90 days in 180

[chrisinplymouth]

This may be of interest to some of you.
UK government advising they're not sure if the 90 days in 180 will start with a clean clock on 1st January.
That the EU has not yet clarified what the situation will be on the first 90 days of 2021 for people who were in the Schengen during the last 90 days of 2020
It also advises contacting the French embassy to find out. So rather than speculation an email to the embassy would be the way to start.
Any embassy within the Schengen I would have thought. All the countries have airports so all their staff will be preparing for new border control.
For folk still confused by the 90 day in 180 rule here goes.
From the first time you enter the zone following the rule's application you are counting back 180 days. You are keeping a rolling tally of how many of those 180 days have been inside the Schengen Zone.
So lets pretend it's your first ever trip to continental Europe and it's 1st January 2021. You catch an early morning ferry to France. You spend 3 hours in Calais and catch a lunchtime ferry home.
In the last 180 days you have been in the zone on 1 day. You're remaining allowance is 89 days.
Two weeks later you go back to France and stay for 5 days.
Counting backwards 180 days you have now spent 6 of them in the zone. Your remaining allowance is 84 days.

So. Lets say you crossed to France today ( 2nd October). You stay in the Schengen continuously into the new year.
On January 1st you are in Berlin.
The 90 day in 180 rule comes into effect. Counting back you have spent the following number of days in the Schengen.
October - 30
November - 30
December- 31
January - 1
Total 92. You have been in the zone for 92 days in the preceding 180. You have exceeded your time and are now an illegal immigrant.

But... Big but... What we don't know is if the time prior to January will count against us.
Prior to January we are allowed unlimited access to the zone under the withdrawal agreement.
So there is every possibility that we will start on January 1st with a clean 180 day clock. Regardless of whether we have been in the Schengen in the 180 days prior to January 1st or not.

This government article does not say that won't be the case. It just says they don't know. ( golly gosh what a huge surprise!)
Anyone planning on being in the zone on January 1st needs to contact Schengen Zone authorities to check their situation. x

 

[Augusta08]

I will be in France on the 31st December, my next scheduled trip to the uk is 16th April...... I expect a gallic shrug when i get to the passport control "au revoir à bientôt".

I will be back in France within a month.

 

[Badknee]

This is from the Spanish Consulate website. They give till 31/12/20 before the clock may or may not start.

 

[jumartoo]

Something else to muddy the water is the fact that if you're there before January 1st and then stay for 90 days from January, you may have exceeded (will have in Spain) the countries own 90 day rule to register as resident. That's not been a problem so far, as there have been no checks, but now your stay will be counted and an officious civil servant might make an issue of it!!

(This is being pondered on a Facebook site).

Edit Paul's post might have answered this?

 

[The Wino]

This is from the Spanish Consulate website. They give till 31/12/20 before the clock may or may not start.

View attachment 430376

It doesn't say that!. It says you can stay as long as you like until 31/12/20. The bit in red at the bottom is the bit that applies its yet to be decided

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[busby]

Picked this up from another site, makes interesting reading.......


This may be of interest to some of you.
UK government advising they're not sure if the 90 days in 180 will start with a clean clock on 1st January.
That the EU has not yet clarified what the situation will be on the first 90 days of 2021 for people who were in the Schengen during the last 90 days of 2020
It also advises contacting the French embassy to find out. So rather than speculation an email to the embassy would be the way to start.
Any embassy within the Schengen I would have thought. All the countries have airports so all their staff will be preparing for new border control.
For folk still confused by the 90 day in 180 rule here goes.
From the first time you enter the zone following the rule's application you are counting back 180 days. You are keeping a rolling tally of how many of those 180 days have been inside the Schengen Zone.
So lets pretend it's your first ever trip to continental Europe and it's 1st January 2021. You catch an early morning ferry to France. You spend 3 hours in Calais and catch a lunchtime ferry home.
In the last 180 days you have been in the zone on 1 day. You're remaining allowance is 89 days.
Two weeks later you go back to France and stay for 5 days.
Counting backwards 180 days you have now spent 6 of them in the zone. Your remaining allowance is 84 days.

So. Lets say you crossed to France today ( 2nd October). You stay in the Schengen continuously into the new year.
On January 1st you are in Berlin.
The 90 day in 180 rule comes into effect. Counting back you have spent the following number of days in the Schengen.
October - 30
November - 30
December- 31
January - 1
Total 92. You have been in the zone for 92 days in the preceding 180. You have exceeded your time and are now an illegal immigrant.

But... Big but... What we don't know is if the time prior to January will count against us.
Prior to January we are allowed unlimited access to the zone under the withdrawal agreement.
So there is every possibility that we will start on January 1st with a clean 180 day clock. Regardless of whether we have been in the Schengen in the 180 days prior to January 1st or not.

This government article does not say that won't be the case. It just says they don't know. ( golly gosh what a huge surprise!)
Anyone planning on being in the zone on January 1st needs to contact Schengen Zone authorities to check their situation. x

Untill UK and EU finish negotiating no one will know what happens on Jan 1 2021 so why speculate and worry.Whatever the outcome we will find out eventually
BUSBY

 

[nicholsong]

I could be in a ridiculous situation s I have been in Poland for years based on UK membership of EU and then the Transition Period.s free movement. So ggodness knows how many days prior to 31st Dec 2020.

