Maybe a how rude question? Why turnover in MHs? (1 Viewer)

[DDDigger]

Apologies if this is a bit impertinent for a newbie to ask, particularly one who hasn't even bought their first van, but a bit of browsing of forums and looking say on Autotrader at the number of vans (sorry still need to work out the right term to refer to both PVCs and Coachbuilts) with multiple previous owners on not ancient plates brings it to mind,

Why do people change up vans so frequently? I'm aware of the general advice that it is only in your third or so van that you really get right what you are looking for, but very keen to avoid that pitfall. Is the current Covid influenced period an exception where in some cases people are literally getting back what they paid for a van (or more) so there is no hit on depreciation so it's a much easier change?

Is there some magic number for age whereafter damp and faults start to tip the roulette wheel or should I relax on the thought that I might be having cost to change every few years once I get into it (on top of whatever tweaks and upgrades I apply during ownership like solar etc)?

If the answer is that some people can afford it and spend a lot of time in their vans so why not, maybe that's less worrying than the thought that I could easily buy into a lemon first time out?

I guess there is also the factor that people buy on impulse then real life gets in the way. How much of a factor is this - I struggle with the idea of late plate vans with say 3000 miles, why are they so little used (maybe a lockdown factor again)

As I said, don't wish to be rude but interested in perspectives.

 

[AndyPK]

Not sure about the ‘buying on impulse’ bit…….a very expensive impulse buy!
Our first ‘van was a 16 year-old AutoSleeper Clubman - we bought it to ‘try’ motorhoming , and it wasn’t too expensive. We sold after a year for a larger, more suitable ‘van (us and four dogs in a 5.4m ‘van was a little cramped!), and then, after a couple more years, we bought an even larger ‘van with a fixed-bed which is just about perfect for us…….at the moment
We wouldn’t have considered spending £50k+ on our first foray into motorhoming, but consider that amount to be worth paying for what we have now…….

 

[funflair]

I think you will find that there are all sorts of reasons,

People buy on a whim and then find they don't use it,

People buy the wrong layout,

Some buy and then their personal circumstances change,

Some might just use the van locally say 75 miles from home for a week at a time would not rack up many miles,

 

[Mrsambulancekidd]

I think where age of a MH is concerned it really boils down to how well they have been cared for and/or if the particular make has a history of problems or not.
We bought ours 2 years ago, so before covid struck, she is approaching 27 years of age now and we have no regrets at all, Robert has enjoyed upgrading her to the point where we can stand alone if we need to for at least 2 weeks and we don't have solar panes yet, in fact I think she has more gadgets than some modern MH's now.
Edit.....The only thing I would have liked would be a fixed bed, but it's not the be all and end all.

 

[TheAleMan]

We are not like that. We have been in the camping game for getting on 15 years now, and we had our first van for 14 of those. We kept it that long because we got the layout right for us 1st time of asking, and once all the niggles were ironed out it was a fantastic van. Our latest van seems to be to our liking too, so I can see us having that one for a while also. So to sum up...one of the reasons people change van, is because they find out that the layout doesn’t quite suit them after a short while Of ownership.

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[Brains]

I noticed the same thing when we were buying ours, Why so many fairly young low mileage MoHo's on the market.

I came to the conclusion that many are bought on retirement, they use them for a couple of years, realise that this is not a full time life change they want so they sell.

 

[Simon Meadwell]

We spent ages finding the right van £40k Burstener. . Great van had five years trouble free but then wife wanted to change for a fixed bed so we did . As soon as we find the correct table solution think we have a van for life. I think you are overthinking the situation. The vans arent changing hands frequently because they are lemons people change their minds. Could be size layout, they dont like motorhoming a number of reasons .
Find one you like do all the checks and go for it.

 

[Dorwyn]

You could say the same about cars, some people buy new every year or swop for a different model on impulse, some people keep them for a long time. It's not just motorhomes. Of course, there is the issue of damp in a motorhome, it might seem easier to offload it in the hope that the next buyer doesn't suffer from it, and then buy a new one without damp issues. And regarding impulse buying, many motorhomers I have spoken to say they bought their van on an impulse, even though it may have cost them many tens of thousands of pounds.

