90 day rule, schengen rules, visas. Jees (1 Viewer)

[our poppy lll]

If you complete the logical circle. Overstay your welcome in any country, and you become an illegal immigrant in that country. In your original post you said that should not be allowed. Or can you only be an illegal immigrant by your definition if you have a different colour skin, barely speak the host country language, and arrive in a rubber dinghy?

I believe Schengen is the same as the United States and Australia. Overstay your welcome without good reason and they stop you going back in for many years after.

I never said that in my original post, I clearly said there should be work permits and residence permits and clearly referred to anyone, making a race issue out of my comment is rather unfair, don’t you agree?..I intimated that there is a big difference between those seeking work or residence to those seeking long warm holidays. And that those seeking long holidays are unlikely to become illegal workers and that permits and serious fines would solve such a problem.

 

[meanders]

Obviously illegal immigration

??????? Not sure what that was meant to say then?

 

[Al n Val]

Just been to Alicante Airport, worked my way through Gran Alicante, Santa Pola, La Marina, Torrevieja, and several of the beaches before getting to the Mar Menor, there are a lot of British MoHos wild camping.

These MoHos are obviously wintering here, but are limited to 90 days, it would not harm the country or their rules to allow them to stay 365 days if they wished, or come and go at will they are helping the economy, I was chatting to a guy in the Supermarket, a Brit Moho owner, here for Christmas and can’t stay for the New Year, like me he would have liked to stay longer, but the rules stop him. We have to leave 14th December.. my 90 rolling is up.

How short sighted the rule makers are, if I go back 14th December and I have to wait until 12 March

No one is limited to 90 days if you get the French long stay tourist visa, only those who either can’t be bothered to get it, look for it or just can’t be arsed to do owt about it. But they can be bothered to moan about the 90 day scenario

We flying home 14th Dec for christmas and NY as you are leaving, but we’re flying back 6th Jan

BECAUSE WE GOT THE VISA

Just google it or better still follow the link posted earlier

Enjoy the winter at home and if you get your finger out you won’t need to

You passed us btw, atm the moment we at El Pinet La Marina after leaving Los Narejos Mar Menor the other day.

And if you play your cards right you could actually do 355 days a year legally

 

[Boldly]

On another post you said you had a fair bit if money put by. If you buy a property in Spain for more than 500,000€ you are entitled to a golden visa and can come and go as you please.

 

[our poppy lll]

No one is limited to 90 days if you get the French long stay tourist visa, only those who either can’t be bothered to get it, look for it or just can’t be arsed to do owt about it. But they can be bothered to moan about the 90 day scenario

We flying home 14th Dec for christmas and NY as you are leaving, but we’re flying back 6th Jan

BECAUSE WE GOT THE VISA

Just google it or better still follow the link posted earlier

Enjoy the winter at home and if you get your finger out you won’t need to

You passed us btw, atm the moment we at El Pinet La Marina after leaving Los Narejos Mar Menor the other day.

And if you play your cards right you could actually do 355 days a year legally

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[our poppy lll]

I am looking into it.

 

[PaulW2]

Do you mean that it benefits Britain if I don’t spend money in the EU, well no all I’ll do is try to go somewhere that is warm and is not in the EU. Simples, but worse many people I know are selling up in Spain and buying in other countries not in the Schengen. There is a shortage of housing in Europe so house prices have soared, my €146k house is now worth. €360k… I bought it when the Euro was €1.43 to the £1.00. Today I can buy a £1.00 for €1.20 a big loss for Spain.

Brits are now net property sellers, sure. But the houses remain where they are. Other Europeans are net buyers. French, German, Dutch. And some Swiss, who aren't in the EU but also didn't go stomping out of the house smashing the crystal in the same way as the UK. Does anyone much care? Not as far as I can see.

 

[Tombola]

I am looking into it.

so am i, + the purchase tax,

been down in Murcia the past few days with solicitors, but think we are gonna plump for a cheaper one and maybe aim for NLV initially on either Mar Menor or la Torre, we did look at Hacienda Requilme but a bit too far out.

 

[our poppy lll]

On another post you said you had a fair bit if money put by. If you buy a property in Spain for more than 500,000€ you are entitled to a golden visa and can come and go as you please.

Yeah my current villa is worth 330k, and as you say I have a bit of brass, but that’s not the reason I don’t want to leave the UK, or have a golden visa, it’s tax, the tax in Spain is on world wide assets. And it’s a lot higher than the UK overall. Same in most EU countries.
I don’t want Spanish residency, or citizenship, I have a NIE number to pay local taxes, (Suma) road tax for my car and buy large items, or have work done on the Villa and to have a bank account here.
I do like being in Spain and Europe when it’s warm and sunny. However I will never leave the UK tax system. But I will look at the visa system as mentioned. If it’s an advantage and doesn’t open my tax affairs or cause me to pay tax in the EU it’s something I’ll look at.

