12v appliances

[hogger]

Hello All

Can all you knowledgible people advise on 12v appliances and whether they are worth getting i.e. kettle, air fryer etc.
I re-joined a few weeks ago and my wife and are currently living in Spain and on the search for a van suitable for off grid as much as possible. We've been to a couple of dealers here but so far nothing ticks the boxes.
I'm not that technical and haven't read up on the subect of 12v versus normal voltage appliances. If you have a good amount of solar, inverter,charger and lithium set up would it not be best to use 240v in this case or would it be better to go with all 12v stuff anyway to conserve batteries?

So far, we've not came across a van with a good set up yet. We do realise we may need to find the right van and get more stuff fitted ourselves in terms of solar/inverter etc, but assuming we do have a good set up what would be best.

Apologies for the long winded post when I could probably have written this in two sentences.... I do tend to get distracted and ramble a bit and there it seems there is so much to think about when buying a van.

Many thanks in advance

Steven

 

[1967bowesj]

Your second paragraph sums it up.
Lots of solar, lithium and inverter given where you are based.
Forget about finding a perfect set up straight out of the dealers, you will be better off finding the layout that's right then get what you NEED fitted as you use the van.

 

[rb62]

12v appliances in our book are a waste of time,gas bottles and re fillable is relatively cheap in Spain,the other option is solar and lithium. As has been said find the right van first,ours had refillable gas and solar which is what we've always had and managed perfectly well.

 

[The Wino]

Hello All

Can all you knowledgible people advise on 12v appliances and whether they are worth getting i.e. kettle, air fryer etc.
I re-joined a few weeks ago and my wife and are currently living in Spain and on the search for a van suitable for off grid as much as possible. We've been to a couple of dealers here but so far nothing ticks the boxes.
I'm not that technical and haven't read up on the subect of 12v versus normal voltage appliances. If you have a good amount of solar, inverter,charger and lithium set up would it not be best to use 240v in this case or would it be better to go with all 12v stuff anyway to conserve batteries?

So far, we've not came across a van with a good set up yet. We do realise we may need to find the right van and get more stuff fitted ourselves in terms of solar/inverter etc, but assuming we do have a good set up what would be best.

Apologies for the long winded post when I could probably have written this in two sentences.... I do tend to get distracted and ramble a bit and there it seems there is so much to think about when buying a van.

Many thanks in advance

Steven

You won't get a 12 v full sized kettle or air fryer the cables would need to be really thick with a big battery to.make them work. It's either change your habits to a gas fridge gas grill/ oven etc or decide that the appliances are really important and go for lots of solar lithium batteries a b2b new charger inverter etc probably a good few thousand all in if someone else fits it for the convenience.

 

[MisterB]

Layout is the most important issue, closely followed by layout and then finally the layout ....

All the rest are just 'toys' that can be added, changed etc

So if you can find the perfect layout that has all the extras then brilliant, but if you find the perfect layout at an affordable price then go for it and start to add the toys AFTER you've used it a few times, so you can work out what it is that you actually want or better still what you actually need!

 

[Jimbohorlicks]

The only 12v appliance we have is the tv. Everything else is 240v through the inverter or ehu .

 

[herald_400rl]

The only 12v appliance we have is the tv. Everything else is 240v through the inverter or ehu .

Not even that for us, tv, air fryer, induction hob, kettle, toaster, all 240v.
Only thing 12v is the lights and water pump (and igniter for gas for water/hob/oven).

 

[hja]

Our new van they have ditched all previous 12 v sockets except for tv location. Replaced with usb c sockets. 240 v sockets still there of course.

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[Jev88]

12V is not a good option if you want heat or cooling.

Good for other things like lights, TV, charging phones, fans and power to control boards in fridges, heaters and boilers.

 

[LesW]

Replaced with usb c sockets.

These have limited use, being only 5v..I have items that require 12v to charge them up, laptop, shaver, tyre inflator etc.

 

[hja]

These have limited use, being only 5v..I have items that require 12v to charge them up, laptop, shaver, tyre inflator etc.

I didn’t really mean they were an alternative, just that that is what had been put in their place, physically. My sloppy language.