 

[funflair]

We are not like that. We have been in the camping game for getting on 15 years now, and we had our first van for 14 of those. We kept it that long because we got the layout right for us 1st time of asking, and once all the niggles were ironed out it was a fantastic van. Our latest van seems to be to our liking too, so I can see us having that one for a while also. So to sum up...one of the reasons people change van, is because they find out that the layout doesn’t quite suit them after a short while Of ownership.

We had our first van for 8 years and when we swapped we went for exactly the same layout just newer, the other side of that is we were at one of the Warners shows a few years ago talking to the Travelworld guys selling N+B and they told us that they had just sold an Arto to a guy who came to the show as a day visitor just for a look around and had never camped in his life, don't know how long he kept that for

 

[Eggs]

More money than sense.

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[DDDigger]

Not sure about the ‘buying on impulse’ bit…….a very expensive impulse buy!
Our first ‘van was a 16 year-old AutoSleeper Clubman - we bought it to ‘try’ motorhoming , and it wasn’t too expensive. We sold after a year for a larger, more suitable ‘van (us and four dogs in a 5.4m ‘van was a little cramped!), and then, after a couple more years, we bought an even larger ‘van with a fixed-bed which is just about perfect for us…….at the moment
We wouldn’t have considered spending £50k+ on our first foray into motorhoming, but consider that amount to be worth paying for what we have now…….

I guess this is close to an articulation of what I see myself doing though I'm emotionally closer to the idea of a 6m van as my first. I'd like to get in at not too much upfront cost to really see the difference between must haves and nice to haves then hopefully not lose too much when trading into what I decide will work longer term. Now is not a good time to be starting because the number of very tired looking vehicles swamping the sub £20-25k market hence I'm willing to bide my time a bit and invest in learning.

 

[Spriddler]

Some buy a m/h for a specific trip or period of time.
I bought my son a m/h for £28,000 for his 4 month European sabbatical trip in 2018 because his wife didn't like mine ( ) and it seemed to be by a long way the most cost efficient plan rather than hiring for 4 months.
In fact when he returned we sold it at a tasty profit with another 10,000 miles on the clock.

 

[deleted79651]

More money than sense.

Tempting to say that in some cases, 50p would meet that criterion, but that would be unkind ... And, in any event, since buying Brunhilde 17 weeks ago, I've now got more debt than sense ... Perhaps a case of 'something I'd failed to depreciate', and that's not a Malapropism!

Steve

 

[Ivory55]

Or maybe one of the couple has died and they can’t use it but not part with it. So unused for a while then sold ?

 

[maison]

We changed due to upsizing from a PVC (panel van conversion) but bought a great looking m/h which proved to have basic design flaws that caused problems that could not be overcome . They would have been very difficult , if not impossible, to spot at purchase.
Traded it in at 15 months and 11k miles for our present one.

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[androidGB]

DDDigger Can I just say that that this is one of the best newbie questions I've seen, and as usual some great answers.


Andrew

 

[funflair]

More money than sense.

That most likely covers me BUT I don't have much sense ergo not much money either not anymore anyway

 

[Puddleduck]

It's a great question and one with several answers.

Our first van was a home built upgrade from a tent Everything could be lifted in and out as needed and it was used both as my everyday vehicle but also for weekend (and longer) kayak trips.

The second van was a very old Hymer and we had that for a couple of years, took it to the South of France (again kayaking) and sold it due to a house move when we were going into a rental for a while. The rental had limited parking and we didn't want to pay storage fees.

The third van was only 3 years old when we bought it and was great for the two of us - then ours sons both had children and it just wasn't big enough so after 2 years we traded it in for the van we have now which is ideal. There was nothing wrong with the trade in - just circumstances had changed. The new van was ordered at a show when we went to buy an awning ...... we looked round to see what would be on the market second hand in two or three years when we intended to change and the model we bought was on the last stand as we were leaving the show and was exactly what we were looking for. The price, deal and trade in were spot on so as I was about to inherit a small sum of money we went for it. Never regretted it and the "new" van is now 5 years old. Last year it hardly moved so if we discount that it has done 30,000 miles in 4 years including a trip to Italy. Because of out family situation the van is our refuge when providing care for family members so some would say it's more of a caravan than a motorhome but one has to cut one's jacket from the cloth available so to speak.

