Safe Fill or Gaslow?

[Wanders from Glos]

We currently use two 6kg Butane gas bottles and want to swap at least one of these for a refillable solution to make travel in Europe for extended periods without EHU easier.

I had pretty much made up my mind to get one Galsow cylinder and retain one Calor Gas one (so that I have backup in places where there are few LPG options). Then chatting to the people parked next to us on the site they showed me their Safe Fill bottles. I can see some advantages to these, for example they are transferrable and installation is straight forward. But I wanted to ask people's experiences.

To fill them they need to be removed which doesn't seem the end of the world. But I wondered how receptive garages selling LPG are to this especially in Europe. I appreciate we will need a host of adapters, but I have read anecdotally that they like to see LPG being filled through a filler cap on the side of the vehicle?

 

[Lenny HB]

Better tell GasLow!!
Here are the instructions on the GasLow website

That link is unreachable I said it was old info they no longer support.

 

[Brains]

That link is unreachable I said it was old info they no longer support.

Thanks: Updated the link it's here https://www.gaslowdirect.com

 

[Lenny HB]

Thanks: Updated the link it's here https://www.gaslowdirect.com

That is just a very old leaflet that has been uploaded doesn't appear on their current website.

 

[PlacidoD]

Two comments. Both our vans with refillables have had the filler point in the skirt and have never had a problem. To get it at waist height means it probably needs to be in the locker door to keep all the connections within the locker or external to the habitation area. I was also informed by a gas engineer that the hoses are not meant to flex that frequently when opening or closing the door to turn the gas on or off.

The other factor is that just because someone has not been refused thus far cannot be relied upon. Murphy's law will always ensure you are almost out of gas the day it happens and the next station is 50 miles away in the wrong direction.

Two comments by way of reply:
1. Best practice would suggest it is best not to have the pipes flexing. Convenience may overrule that. Be careful and note Lenny's comments.
2. Your 2nd comment only really illustrates the downside of relying on one cylinder be it Campingaz, Calor or a refillable and in any case running it to empty. I have two cylinders and can probably last three months in summer and an absolute minimum of two weeks in the depth of a cold snap in the worst of winter (Both are a guess because it has never happened.) So I top up before heading abroad. End of!!

A third comment: I read that there tend to be more oily deposits in LPG from some EU PFS (I get the impression that is mainly Spain/Portugal but could be wrong). Long term that can clog up your regulator. Yet another reason for overcapacity and an ability to stick to filling in the UK.

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[meanders]

I have never had an issue filling abroad and when you are at -10C or thereabouts for a couple of weeks, you will need to fill abroad or really curtail a trip. I did lose a regulator to oiling many years back but that was when I was using Calor before the Gasit system.

 

[cyberyacht]

I don't understand why some people are removing their bottles to refill apart from the option of taking the car rather than the motorhome to the garage. Can you not access the connection on 'single point' bottles without removing the cylinder?

 

[GMLS]

Easy enough to strengthen the sill, lazy deadly.
If you have it in the door make you have a rubber hose SS ones are downright dangerous in the door.

Yup we do and that is something they do need to make clearer.

 

[Wanders from Glos]

Thanks all for the useful input, please keep it coming.

I think I have ruled out Safe Fill because I’m not convinced about filling in Europe, my main reason for wanting refillable.

I’m not convinced about having the fill point in the door, just can’t see how that won’t cause a problem long term. So it’s down to something permanent with a fill point in the sill or body. It’s a job that’s beyond me so I need to get a fitter, fortunately there is a local chap.

I like the look of Alugas, but it doesn’t seem as widespread. If not then it will be Gaslow, which seems a bit cheaper.

 

[Lenny HB]

It’s a job that’s beyond me so I need to get a gutter, fortunately there is a local chap

You are a sensible guy Andrew I'm sure you would find it very easy, normally only a case of cutting two holes.
There are some poor dangerous installations out there but I'm sure Claire would keep an eye on you.

I like the look of Alugas, but it doesn’t seem as widespread. If not then it will be Gaslow, which seems a bit cheaper.

As you are a Young lad another advantage of Alugas is when the cylinders are 10 years old you can pop over to Germany and get them changed for half the price of new ones.

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[PlacidoD]

I don't understand why some people are removing their bottles to refill apart from the option of taking the car rather than the motorhome to the garage. Can you not access the connection on 'single point' bottles without removing the cylinder?

I can do that but my gas locker is inside my garage so I would have to half climb in through the two doors pulling the gas hose behind me.