 

[gus-lopez]

, or have a golden visa, it’s tax, the tax in Spain is on world wide assets.

But you would only become liable for tax if in spain over 183 days.*

* that is cumulatively ,not consecutively.

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[our poppy lll]

But you would only become liable for tax if in spain over 183 days.

Thats what I was originally getting at! Being able, as a retired old fart, to stay as long as I wanted. Without being a resident!

 

[Al n Val]

Thats what I was originally getting at! Being able, as a retired old fart, to stay as long as I wanted. Without being a resident!

How long exactly do you want to stay?

I meaning EU not just

 

[gus-lopez]

Thats what I was originally getting at! Being able, as a retired old fart, to stay as long as I wanted. Without being a resident!

As long as you only remain for 89 days consecutively ,leave for 1 day & return ,etc ,etc. you do not become a 'resident' You have to be here for more than 90 days consecutively, leaving after 89 resets the clock.
tax residency is cumulative. You can be a "tax" resident without being "resident " & a "resident" without being "tax resident"

 

[our poppy lll]

How long exactly do you want to stay?

I meaning EU not just

Well to be honest I want flexibility, but about 120 days in Spain, at the Villa (a 60 & 2x30 days)
28 days in the Canary Islands at Christmas time or mid winter.
In the MoHo 21 days in France, 14 days in Germany, 14 days in Portugal, 5 days Belgium and Holland.
But it’s more about say I was up to my 90 days and I fancied another 2 weeks, I can’t do it, say I was up to my 180 days and thought hey, let’s go to Portugal for a week in the MoHo, I can’t do it. It’s more about flexibility and free choice..or as we did a lot, driving home, landed on a cracking site at Salbris and had to leave after 3 days when we could have stayed 7 days but could not do it. Or now I have to be back by the 14th of December, my 90 days is up, but I’d like to stay a few days more as friends are arriving… can’t do it. And yet it’s pointless forcing people to leave to comply with government rules that have no bearing on the countries needs!

 

[our poppy lll]

As long as you only remain for 89 days consecutively ,leave for 1 day & return ,etc ,etc. you do not become a 'resident' You have to be here for more than 90 days consecutively, leaving after 89 resets the clock.
tax residency is cumulative. You can be a "tax" resident without being "resident " & a "resident" without being "tax resident"

As I said I’m looking into it..

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[Boldly]

I think you could spend 182 days in spain spread however you liked plus 90 days in the rest of the EU if you had a golden visa. You would remain tax resident in the UK if your family money etc remained there. You need to speak to an accountant to make sure

 

[Al n Val]

it’s not the country that needs you, you need to worry about, it’s your needs, the country really doesn’t need you so get that out of your head
Get the visa and sort it out to suit yourself, it really is as simple as that

 

[Dutch 68]

so am i, + the purchase tax,

been down in Murcia the past few days with solicitors, but think we are gonna plump for a cheaper one and maybe aim for NLV initially on either Mar Menor or la Torre, we did look at Hacienda Requilme but a bit too far out.

Don’t know if you like the south but Competa is Fab, great location, beautiful village, stunning scenery, close to the coast ( Nerja ) close to Malaga, and a very diverse international community who live their permanently, very good restaurants, enough shops , great community pool and gorgeous cheap houses in abundance

 

[EuroTrotters]

Yeah my current villa is worth 330k, and as you say I have a bit of brass, but that’s not the reason I don’t want to leave the UK, or have a golden visa, it’s tax, the tax in Spain is on world wide assets. And it’s a lot higher than the UK overall. Same in most EU countries.
I don’t want Spanish residency, or citizenship, I have a NIE number to pay local taxes, (Suma) road tax for my car and buy large items, or have work done on the Villa and to have a bank account here.
I do like being in Spain and Europe when it’s warm and sunny. However I will never leave the UK tax system. But I will look at the visa system as mentioned. If it’s an advantage and doesn’t open my tax affairs or cause me to pay tax in the EU it’s something I’ll look at.

Similar to us in some ways.

I could get by with 6 months in Spain at our villa, 3 months in Europe and 3 months in the UK or visiting Family in the UAE.

Stay resident and taxable in the UK. But just have the one house in Spain rather than one here and one there.

We pay Non Resident Tax in Spain Along with Rental taxes, IBI, car tex etc. Annoyingly the non resident TAX has never been reduced now days are restricted.