 

[On the road again]

Many reasons, upsizing, down sizing, trading up,trading down, personal circumstances, kids fleeing the nest so size of van not needed etc etc.Financial situation also comes into it.
It also depends on what stage in life you are at. If you're still working and tied to holiday allowance then you'll use it less than us retired and semi retired.Some use them for all their holidays all the time. Others take long haul trips when the MH is not a viable option for that.
For us, some 5 years ago, we bought after a chat to a chap on the next balcony to us in our hotel. SWMBO and I were swapping sunbeds around the world and he mentioned he couldn't wait to get home to get in the MH for a month in Scotland.We'd hired one some 20 yrs before and liked it so gave it some thought.
We came home from that holiday on the 13th May and, by June the 11th we were on the ferry to France in the MH. So yes, we could be classified as impulse buyers. We then realised that the layout was wrong for us so, 3 yrs ago, bought a fixed island bed layout and are very happy with it BUT I'm not sure my eyesight will pass the 70 yrs old licence test so we might be downsizing soon.

 

[mikebeaches]

After a lifetime of camping (under canvas) and caravanning, we wanted to explore whether motorhoming would work for us. So we looked for a used van at a modest price - we ended up with a 6-year old Rapido with only 13k miles on the clock.

At the time, we were also attracted to a significantly younger, but more obscure brand van (SEA). However, the thinking was that even though older, the Rapido, as a reasonably premium and well known brand, it would probably retain its value better and be easier to sell when the time came. And so it proved to be, providing a great introduction to motorhoming. Admittedly, whilst is was good, we didn't keep it very long.

And the next van was a new one (Chausson), which we kept for five years, before getting another new one (Rapido again) which we've had for just over five years.

Hope you can find what you are looking for.

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[nicholsong]

I guess this is close to an articulation of what I see myself doing though I'm emotionally closer to the idea of a 6m van as my first. I'd like to get in at not too much upfront cost to really see the difference between must haves and nice to haves then hopefully not lose too much when trading into what I decide will work longer term. Now is not a good time to be starting because the number of very tired looking vehicles swamping the sub £20-25k market hence I'm willing to bide my time a bit and invest in learning.

I was just about to write something similar for you when I saw that post of yours.

I will relate my experience: I bought our first and only MH 12 years ago and I am still happy with it. I had many years of experience on my boat for 25 years which helped with knowledge of some aspects which translate across, e.g batteries, 12v electrics, limited water, gas systems etc.

I spent 2 years researching and another 2 years finding the right one. I was still working part-time and still had the boat, so I was not in a hurry, but like you I wanted to get it right.

Before I started looking for the right MH I had already made a specification list for myself of what it should encompass. I recommend doing this, as when you are trawling through adverts, or on forecourts, you soon get to reject the ones that do not match the spec. The second reason is that you can show salesmen the spec,, which has several effects - firstly, they know you are a serious buyer who has done his homework, secondly it saves the salesman's and your time and thirdly he knows that it is no use trying to steer you away from that spec towards just anything he as in stock, because he does not have a match to the spec.

I was lucky in that I had decided that I wanted an 'A' Class with a garage and a fixed bed and that I wanted a quality build, so had more or less narrowed it down to something like a Hymer B644 or 649. I called at a dealer who I thought might have one but did no. However, they had a N&B Arto to same spec. and as soon as I walked in I knew it was quality and even better than Hymer. I agreed a price, left a deposit but dealer sold it over my head. By then I was stuck on that N&B model and found one privately for £5K less, at 6 years old and 16.000 miles.

I think I have only lost about £5K in depreciation over 12 years. Quality builds do not fall apart and hold their value. Better if you could up your budget to nearer £30K.

Bit of a long post but I hope it backs up in a bit of detail what I highlighted what you said about time and learning.

Good luck, keep searching and be patient - the right is there somewhere.

Geoff

 

[Jonno1103]

Nothing rude about your questions.

Multiple owners could mean dealer ownership. Just like car sales motorhome dealers register vehicles to pad out their sales figures... that's owner No1,
I come along and buy it brand new but a little cheaper as it's registered, I'm owner No2.
That could be done within a week of it being delivered from the builder.

3 years later I decide I want to change... the new dealer becomes owner 3. Sells it 2 days later to owner 4. The motorhome has only had 2 real owners.