If filling abroad or any situation where filling in the van I could temporarily take the bottle out of the gas locker and place it (or bungee it up if e.g. driving across a car park like that) immediately inside the garage door them move it back into the gas locker immediately post filling. I would do the above only if I had any concerns that taking the bottle out fully and filling it stood alongside the garage door might lead to a refusal.

Sticking the light weight bottle in the car is so much easier!!

 

[Basildog]

I can do that but my gas locker is inside my garage so I would have to half climb in through the two doors pulling the gas hose behind me.

If filling abroad or any situation where filling in the van I could temporarily take the bottle out of the gas locker and place it (or bungee it up if e.g. driving across a car park like that) immediately inside the garage door them move it back into the gas locker post filling. I would do the above only if I had any concerns that taking the bottle out fully and filling it stood alongside the garage door might lead to a refusal.

Sticking the light weight bottle in the car is so much easier!!

NOBODY should be filling a cylinder inside a vehicle
Only a complete moron would take the gas pump hose into their vehicle.
I have witnessed first hand the complete failure of the gun , which was easily managed outdoors quickly shutting the pump valves.
External locker is obviously not considered as being inside the vehicle so a fill point or cylinder being filled is perfectly acceptable.

 

[Lenny HB]

As gas bottles have to be transported upright I would have thought a 10kg Safefill wouldn't fit in a lot of cars.

 

[PlacidoD]

As gas bottles have to be transported upright I would have thought a 10kg Safefill wouldn't fit in a lot of cars.

Zero problem in mine - in the footwell behind the passenger seat with that front passenger seat pulled forward.

 

[Lenny HB]

Zero problem in mine - in the footwell behind the passenger seat with that front passenger seat pulled forward.

I really made the comment to point out it's not safe to throw them on there side in the boot which a lot of people do.

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[Wanders from Glos]

You are a sensible guy Andrew I'm sure you would find it very easy, normally only a case of cutting two holes.
There are some poor dangerous installations out there but I'm sure Claire would keep an eye on you.

As you are a Young lad another advantage of Alugas is when the cylinders are 10 years old you can pop over to Germany and get them changed for half the price of new ones.

I agree totally with anyone that has the wisdom to describe me as young.

 

[PlacidoD]

NOBODY should be filling a cylinder inside a vehicle
Only a complete moron would take the gas pump hose into their vehicle.
I have witnessed first hand the complete failure of the gun , which was easily managed outdoors quickly shutting the pump valves.
External locker is obviously not considered as being inside the vehicle so a fill point or cylinder being filled is perfectly acceptable.

Which is why I take mine to Morrisons in the car!

I was merely explaining my other options following cyberyacht's contribution.

 

[PlacidoD]

I really made the comment to point out it's not safe to throw them on there side in the boot which a lot of people do.

I shudder at the thought!!!

 

[Landy Andy]

My filler is inside my gas locker.

It has the shortest possible gas hose lengths, (you should be turning off your cylinder valves before filling anyway). I can see if I have any leaks or issues during the filling process. The fill point and all the hoses are further away from impact areas if in a crash, and stay clean, dry, and away from road salt. They don’t pass through drilled holes that can wear into, or through a hose. Gas locker obviously has drop out vents. By far the safest option.

Only ever been refused filling gas once and that was at a Shell in France. Then filled at the next Total (who apparently don’t allow it). In France you have to pre pay for gas, so they don’t know or care where your filler is, as they don’t know until you have already paid. Filled up my cylinders today

 

[Lenny HB]

In France you have to pre pay for gas, so they don’t know or care where your filler is,

We have never had to pre pay for gas in France.

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[Landy Andy]

I thought you don’t fill in France?
All the motorway service stations want you to go in pay an amount of money (I gave a 50 euro note) then they operate the pump. You leave fill your vehicle, then go back inside to get change / receipt. Always been like that for the 7 ish years I’ve been filling in France. Only other way is a card payment / auto pump.

 

[Lenny HB]

I thought you don’t fill in France?

I try not to but often a case of having to.

 

[Brains]

We have never had to pre pay for gas in France.

I've yet to see two LPG pumps that work the same way, or two fuel stations with the same rules.

Some you pay up front, some in arrears, some have a person do the filling, most don't.
Some you have to keep pressing a button, others you have to keep pressing a lever, other fill like a car with the filler holster.
Some insist they can see you fill, most don't care. Some will only switch on the pump, once they have done the 'inspection' (to make sure you have an external fill point).

..... and as for the myriad of LPG connectors, we have used 3 different ones in the same country!