 

[Barriesimpson]

12V is not a good option if you want heat or cooling.

Good for other things like lights, TV, charging phones, fans and power to control boards in fridges, heaters and boilers.

We have 12v air conditioning - excellent bit of kit and could not live without it.

 

[fishplug]

My previous van was a 12v system (no 240) and it worked well for me.

However, I had LPG which powered my cooker and a diesel air heater.

I didn't have running hot water (kettle into an insulated pot worked well enough)

My rough 'rule of thumb' for the new van is that if anything has a high power draw then it's best on 240v (induction cooker, kettle, hairdryer type stuff) everything else is on the 12v circuit.

12v appliances worth buying include compressor fridges, lighting, radio/HiFi, TV

12v appliances not worth buying in my view would be hairdryer, kettle, rice cooker (yes, they exist) etc. They all sort of work up to a point but they'll take forever to do so.

Laptop charging, however, I think is best done from a proper USB C PD port so you're not going from 12v at the battery up to 240v at the inverter and then back down to 20v at the charger... It's a very inefficient way of doing it IMO. Even with pre-USB C laptops I used a 12v cigarette lighter adapter cable (£20 ish) which worked perfectly and more efficiently.

 

[Barriesimpson]

Laptop charging, however, I think is best done from a proper USB C PD port so you're not going from 12v at the battery up to 240v at the inverter and then back down to 20v at the charger... It's a very inefficient way of doing it IMO. Even with pre-USB C laptops I used a 12v cigarette lighter adapter cable (£20 ish) which worked perfectly and more efficiently.

You are right about the inefficiency, however you can recharge a lap top in half an hour or so using the inverter and a rapid charger. Same with the mobile phones, so at the end of the day it's a question of - how quick do you need to charge it?

 

[fishplug]

Agreed - but I normally put it on charge overnight or while driving so speed isn't of the essence.

However, people do use things differently so thank you for your correct observation.

 

[Mister Rob]

If you're going to be in Spain most of the time don't bother with 12v appliances. Get as much solar on the roof as possible 400ah or more lithium battery and a 3000w inverter. Then you can run most 240v appliances and recharge batteries with plentiful solar. You can manage with no gas at all by having a diesel heater and a compressor fridge

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[pappajohn]

12v appliances, no matter what they be, will never beat 240v appliances.
As an example, i tried a 12v mini kettle one day at work.
One mug of water...... 15 minute tea break over before the kettle boiled.
Decent batteries, decent method of quick charging and an inverter then use 240v appliances.
If 12v was any good your house electrics would be 12v.

 

[Jev88]

We have 12v air conditioning - excellent bit of kit and could not live without it.

I see that as sort of the next step. What battery bank do you have out of interest.

 

[Barriesimpson]

I see that as sort of the next step. What battery bank do you have out of interest.

Just a 280ah lithium which has served me very well on the 5 month Irish Raid.

 

[autorouter]

These have limited use, being only 5v..I have items that require 12v to charge them up, laptop, shaver, tyre inflator etc.

USB-C has changed, and is constantly evolving. It can now supply voltages up to 20V, and currents up to 5A. So that's 100W, which is enough to charge most laptops. In fact the latest can go to 48V 5A,which is 240W. The 'USB is only 5V' is a thing of the past.

The point is, it uses the data lines of the USB connection to negotiate what the device requires. If it's an old phone or satnav, it just gets the old 5V, so everything is backward-compatible. If it's a laptop that asks for more, it can supply up to 100W.

My laptop charges at 65W through one of these, which could go to 100W if requested.

UGREEN 130W PD Car Charger 3 Ports with 100W USB-C Cable

UGREEN 130W USB C Car Charger: PD 100W high-speed charging, fast charge 3 devices, multiple protocols, and durable 100W USB C to C cable. Perfect for family travel.

uk.ugreen.com

 

[herald_400rl]

USB-C has changed, and is constantly evolving. It can now supply voltages up to 20V, and currents up to 5A. So that's 100W, which is enough to charge most laptops. In fact the latest can go to 48V 5A,which is 240W. The 'USB is only 5V' is a thing of the past.