Many owners find that a van part financed has a generous settlement figure allowing them to trade up, afterall no finance company wants you to leave... ever. How about that surplus overseas configured Swift Toscana you see on the forecourt which is the equivalent to a Kon Tiki Sport but is 25k cheaper because it's left hand drive, some find them temptation beyond endurance.

Was the owner a previous caravanner and now feels hemmed in as they no longer have the freedom given to them by the tow car?

Just do your homework, look at the online brochures to see what is standard and if preloved what was specified by the previous owner. There are dealers who'll make out that certain fitments are extras when in reality they're part of the standard build... Alloys and solar are prime examples.

Not to everyone's taste I know but as another example the Auto Trail website has handbook and brochure downloads right back to 2010. So if you're considering a 2013 Apache etc it's all there online.

The amount of buyers who don't bother to lie on beds, stand in showers or ask for even the shortest of demo's is staggering. There are those who won't even test drive them then realise once out there their new pride and joy is too long, too wide or not powerful enough.

Just because a licence gives you the permission to drive a vehicle doesn't mean you have the ability. I saw one bloke rip a good portion of his roof, lost his aerial and a roof light driving under tree on a Devon campsite in July to get to pitch that wasn't anywhere near where he should have been. He then turned around and went back again! I later found out that once on his pitch someone else reversed it on for him...

Don't be shy, construct all of the beds, lie on them, then see how much space you have to move around in when you need the loo at zero dark thirty, play with the kitchen... is there space for your 10 tubs of Oats so Simple? Does the dropdown bed block the habitation door when lowered? Are the fresh & waste tanks large enough? Some 2 berth coachbuilds only have an 80L fresh & 40L waste even though they have the payload to have larger ones.

Personally in 2021 I wouldn't touch a van approaching 10 years old without a comprehensive historic paper trail. '10'11 & 12 plated coachbuilds will have wood in them which has been subject to a decade of stress, the outer shell bombarded by U.V and let's face it, in terms of structure, technology has moved on considerably since then.

You also have to consider that environmentally the emission standard will be Euro 4 or 5.

Coachbuilders give a 10 year max on integrity for a reason. Yes, the internal cabinetry may have stood the test of time as they tended to build the cupboards out of heavier ply but that's not going to do you much good when your rear wooden wheel arches collapse due to road debris damaging the outer plastic linings letting the water in... Wheel arches on older coachbuilds are notoriously difficult to test for damp. Then there's the wood around rooflights and window frames, basically every square and oblong cut out.

If you get water ingress in a younger motorhome then there's a build issue, simple as. They can all suffer from it as coachbuilds are hand made, the outer shells aren't built by robots, none of them are perfect. You also have the issue of window, rooflight and door manufacturers who for one reason or another have faulty seals. One renowned fabricator famously decided to choose a cheaper supplier... that left expensive teeth marks on their bum cheeks - and as all converters and coachbuilders source their products from the same companies the ripples were felt throughout the industry. Coachbuilders of all nationalities took the brunt of the blame when in reality they weren't at fault.

Mileage is a personal thing. Many owners, like us, use the motorhome for holidays, I retired at 47 but the missus has a few years left. Pre Covid we averaged 5-8k per year. Since June 2020 we've only managed just over 4500.

 

[grumps147]

You will also get two other factors, downsizing as needs change, and downsizing because of driving licence changes - loss of C1.
With the current increase in weighing, you will also get upsizing as families realise just how much payload they really need to stay legal.

 

[androidGB]

Before I started looking for the right MH I had already made a specification list for myself of what it should encompass. I recommend doing this, as when you are trawling through adverts, or on forecourts, you soon get to reject the ones that do not match the spec. The second reason is that you can show salesmen the spec,, which has several effects - firstly, they know you are a serious buyer who has done his homework


Geoff

I don't think this is necessarily always the case. All salesman and many private sellers will have suffered at the hands of the "hobbyist" who wastes their time asking loads of questions to demonstrate their knowledge, without having any real intention of buying.

Andrew

 

[Googlebot]

We had our first van for 2 years now. One owner before us and we intend to keep it for a long time. It’s not perfect with the layout, but it’s a compromise and coming from caravanning, we realise that if you want a certain size, you can’t have everything.

It was very expensive for us, even before COVID and people gasp when we say how much it cost. It’s a Hymer Exsis so not a premium mark by any means. However depreciation I put around 3k a year or perhaps a bit less at present. My knackered S Max lost that much over the past few years as well so I know which one is the better vehicle.

