90 day countdown.

[gwyntaxi]

I am not normally so thick in understanding basic rules , but my question is, I have booked my ferry from Newhaven-Dieppe on 22nd Dec. departing 11PM, and returning on 22nd Mar. What I’m not sure about is when do they count day one from? Is it when I check-in for my departure at 11PM on 22Dec.as I am checked-in by a French check-in operator at the booth, or at 4AM the next morning 23rd Dec. As I haven’t done the night crossing previously so don’t know or think that there will be anyone the other side on arrival 4AM waiting to scan my passport as I enter the Schengen Zone, if they start the countdown from my check-in that’s 91days, I know there will be various responses saying check on the Schengen calculator but from what date because at 11Pm I am in Newhaven but by 1145PM I will technically be outside UK waters, anyone clarify this one please as I don’t want to be penalised for the sake of 1day.

 

[gus-lopez]

The whole day of the 22nd counts .so 22 Dec until 31st is 10 days .+31 for January +28 for February +22 for March =91

 

[Hagstrom]

I'm not so sure. He doesn't land in France to have his passport stamped and entry logged on to the system until the 23rd, which would be his first day in France. There have been other threads on this forum which have favoured that reading of the rules.

 

[Sharkfighter]

It all depends what the date stamped on your passport when you enter, whether in this country or France. I travelled by tunnel last weekend and the clock started in Folkestone after I'd been through French passport control and stopped when I passed through French passport control in Calais on Monday and my passport was stamped again. I clocked up five days but in reality I only spent four full days in the Schengen zone.

 

[Hagstrom]

If on the Newhaven- Dieppe ferry, his passport is likely to be processed in France? Maybe someone who has travelled the route can enlighten us?

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[Minxy]

I think it would be whenever the French officials check the passport, so if it's done in the UK it would be then - ie when you go via Eurotunnel the French check you before you even leave the UK.

 

[nicholsong]

None of this discussion has allowed for Time-Zone change.

Simple logic dictates that you are not in Schengen until your feet hit French soil.

Imagine if the ferry hit an engine problem mid-channel and returned to UK, would you be classed as being in Schengen because a French Immigrarion Officer stamped your passport several hours before?

They must allow some tolerance for the time differences for the Zone changes and the crossing time.

If you don't believe they will work on an 88-day limit.

Geoff

 

[2657]

If I was worried about it I would cross a day later or return a day earlier....simples

 

[Skez]

I have lifted this from someone else's guide to navigating Schengen. I'm not sure of the provenance for this statement and can't therefore confirm its accuracy but it does put a slightly different spin on the calculations. Under this method, if you sail Plymouth to Spain, it will be the day you depart Plymouth that counts as Day 1, not when you land in Spain.
We will be on a 9 month trip next year and will build in at least a week's buffer to avoid any potential problems (having to get back across the Schengen Zone from Turkey for example).

Schengen entry and exit points – These dates are really important to us in getting our allowance accurate. Your entry date is the day you leave the UK (or a non Schengen country) and make your journey to a Schengen country and this counts as DAY 1 of your 90 days. Even if you leave the UK at 6.00pm at night, you must still count this as 1 day in Schengen, irrespective of the hours you have stepped onto Schengen soil. Your exit date is the day leave Schengen and move outside of the zone, either returning back to the UK or moving into a non Schengen country. This is also counted as 1 DAY, irrespective of the time you leave the Schengen area.

 

[Minxy]

Bearing all this in mind I bet a lot of people who want to have their full 90 days ration will be going over on a crossing of some sort from the UK at 00:01 hours on day 1 and coming back at 23.59 hours on day 90!

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[Trevor Wbm]

Here's the calculator: https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/visa-calculator/

Unfortunately 22/12/21 to 22/03/22 is 91 days.

 

[Badknee]

So what about Portsmouth to Santander? Travelling across international waters can’t be counted as being in Shenzhen surely.

 

[Al-Di]

Badknee sorry Paul its the day you leave not by the way you go,

 

[Badknee]

Badknee sorry Paul its the day you leave not by the way you go,

Sorry Alan but it doesn’t make sense to me. Ok, if your on an hour crossing so be it but we will be in international waters. It doesn’t make any difference to me as it happens but when we sail we’re 36 hours away from the Shenzhen zone, do you follow me?


Anyway how are you two doing?

 

[Al-Di]

Sorry Alan but it doesn’t make sense to me. Ok, if your on an hour crossing so be it but we will be in international waters. It doesn’t make any difference to me as it happens but when we sail we’re 36 hours away from the Shenzhen zone, do you follow me?