Last week I filled at Parkfoot garage at Malling, just off the A20 (Cheapest LPG in Kent and one the way to the ferries/tunnel)
The LPG connector was working, but frozen LPG was leaking all over the place! It was literally pouring down the side of the motorhome.

 

[PlacidoD]

Safefil only ever had an agreement with Morrisons for filling. Now Morrisons are MFG there is no company with an agreement with Safefil. I wouldn't buy one.

Where on earth do you get that from? Nobody shows the slightest concern when I take my SafeFill cylinder out of the car plonk it by the pump and fill it at Morrisons!!

EDIT: I have just done a search and cannot find a single post supporting your assertion.

Well I have just topped up one SafeFill cylinder at my local Morrisons this afternoon with zero problems as always. So I now have 19kg of LPG onboard. That should last me a while and there is no way I will require a refill on my September jaunt into the EU. In fact I very much doubt I will need a refill this year!

For anyone interested a full cylinder is going to weigh about 15.3 kg depending on how quickly the pump auto cuts out.

 

[IRHP]

Where on earth do you get that from? Nobody shows the slightest concern when I take my SafeFill cylinder out of the car plonk it by the pump and fill it at Morrisons!!

EDIT: I have just done a search and cannot find a single post supporting your assertion.

https://www.safefill.co.uk/ only Morrisons had an agreement.

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[DABurleigh]

I have a Gaslow cylinder with external filler and a large Safefill cylinder holding 19.5l of LPG.
I don't need an external gas point as it's quick and easy to take out the lightweight Safefill with a propane regulator and quick connector on the hose to supply social barbecuing away from the van, a ring burner for crêpes on a DIY seasoned mild steel disc, a gas fire in a quick-erect screen house or simply a loan to a fellow camper in need. The Safefill also supplies the home barbecue. Shine a torch from behind and give the cylinder a little shake to easily see the level.

When in the van the Safefill is principally a backup when the Gaslow empties. When next convenient I'll refill the Gaslow. I've never yet tried refilling the Safefill abroad, but top it up at home when next near a local trusted filling station, such as Morrisons at Cribbs Causeway or Andy's Gas near that. The advantage of a home filling is I have the kitchen scales to hand to weigh the residual LPG by subtracting the tare from the measured weight and then calculate the amount to safely fill to 80%. The Safefill mechanism to prevent overfilling makes a nonsense of its branding IMHO.

Currently I use mains for space heating, water heating and fridge/freezer, but LPG for all these off-grid as well as the hob. I will be getting a 2kW diesel heater for redundancy and to reduce LPG consumption in the expectation that refilling will get harder.

Dave

 

[PlacidoD]

https://www.safefill.co.uk/ only Morrisons had an agreement.

And they continue to offer the service. So what is the problem? I am aware of a good half dozen outlets in Bolton selling LPG who will happily allow you to refill a SafeFill cylinder. Nobody takes a second look at what you are filling when on the PFS forecourt. There was no "agreement" with Morrisons in the sense of a contractual obligation but rather and acknowledgement by Morrisons that SafeFill met required safety standards which at one stage they were not accepting.

Plainly if you want to be able to "plug in" to a fitting on the van exterior and are prepared to pay for that installation a refillable bottle with inlet and outlet fittings is necessary otherwise SafeFill is lightweight and I think a tad slimmer than other bottles so has some advantages.

 

[mikeg40]

another with gaslow, no color but 2 11kg bottles. never had a problem even with the number of UK LPG outlets shutting. I just treat the gas as I would waste/water and plan options ahead. if I'm below 1/2 and near an outlet... with hindsite I would probably have fitted an underslung tank and used the gas locker as storage but that depends on your circumstances. I've had my current van 8 years and have no intention of changing anytime soon

 

[peterc10]

Last week I filled at Parkfoot garage at Malling, just off the A20 (Cheapest LPG in Kent and one the way to the ferries/tunnel)
The LPG connector was working, but frozen LPG was leaking all over the place! It was literally pouring down the side of the motorhome.

Parkfoot garage is the nearest LPG pump to us and we always use it to fill when heading North. It has been like that for over a month. The pump nozzle seemed to be a poor fit on the bayonet. In the end I got one of the staff to fill for me.

 

[John and Jo]

We have had Gaslow on our last 2 vans with external fill point and never had an issue. If ever you need tech help I've found Gaslow excellent.

Having said that on our new van we are having 1 x 11kg Alugas with external fill point. They are a significant weight saving and Alugas users on here speak well of them.

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[TheMachMan]

Has anyone used the lightweight Gasbank bottles? Any installers in the South?