Mileage wise, we hammer ours. Even with 18 months of COVID we have done 17,000 miles in two years. Our view is we got it to go where we want and not worry about mileage or residual value.

They are so complex and expensive, to a degree you are taking a gamble buying one of any age out of warranty. You just have to hope and it helps if you can do simple things yourself. Ours was one of the few I viewed and I only looked for a couple of weeks. This was before COVID though and we needed a fairly specific size and weight to fit on the drive and licences. There were plenty to choose from, not the case now.

What I would say is we had just as much fun in our knackered caravan a few years ago as we have in our expensive Motorhome now.

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[two]

Boredom. For some, this might take only a year but most will take two or three.
By then it's time to move on, either to a completely different kind of hobby or to upgrade.
It's unusual to get everything right first (or even second) time, so easier and more exciting to change it.
I think this applies to many hobbies and, of course, motoring in general.

 

[Puddleduck]

Before I started looking for the right MH I had already made a specification list for myself of what it should encompass. I recommend doing this, as when you are trawling through adverts, or on forecourts, you soon get to reject the ones that do not match the spec. The second reason is that you can show salesmen the spec,, which has several effects - firstly, they know you are a serious buyer who has done his homework, secondly it saves the salesman's and your time and thirdly he knows that it is no use trying to steer you away from that spec towards just anything he as in stock, because he does not have a match to the spec.

I also made a list of things I did not want - just as useful.

 

[Cheshirecat57]

One thing I might add…..Campervanning/Motorhoming is a but of a “lifestyle concept” thingy
( a bit like an Estate agent placing a bistro table with wine and 2 glasses on a pic of deck)

Im sure if you stopped non-owners in the high street and asked if they woulld want one, a HUGE proportion would say “yes”

Reality of the hobby is a lot different than most outside of it dream it to be

Having said that, thousands love it

 

[jumartoo]

We don't follow the trend. We bought our first (a transit van that we sent to Leisuredrive in Manchester for conversion) in 1994. It was our leisure vehicle and also our only runabout. It eventually, 1998/99/2000, towed a caravan to Spain/Portugal, where we sometimes dumped the caravan and went solo.

Due to "pulling the guts out of a non turbo van" we changed to a VW Reimo conversion. That pulled the caravan with no trouble but we then decided to go on a world backpacking trip, so both caravan and VW were sold.

On our return, in 2003, and spending a lot of time in Spain, we bought a Spanish registered Moncayo, which we had for 10 years and put on a "few" kilometres. We only changed this vehicle to our present one when we saw it for sale at a ("couldn't resist") price, parked on a carpark on a nearby Brit urbanisation. It had a garage, and that was our priority for the next vehicle. We bought it, and sold our other van quickly.

Now ... we have had some problems with this van, twice in Norway, of all places, but we're still happy with it, and, because it does everything we want, we're not (seriously) looking to change.

Soooo, getting back to the OP, WE don't change our vans regularly

 

[eddie]

1988 at the tender age of 28 Lyn my wife and I bought our first motorhome, a Autohomes Highwayman, shiny and new straight from the showroom!

Since then we have bought too many vans

Autohomes Highwayman (Back door no use for bike racks)
Swift Kon Tiki (wasn't an RV)
Gulf Stream Ultra 28' (Wanted an A Class)
Rexhall Airex 28' (Loved it wanted a bigger A class)
Georgie Boy Cruise Master 32' (Loved it wanted a bigger A class)
Georgie Boy Cruise Master 36' (Liked it, realised the dealer had missed out on options we wanted)
Georgie Boy Cruise Master 36' (Loved it, children starting to grow up and not come all the time)
Benimar Europe Top 24' (wrong options)
Benimar Europe Top 24' (right options, too small)
Dethleffs Globetrotter XXXL 30' (Gutless wouldn't two a 27' RIB)
R Vision Condor 28' (Towed well, shit build)
Winnebago Minnie Winnie 30' (towed well, great build, fancied another A class)
Gulfstream Sun Voyager 33' (OK quite enjoyed it, decided to downsize)
Currently a Thor Windsport 29' (Current van still enjoying it)

So 14 motorhomes in 32 years, loved every minute of it all

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