240V Charger with Solar, B2B and Lithium Batteries

[Garratt]

I'm in the process of working out a retrofit for my Rapido PVC to change the 100Ah Banner leisure battery for a 100Ah lithium. I already have a 120W solar panel that is connected to a Victron smart MPPT controller and have worked out the wiring changes needed to install the B2B (probably going with a Victron unit). However, I'm seriously considering not bothering to replace the Nordelettronica NE287 battery charger (which doesn't have a lithium profile), and simply leaving it switched off, as I'm not sure how often it would really be needed. When we are off-grid, the fridge runs on gas, and when pitched on a site, we generally plug in to shore power, so the only real loads on the leisure battery are the USB chargers, the water pump and the Truma 6E electronics and fan. The lights are all LED. At the moment, when we are on hookup, the charger is powered up, and through the Nordelettronica electronics, the charger is connected to both the leisure and starter battery (I'm guessing that there is a diode or similar to stop the habitation side taking power from the starter battery). If I disconnect the charger, then the starter battery wouldn't receive any charge, and I would have to install a trickle charger such as Sterling or Ablemail Battery Maintainer.

Does anyone have any real world experience of this? I know from reading the lithium battery threads that quite a few Funsters have changed to lithium, but the 240V charger part of it never gets discussed.

 

[cmcardle75]

I'm in the process of working out a retrofit for my Rapido PVC to change the 100Ah Banner leisure battery for a 100Ah lithium. I already have a 120W solar panel that is connected to a Victron smart MPPT controller and have worked out the wiring changes needed to install the B2B (probably going with a Victron unit). However, I'm seriously considering not bothering to replace the Nordelettronica NE287 battery charger (which doesn't have a lithium profile), and simply leaving it switched off, as I'm not sure how often it would really be needed. When we are off-grid, the fridge runs on gas, and when pitched on a site, we generally plug in to shore power, so the only real loads on the leisure battery are the USB chargers, the water pump and the Truma 6E electronics and fan. The lights are all LED. At the moment, when we are on hookup, the charger is powered up, and through the Nordelettronica electronics, the charger is connected to both the leisure and starter battery (I'm guessing that there is a diode or similar to stop the habitation side taking power from the starter battery). If I disconnect the charger, then the starter battery wouldn't receive any charge, and I would have to install a trickle charger such as Sterling or Ablemail Battery Maintainer.

Does anyone have any real world experience of this? I know from reading the lithium battery threads that quite a few Funsters have changed to lithium, but the 240V charger part of it never gets discussed.

It sounds like a plan. You can always turn it back on again if you get too low. The main issue with a lack of lithium profile is that it will overcharge on absorbtion/float. i.e. it won't turn off when fully charged. It'll be fine when the battery is not fully charged, so if you can remember to turn it off at the right time, you can use it to charge your depleted lithium.

Some BMSes (normally sold as "drop in") will do this for you. Mine does. If you just plugged it into a 14.4V output charger, it would happily suck whatever amps you have available and then cut off the cells when the fullest one hits the configured maximum cell voltage. It then lets the charger be a pure power supply with no battery. This is only safe if that power supply is rated to run without a connected battery (some require a big battery lump for voltage regulation and can give out very high rippled voltages if not present, which could damage your equipment). This would also rely on the BMS alone to avoid overcharging, rather than the belt and braces of a charger with an appropriate profile, PLUS the BMS protection.

 

[the1andonly]

I have a rapido with cbe kit cbe300 distribution box and 516 charger. I use a votronics mppt controller so sb charge is taken care of. I very rarely use ehu so mains charger is switched off, if i needed a mains charger i have a separate 10a one that could live in the battery box and plug into a ehu socket. If you have a cbe300 dont forget to disable the split charge relay cut r37. Lots of threads and confusion here if needed. 2nd Picky from Pausim
This is a good place to connect a b2b neg B1 B2 availablr, white cable is D+
There is a circuit diagram from stirling that may be useful.

 

[SomeoneElse]

Look at Votronic triple.
It does solar, B2B and mains, but only one at a time. The down side, is the it doesn't charge the engine battery when its set to Lithium for the leisure battery.

 

[RogerIvy]

We have installed an inexpensive EHU charger in some vans (LifePO4 battery) that are only 20A, mostly for when they are at home And on EHU. DM me if you want the link. Cost about £42 landed. So far no failures.

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[Motorhomer14]

I have done what you are doing, I have a lithium connected to an EBL-211 which does not have lithium profile. I removed the 240v plug from this to prevent charging when on EHU. I do not need lithium charging as I have 300 watts solar and a 30A B2B. This all works ok but you loose a few functions.

No starter battery charging
All the load is on battery even when on EHU. (Would normally parallel load share)
No EHU indication

I was thinking of installing a 240v contactor to disconnect the lithium when on EHU from the EBL so I get starter battery charging and the EBL take on the vans load but not sure the EBl can take on all the load without the battery connected

 

[Garratt]

Thank you everyone who has replied. After a bit more pondering, I had a chat with Paul at Delta Conversions. They are the agent for Nordelettronica in the UK and have an online shop on their website. I asked about the NE287 charger, as the manual etc on their website had no mention of the latest version having a Li profile. He confirmed that the ones that he has in stock definitely do have a Li profile and given that it was relatively well priced at £110, I went ahead and ordered it. It will be a straight swap for the older model installed by Rapido in the van. It has a 21amp output, so won't take forever to recharge the battery if needed. I will probably install an on-off switch on the 12V side, so that I can choose when I want it to boost the battery and leave the solar to do its stuff for most of the time.

 

[daveclare]

Did you get an NE287 for Lithium? I'm in the same position, so will get one from Delta if you were successful.

 

[Garratt]

Did you get an NE287 for Lithium? I'm in the same position, so will get one from Delta if you were successful.

Yes, it works fine. Setting the lithium profile was done with dip switches, and it was a straight swap for the old one.

 

[Lenny HB]

I was thinking of installing a 240v contactor to disconnect the lithium when on EHU from the EBL so I get starter battery charging and the EBL take on the vans load but not sure the EBl can take on all the load without the battery connected

The EBL will have a 20 amp fuse on the front pulling it will disable the mains charger, you could wire up a relay via those connections.

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[Motorhomer14]

The EBL will have a 20 amp fuse on the front pulling it will disable the mains charger, you could wire up a relay via those connections.

Thanks ended up going down the Victron blue smart route, got good price on one and it can now charge both lithium and starter battery if needed and be removed to charge my car battery if needed. VLOG