Motorhome Rear Axle Overloaded

[frogijock]

Many years ago I was buying a Laika in France, asked salesman re payload, He replied “ it is a 4 berth, so takes 4 people plus 1 suitcase each person, and whatever else you want to take” needless to say did not buy van

 

[hilldweller]

But the rear axle with a max of 2000kg weighs 1720kg when empty. So adding 160kg of stuff in the garage

For those who have not done the sums, they might think 2000 - 1729 = 280 payload.

But no no no, the payload in the garage has leverage on to the back axle which could double load on to the back axle. Just depends on how near the end the overhang+wheelbase. Jim's figure of 160kg may be right, he may have the dimensions.

And it gets even more interesting, as you push down on the back axle by the 280kg you take load of weight off the front axle - it's a see-saw.

 

[Jim]

For those who have not done the sums, they might think 2000 - 1729 = 280 payload.

But no no no, the payload in the garage has leverage on to the back axle which could double load on to the back axle. Just depends on how near the and the overhang+wheelbase. @Jim's figure of 160kg may be right, he may have the dimensions.

Yes, everything that goes between the axles will be adding some weight to the rear axle, the items behind the rear axle will apply more "weight" than they actually weigh.

 

[hilldweller]

Yes, everything that goes between the axles will be adding some weight to the rear axle, the items behind the rear axle will apply more "weight" than they actually weigh.

Just for a bit of fun, assume 3m wheel base and 2m to rear.

You sling 100kg on the back ( a small bike ).
Torque from front axel = 3+2 * 100 = 500 units
Load on to back axle = 500 / 3 = 166kg.

Front.
Torque = 2 x 100 = 200
Load on front axle is 200 / 3 = 166kg -- OFF the front axle.

This where rear overload is a killer, you are taking weight off the front which with a FWD is not a good thing as you fail to drive off that wet grass.

 

[gus-lopez]

Our ford tranny has a 2250kg rear axle weight (1850kg front).
plated at 3500.
Only 6m long with small outside locker at rear.

Are we Over specced.?

Mines the same but plated at 3,3T. When I eventually go home I will be getting it uprated to the maximum ,4,1T, both axles .Not that I am ever likely to manage to overload it.

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[tonyidle]

as you fail to drive off that wet grass

............................ or more importantly go straight on at the first wet bend in the road.

 

[Langtoftlad]

And the customer has the licence for it !

...hence my "but that obviously depends on whether that's acceptable to the customer."

 

[Clickem]

Just for a bit of fun, assume 3m wheel base and 2m to rear.

You sling 100kg on the back ( a small bike ).
Torque from front axel = 3+2 * 100 = 500 units
Load on to back axle = 500 / 3 = 166kg.

Front.
Torque = 2 x 100 = 200
Load on front axle is 200 / 3 = 166kg -- OFF the front axle.

I agree that the extra load on the rear axle would be 166kgs. But this is made up of the bike (100kgs) and the counter weight lifted off the front axle, which is 66kgs (not 166kgs)

 

[hilldweller]

I agree that the extra load on the rear axle would be 166kgs. But this is made up of the bike (100kgs) and the counter weight lifted off the front axle, which is 66kgs (not 166kgs)

Oops. I had written 200 / 3 and stuck a 1 in front of the answer.

Thank you.

 

[maison]

Our next door neighbour, having spent time looking at our (then) motorhome decided to buy one.

He brought it home and proudly showed it off to us. I asked him what the plated weight was and he was totally confused. We checked the plate and it was 3650kgs.

Knowing that he was 72 years old I asked him about a C1 licence. He didn’t understand why I was asking.

When the penny dropped he was angry that, at no time, did the salesman mention any licence requirement.

I know the expression “buyer beware” but my neighbour looks his age. I still don’t know the final outcome for him. He is arguing with the dealer as to who is responsible for the situation.

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[peterc10]

Just for a bit of fun, assume 3m wheel base and 2m to rear.

You sling 100kg on the back ( a small bike ).
Torque from front axel = 3+2 * 100 = 500 units
Load on to back axle = 500 / 3 = 166kg.