I want to apply for Polish Residency but the Polish government will not process UK applications before 1st Jan 2021.

So if they count days in Schengen before 31st Dec I could be an 'overstayer' on 1st Jan. There must be many more people in similar situations.

I think that is highly unlikely and that they will have to drop any idea about counting days before 1st Jan.

Geoff

 

[Helen Ariel]

But blue passports!

 

[OldCodger]

But blue passports!

made in France

 

[Langtoftlad]

Fretting about things you have no control over

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[OldCodger]

Fretting about things you have no control over

Yeah. But we all do!

 

[The Coops]

I could be in a ridiculous situation s I have been in Poland for years based on UK membership of EU and then the Transition Period.s free movement. So ggodness knows how many days prior to 31st Dec 2020.

I want to apply for Polish Residency but the Polish government will not process UK applications before 1st Jan 2021.

So if they count days in Schengen before 31st Dec I could be an 'overstayer' on 1st Jan. There must be many more people in similar situations.

I think that is highly unlikely and that they will have to drop any idea about counting days before 1st Jan.

Geoff

Not trying to stir up racist comments we have about 4,000 Polish here (working) do you know how that will affect them ?

 

[OldCodger]

Not trying to stir up racist comments we have about 4,000 Polish here (working) do you know how that will affect them ?

Living/working is different from tourism. Different rules for those already here (as with the Brits in Europe) The 90 days applies to both

 

[bladerunner]

So will passports be stamped on entry? If not, how do they know how many days you’ve been in Schengen?

 

[OldCodger]

So will passports be stamped on entry? If not, how do they know how many days you’ve been in Schegeneral.

They are electronically scanned on entry and increasingly exit these days.

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[Langtoftlad]

So will passports be stamped on entry?

How quaint - someone who lives in the analogue world...
It's all digital now... they know all about you from the moment you step off the plane or ferry.

 

[EdwardFT]

They are electronically scanned on entry and increasingly exit these days.

You can bet that they will be scanning British passports, on exit too. Overstaying will come up automatically and you may be fined, or banned from entering Schengen for a period. Wouldn't that be a pain!

 

[gus-lopez]

The 90 days applies to both

But in different ways. the Uk resident can only have 90/180 in all schengen. The permanent foreign resident with TIE can have 90 days in one eu state then 90 in next door etc; exactly the same as now.

 

[OldCodger]

How quaint - someone who lives in the analogue world...
It's all digital now... they know all about you from the moment you step off the plane or ferry.

With the whole advanced passenger data thing they know a long way before...

You can bet that they will be scanning British passports, on exit too. Overstaying will come up automatically and you may be fined, or banned from entering Schengen for a period. Wouldn't that be a pain!

It’s not just brits. We move to third country status. We will be treated the same as the Americans, Australians and any other non EU passport holder. If you read the signs carefully at airports you see that a lot of countries with chipped passports can still use the electronic gates. Same as coming into the UK.

I visited one of the data centres where all the schengen passport data was processed. They been doing this stuff for 20 years. It’s not new and it’s not brexit related other than the switch to third country status.

 

[Jim]

made in France

French company, but made in Poland I believe

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[OldCodger]

But in different ways. the Uk resident can only have 90/180 in all schengen. The permanent foreign resident with TIE can have 90 days in one eu state then 90 in next door etc; exactly the same as now.

Ah. I knew that settled stays gave you the right to be in one country indefinitely but not that you the 90 days in another Thanks

 

[busby]

So will passports be stamped on entry? If not, how do they know how many days you’ve been in Schengen?

They scan your passport in and out. BUSBY.

 

[OldCodger]

French company, but made in Poland I believe

Hey. Don’t spoil the joke!

 

[Helen Ariel]

French company, but made in Poland I believe

So much irony...

 

[nicholsong]

Not trying to stir up racist comments we have about 4,000 Polish here (working) do you know how that will affect them ?

They can apply for Settled or pre-Settled status and will get it if they are working. It is simple if they have tax and NI number.

Geoff

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[Jim]

So much irony...

Only if you're looking for it.

I'm sure plenty would say similar things if they had paid more to have them made here when they could have got them much cheaper elsewhere, who cares where they are made.

 

[nicholsong]

But in different ways. the Uk resident can only have 90/180 in all schengen. The permanent foreign resident with TIE can have 90 days in one eu state then 90 in next door etc; exactly the same as now.

Ah. I knew that settled stays gave you the right to be in one country indefinitely but not that you the 90 days in another Thanks

OldC read Gus post carefully - he said 'permanent foreign resident. A person on a tempoary reidence has the right to live in his host country indefinitely, but is limited to 90 days in the rest of Schengen just like non-EU citizens. He can later(usually after 5 years) convert to permanent residence and then aquires the rights as Gus described.

Geoff

 

[Rob Hammond]

This feels like deja vu

 

[Badknee]

It doesn't say that!. It says you can stay as long as you like until 31/12/20. The bit in red at the bottom is the bit that applies its yet to be decided

What it says is you can stay as long as you want up to 31/12/2020! After that nobody knows which is what I said!

 

[The Wino]

What it says is you can stay as long as you want up to 31/12/2020! After that nobody knows which is what I said!

Sorry I thought you meant time before the 31/12 didn't count!

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