 

[jumar]

We have no regrets, a simple life of freedom, we have chosen correctly, enjoying the relaxed lifestyle that Spain provides, we pay our taxes and what we get back in return is plentiful.
I don't have to write on this forum, "Spain needs us," "They have to change it" ""Spain is missing out" "I have a workaround, con my way into having French Visa and tootle off to Spain" is that what the French are offering their visas for?....a total load of Tosh..
The bottom line is Live with it, chill out and be happy with what you have...a lot more than the greater population of the world.

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[Al n Val]

"I have a workaround, con my way into having French Visa and tootle off to Spain" is that what the French are offering their visas for?....a total load of Tosh..

What do you mean “con my way into having a French Visa and tootle off to Spain”

Who do you know who’s done that?

 

[jumar]

What do you mean “con my way into having a French Visa and tootle off to Spain”

Who do you know who’s done that?

We are on many forums related to motorhomes and non motorhome communities......
It's quite well known that this is used as the Gateway to Schengen.....which is not its intentions...

 

[EuroTrotters]

We have no regrets, a simple life of freedom, we have chosen correctly, enjoying the relaxed lifestyle that Spain provides, we pay our taxes and what we get back in return is plentiful.
I don't have to write on this forum, "Spain needs us," "They have to change it" ""Spain is missing out" "I have a workaround, con my way into having French Visa and tootle off to Spain" is that what the French are offering their visas for?....a total load of Tosh..
The bottom line is Live with it, chill out and be happy with what you have...a lot more than the greater population of the world.

As I have mentioned elsewhere. Continental Europeans do, tootle off to Spain.

The thing for them is, they don’t need a French visa in order to do so.

A few of our neighbours. Dutch, portugués and German do it. They stay resident for tax in their home country. But live in Spain !. A Dutch lady I was taking to in costa Blanca this month tells me she has lived in Spain for four years without claiming residency.

 

[Stevil74]

So I’m having a ball, the sky is blue, it’s cold at night but I don’t want to come home yet.
Schengen is making me leave.

What is wrong with the people who make these silly rules. All that’s needed is work permits and residence permits, if you have enough money to pay your way, you should be able to go anywhere in the free world. Obviously illegal immigration living of another countries generosity and benefits should not be allowed. And permits would control that.

If businesses think they can get away with it, they will pay low pay and no taxes, but by having very severe penalties, things will change. The loss of a business and assets would make employers think hard about breaking the law, especially if it is easy to apply for a work permit and residence permit.

Such permits would help local government and central government plan for the countries social needs, schools, hospitals, transport etc..

The loss of income to countries from those who normally come for months at a time must be enourmous.

Countries have to now consider withdrawing social aid for all immigrants, who do not have a work permit and residence permit. Which should be applied for before arrival.

Countries need to Introduce a visitors holiday maker, retiree permit that lasts a lifetime, come and go at will as long as you pay your own way. Of course this must exclude emergency health care, which can be covered by the participating health agreements.

Does it matter who comes to your country as long as they pay their own way,? I think not.

Permit, otherwise known as a Visa

 

[Boldly]

So I’m having a ball, the sky is blue, it’s cold at night but I don’t want to come home yet.
Schengen is making me leave.

What is wrong with the people who make these silly rules. All that’s needed is work permits and residence permits, if you have enough money to pay your way, you should be able to go anywhere in the free world. Obviously illegal immigration living of another countries generosity and benefits should not be allowed. And permits would control that.

If businesses think they can get away with it, they will pay low pay and no taxes, but by having very severe penalties, things will change. The loss of a business and assets would make employers think hard about breaking the law, especially if it is easy to apply for a work permit and residence permit.

Such permits would help local government and central government plan for the countries social needs, schools, hospitals, transport etc..

The loss of income to countries from those who normally come for months at a time must be enourmous.

Countries have to now consider withdrawing social aid for all immigrants, who do not have a work permit and residence permit. Which should be applied for before arrival.

Countries need to Introduce a visitors holiday maker, retiree permit that lasts a lifetime, come and go at will as long as you pay your own way. Of course this must exclude emergency health care, which can be covered by the participating health agreements.

Does it matter who comes to your country as long as they pay their own way,? I think not.

You could just ignore the rule and pay the fine if caught. Never heard of anyone actually being fined for overstaying.

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[Al n Val]

We are on many forums related to motorhomes and non motorhome communities......
It's quite well known that this is used as the Gateway to Schengen.....which is not its intentions...

