier car.
Sorry but it bugs me when folk come on and slate something off when they dont have the full facts or the experience of using one. The System is designed to work with cars of 1100kgs and works fine. The over run system when set up properly is spot on. Dont be put off by information that is incorrect by those who think they know. Ask those who do know about the over run system and see what the answer is..You will always find that the cars weight is more than sufficient to apply the brake and therefore aid the truck when under tow. Think about it for a moment..Your smart car is approx 850 kgs. That is way more than what is required when it comes to applying the brake . Any one who pulls with the A frame from Tow-tal or Car a tow will know exactly how they function. Also..Just how good they are too.
If you are planning to use it abroad in continental use, then the laws change and prevent you from doing so. It then requires to be set up with an independant system.
Personally...dont waste your money on expensive systems if you are to use it in this country only.
I believe TAF of Chestfield A frames are quoting £995 fully fitted or check out KAYTOW of the midlands . Again..£850 to £1150 fitted

Kev
 
I changed from a Car-a-Tow one to a TAF one because it is a lot lighter and I have a few arthritic problems. However both worked very well on overrun brakes (I still have the C-a-T one if someone wants to make an offer).
 
Kev and Carolyn said:
We have pulled our smart car and now a fiat 500 with the same A frame system by Tow- tal. It is the over run system and functions absolutely fine. There are no issues whatso ever unless you go for the heavier car.
Sorry but it bugs me when folk come on and slate something off when they dont have the full facts or the experience of using one. The System is designed to work with cars of 1100kgs and works fine. The over run system when set up properly is spot on. Dont be put off by information that is incorrect by those who think they know. Ask those who do know about the over run system and see what the answer is..You will always find that the cars weight is more than sufficient to apply the brake and therefore aid the truck when under tow. Think about it for a moment..Your smart car is approx 850 kgs. That is way more than what is required when it comes to applying the brake . Any one who pulls with the A frame from Tow-tal or Car a tow will know exactly how they function. Also..Just how good they are too.
If you are planning to use it abroad in continental use, then the laws change and prevent you from doing so. It then requires to be set up with an independant system.
Personally...dont waste your money on expensive systems if you are to use it in this country only.
I believe TAF of Chestfield A frames are quoting £995 fully fitted or check out KAYTOW of the midlands . Again..£850 to £1150 fitted

Kev
Click to expand...

If I’m included in that statement I have had an overrun braked a frame and especially if a slight gradient, where weight is only part of the equation, when reversing with our then Peugeot 107 the brakes would apply so it is not helpful to lead others to believe that it won’t happen because it can.

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