The point is, it uses the data lines of the USB connection to negotiate what the device requires. If it's an old phone or satnav, it just gets the old 5V, so everything is backward-compatible. If it's a laptop that asks for more, it can supply up to 100W.

My laptop charges at 65W through one of these, which could go to 100W if requested.

UGREEN 130W PD Car Charger 3 Ports with 100W USB-C Cable

UGREEN 130W USB C Car Charger: PD 100W high-speed charging, fast charge 3 devices, multiple protocols, and durable 100W USB C to C cable. Perfect for family travel.

uk.ugreen.com

My work laptop charger is usb-c and 180w

 

[LesW]

USB-C has changed, and is constantly evolving. It can now supply voltages up to 20V, and currents up to 5A. So that's 100W, which is enough to charge most laptops. In fact the latest can go to 48V 5A,which is 240W. The 'USB is only 5V' is a thing of the past.

The point is, it uses the data lines of the USB connection to negotiate what the device requires. If it's an old phone or satnav, it just gets the old 5V, so everything is backward-compatible. If it's a laptop that asks for more, it can supply up to 100W.

My laptop charges at 65W through one of these, which could go to 100W if requested.

UGREEN 130W PD Car Charger 3 Ports with 100W USB-C Cable

UGREEN 130W USB C Car Charger: PD 100W high-speed charging, fast charge 3 devices, multiple protocols, and durable 100W USB C to C cable. Perfect for family travel.

uk.ugreen.com

That particular item appears to plug into a 12v accessory socket, and at an outrageous price.

 

[Eurohomer]

We have 12v air conditioning - excellent bit of kit and could not live without it.

Which model do you have? And is it more efficient than running a 240v unit off of an inverter?

 

[Barriesimpson]

Which model do you have? And is it more efficient than running a 240v unit off of an inverter?

Bergstrom 12v full inverter, works perfectly for me. I have no idea about the 240v models as I have never used them (except at home).

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[autorouter]

That particular item appears to plug into a 12v accessory socket, and at an outrageous price.

Can you find an adapter, or even a panel-mounting USB-C socket, that will supply 100W and is cheaper?

 

[LesW]

Can you find an adapter, or even a panel-mounting USB-C socket, that will supply 100W and is cheaper?

https://ebay.us/m/2phvix
Loads on ebay..

 

[mikash]

https://ebay.us/m/2phvix

Loads on ebay..

Says only 36W PD in the desc. Maybe 100W QC on the USB-A.
Same seller has a "200W" charger too, but desc says 100W on QC and 65W on PD so even theoretically can't reach 200W. Combined max may be even less because probably doesn't have a separate DCDC for each port so the combined max often limited by both ports running same voltage. This is very common in power banks and cheap chargers.

There's loads of inaccurately advertised chargers on ebay, better be careful and read the small print and not be overly disappointed if the reality is 36W or at best 65W instead of the 100W.

 

[fishplug]

also, I don't know if anyone else spotted that the 'outrageously priced' one in the link also included a cable....

I'm still on the hunt for a USB-C PD socket that isn't a cigarette lighter plug in and that isn't £95 like the 'camper' ones were when I last looked.

It's been a while since I did a search so I might take this thread as a nudge to try again.

With the number of people doing DIY conversions I'm surprised there hasn't been more on the market already.

 

[mikash]

also, I don't know if anyone else spotted that the 'outrageously priced' one in the link also included a cable....

I'm still on the hunt for a USB-C PD socket that isn't a cigarette lighter plug in and that isn't £95 like the 'camper' ones were when I last looked.

It's been a while since I did a search so I might take this thread as a nudge to try again.

With the number of people doing DIY conversions I'm surprised there hasn't been more on the market already.

Give me a nudge if you find one, no luck in that search for me either

 

[blackpete]

We have 12v TV & satellite,12v Maxxfan, 12v drop down beds and USB rechargeable items such as lights - Erin Doors has a set of rechargeable hair straighteners which she says are great!
I have rechargeable tyre inflator for minor van adjustments and bikes.
I am amazed how little electric we use (200AH Gel and 100W solar with a crappy PWM controller)
We barely take the top off the battery voltage.
Everyone is different - odd nights on EHU we break out the Airfryer - we have no oven.