I think you might need to read the official French governments guidelines Judith before spouting off that people are conning there way into anything

This is taken off the the French government’s website

“During its period of validity, the long-stay visa is equivalent to a Schengen visa, enabling you to move around and stay in the Schengen Area outside France for periods not exceeding 90 days over any period of 180 consecutive days, under the same conditions as if you held a Schengen visa.”

 

[eddie]

Do you mean that it benefits Britain if I don’t spend money in the EU, well no all I’ll do is try to go somewhere that is warm and is not in the EU.

Probably booked using UK travel agencies, using UK airports, UK taxis/car parks generally spending in the UK

Simples, but worse many people I know are selling up in Spain and buying in other countries not in the Schengen. There is a shortage of housing in Europe so house prices have soared,

Gone up since the Brits left? So not missing us that much

my €146k house is now worth. €360k… I bought it when the Euro was €1.43 to the £1.00. Today I can buy a £1.00 for €1.20 a big loss for Spain.

How is it a loss for Spain? Someone comes along and pays €360k for a second home, and Spain gets rid of someone who doesn’t want to pay residency tax, but wants to
be, to all intents a resident!

More like a win for Spain

We spent three weeks in Lanzarote in January, had April in France, chartered a boat for a Month in St Tropez in May, then Spain for two weeks in June. Back down to Spain in the Winnebago for three weeks in August, and came back from three weeks in Tenerife four days ago. So hard to complain.

I have no real issue with the rules, but I equally accept I can’t go willy nilly to Australia America New Zealand or Mexico and bleat “it’s not fair I should be allowed to stay here as I like it”

Anyway, once the political experiment fails, it will all change again as Europe politically veers to the right, ironically caused by unfettered immigration as seen by the re-introduction of borders and passport controls

 

[our poppy lll]

Probably booked using UK travel agencies, using UK airports, UK taxis/car parks generally spending in the UK

Gone up since the Brits left? So not missing us that much

How is it a loss for Spain? Someone comes along and pays €360k for a second home, and Spain gets rid of someone who doesn’t want to pay residency tax, but wants to
be, to all intents a resident!

More like a win for Spain

We spent three weeks in Lanzarote in January, had April in France, chartered a boat for a Month in St Tropez in May, then Spain for two weeks in June. Back down to Spain in the Winnebago for three weeks in August, and came back from three weeks in Tenerife four days ago. So hard to complain.

I have no real issue with the rules, but I equally accept I can’t go willy nilly to Australia America New Zealand or Mexico and bleat “it’s not fair I should be allowed to stay here as I like it”

Anyway, once the political experiment fails, it will all change again as Europe politically veers to the right, ironically caused by unfettered immigration as seen by the re-introduction of borders and passport controls

Any Brit leaving Spain is a net loss, it is well known throughout Spain that Brits spend twice as much as any other European, they eat out more, the fill more bars, spend many hours buying tat in out door markets, take more trips, the locals and Europeans cook and eat at home, buy cheap beer, do very little during the week. Barter for much cheaper rates. So if I sell my house and say it’s bought by a Dutch, they are going to spend 1/2 as much year in year out than I do.
Then if I do sell I’m going to move my money back into Sterling out of the EU, so the EU loses my sterling investment.

 

[EuroTrotters]

Any Brit leaving Spain is a net loss, it is well known throughout Spain that Brits spend twice as much as any other European, they eat out more, the fill more bars, spend many hours buying tat in out door markets, take more trips, the locals and Europeans cook and eat at home, buy cheap beer, do very little during the week. Barter for much cheaper rates. So if I sell my house and say it’s bought by a Dutch, they are going to spend 1/2 as much year in year out than I do.
Then if I do sell I’m going to move my money back into Sterling out of the EU, so the EU loses my sterling investment.

I do have to agree with you on this one.

It is well known in the Costas that the Dutch and French spend very little.

A couple of Taxi Drivers I know well near us, one Italian and the other Ukranian. They often complain that Brexit has hit them hard in the off season months.

Ill bet there is not a program in the Netherlands called "koopjesminnend nederlands in de zon"

Look how many Brits have bought run down properties in France !. Ill bet there are not that many other nationalities from Europe doing that, Though I undestrstand the Dutch do. But buy their supplies in The Netherland !
.

 

[Soycd]

Madness…and it’s nothing to do with Brexit, it’s the EU rules imposed, Brexit does not affect the EU on this point, the rules makers are being pedantic.

The rule was always there for country's outside the EU, so for UK citizens it has everything to do with the B word. If we were still in the EU we would not have the 90 day rule. We are not in the EU so we have to accept the rule. What makes it even more silly is that an EU citizen can stay in the UK for 6 months, without the need for a visa. That's just the way it is.

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