Anyway how are you two doing?

yes I follow, but its where you leave from, it makes no mention of international boundaries, besides dont the EU(french) own all the waters,

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[G-RMPS]

So what happen if you are on a cruise departing Southampton on day x and arrive in, say, Rome four days later?

 

[gus-lopez]

when we sail we’re 36 hours away from the Shenzhen zone, do you follow me?

You're on a French run boat.

 

[Pablotti]

We’re giving ourselves 4-5 days of contingency in our planning. Saves any hassle if we have a breakdown, illness, major road delay, etc

 

[Badknee]

You're on a French run boat.

Sod off Richard it was built in China

 

[Lenny HB]

Plain stupid if you don't leave yourself at lest a week on more spare, need to allow for contingency maybe a breakdown on the way back.

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[Lenny HB]

If on the Newhaven- Dieppe ferry, his passport is likely to be processed in France? Maybe someone who has travelled the route can enlighten us?

French process them in France, English in UK, the amount of traffic is too small to have French agents on the UK side & English on the French side.

 

[IanRJ]

So what about Portsmouth to Santander? Travelling across international waters can’t be counted as being in Shenzhen surely.

Going to Spain your passport will be checked/stamped on arrival at Santander as it has always been. Your date will start then. The day you sail out to UK will be similar.

 

[Pablotti]

So what about Portsmouth to Santander? Travelling across international waters can’t be counted as being in Shenzhen surely.

Surely international waters are exactly that: International waters. No territory has a claim, and therefore it cannot be counted.

 

[Boris7]

You arrive in France on the 23rd so your fine.

Regardless of when (or if actually) the French check and stamp your passport you don’t set foot in France till the 23rd, the ferry operator will record your passport as being on that crossing and arriving on the 23rd. No French official will waste time and money trying to do you for something the courts would only kick out anyway.

If your worried print out the ferry booking showing departure times and arrival times, if your pinged for overstay (you won’t be) simply show the officer your outbound ferry booking, they’ll send you on your way with a smile.

Their not interested in you or a few hours discrepancy, only in serious overstayers.

 

[Graham and Jane]

I am not normally so thick in understanding basic rules , but my question is, I have booked my ferry from Newhaven-Dieppe on 22nd Dec. departing 11PM, and returning on 22nd Mar. What I’m not sure about is when do they count day one from? Is it when I check-in for my departure at 11PM on 22Dec.as I am checked-in by a French check-in operator at the booth, or at 4AM the next morning 23rd Dec. As I haven’t done the night crossing previously so don’t know or think that there will be anyone the other side on arrival 4AM waiting to scan my passport as I enter the Schengen Zone, if they start the countdown from my check-in that’s 91days, I know there will be various responses saying check on the Schengen calculator but from what date because at 11Pm I am in Newhaven but by 1145PM I will technically be outside UK waters, anyone clarify this one please as I don’t want to be penalised for the sake of 1day.

We are crossing on the same route on 14th December I contacted DFDS and we were told our 90 days start when we land on French soil and not when we leave uk If you contact DFDS they will confirm all procedures for you

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[Skez]

I've found it quite difficult to find anything authoritative to confirm or refute what I reproduced in post #9 above. It seemed so illogical! Below is extracted from the European Commission website and makes it clear (I think!!) that it's the first day of stay on the territory of the member state that counts. :

The definition of short stay of non-EU citizens in the Schengen area is "90 days in any 180 days period" The short-stay calculator can be used for calculating the period of allowed stay. The user's guide contains information on these rules, the use of the calculator and practical examples.


As from 18 October 2013 for the vast majority of the third-country nationals – irrespective of
being visa required or exempt – who intend to travel to the Schengen area for a short stay
(contrary to reside in one of the Member States for longer than 3 months) the maximum
duration of authorised stay is defined as "90 days in any 180-day period […]". "The date of
entry shall be considered as the first day of stay on the territory of the Member States and
the date of exit shall be considered as the last day of stay on the territory of the Member
States

 

[Kups]

You arrive in France on the 23rd so your fine.

Regardless of when (or if actually) the French check and stamp your passport you don’t set foot in France till the 23rd, the ferry operator will record your passport as being on that crossing and arriving on the 23rd. No French official will waste time and money trying to do you for something the courts would only kick out anyway.

If your worried print out the ferry booking showing departure times and arrival times, if your pinged for overstay (you won’t be) simply show the officer your outbound ferry booking, they’ll send you on your way with a smile.

Their not interested in you or a few hours discrepancy, only in serious overstayers.

Same as the customs officials seem to have no interest in checking the contents of our fridges.
It'll all settled down soon.