Front.
Torque = 2 x 100 = 200
Load on front axle is 200 / 3 = 166kg -- OFF the front axle.

This where rear overload is a killer, you are taking weight off the front which with a FWD is not a good thing as you fail to drive off that wet grass.

Not quite. The 100kg bike will add 166kg on to the back axle and take 66kg off the front axle. The total of both axles will always increase by the 100kg weight of the bike wherever it is positioned.

 

[Rosemary1]

BIG garages can be dangerous, some people think they can just fill them with all sorts of junk, I wonder how often they have a clear out and think do they really need this or that, its so easy to keep adding and adding, should be a rule one thing in one thing out, I am just as bad before anyone has a go

We often have a clear out and sertainly at the end of the season the lot comes out and everything is reviewed. It’s surprising how often we are carrying around “stuff” which we never use. Must admit sometimes we do actually need an item which has been transferred to garage but there you go.

 

[thebriars]

Learned a little more. The dealer made much of the garage 250kg capacity, just right for a family with kids. But the rear axle with a max of 2000kg weighs 1720kg when empty. So adding 160kg of stuff in the garage, along with passengers and their allowances within, and the axle overloads by 100kg

Then the Consumer Rights Act 2015 comes into force with goods not as described. (Section 11)

Any information that is provided by the trader about the goods and is information mentioned in paragraph (a) of Schedule 1 or 2 to the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 (SI 2013/3134) (main characteristics of goods) is to be treated as included as a term of the contract.

 

[cruiser]

As it has been said. We saw a salesman trying to sell a very large MAN truck style motorhome to a very old man. About my age. I am 74. The chap was going to buy it. Untill a funster told him about the weight lts. The salesman was still saying he could drive it. We told him he needed a class 2 licence to drive it. One of my sons Has a PSV licence . And he drives D/D buses And long coaches . But because of his age he still can not drive anything larger than a 3.5 ton motorhome.

 

[Spriddler]

I think many problems arise from people demanding more from there motorhome nowadays. Essentials seem to be solar panels, extra batteries, satellite system, large TV, air conditioning, large fridge freezer, etc, etc, etc. All motorhomes under 3.5 ton are only a small delivery van with a huge body.

Exactly. Modern motorhomes seem to have so many cupboards and units inside that they end up with just a couple of tiny windows. I love my 25 yr old m/h with a large long window each side.

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[Westerham Womble]

We originally purchased a Carthago on a “light “ Alko chassis up plated from 3500 to 3850kg which has a 2000kg rear axle weight limit. Went to a weighbridge 6 months after buying having no previous concerns and we were overweight on the rear axle, emptied everything out at the roadside and completely empty, apart from 30litres of water and a 90% full diesel tank it weighed 1860kg.
So with clothes in cupboards we could fit one toilet roll in the garage without going over the limit.
Went back to dealer, we had bought new, they took a lot of persuading but did eventually offer us a full refund against a “heavy “ Alko chassis version of the same model they had in stock.
If the people who contacted you Jim are in a similar position then my advice would be to persevere, know your rights and keep polite but firm in your dealings. Also keep copies of all dealings.
Best of luck

 

[Wagoneer]

I seem to remember SVTech use a formula (or rule of thumb) to limit the amount of weight taken off the front axle when they upgrade the rear axle permissible load.

It would be interesting to know how much lightening of the front axle is acceptable without affecting steering.

For example, based on a 4250kg chassis (2100 front/2400 rear). My front axle is 1750kg in full touring trim. This is 350kg less than the permissible front axle load. This axle weight imbalance (1750kg front/2400kg rear) does lead to some rather interesting skittish steering behaviour when overtaking lorries, especially in windy conditions. This may be normal but wouldn't want to have less weight over the front axle.

 

[Jim]

This axle weight imbalance (1750kg front/2400kg rear) does lead to some rather interesting skittish steering behaviour when overtaking lorries, especially in windy conditions.

I had a Bessacar, we loved it but it had a massive rear overhang, when we were loaded (overloaded) I'm sure you'd be able to slide a fag paper under the front drive wheels

 

[bellabee]

We have a 7m Hymer B588 DL - a 4-berth van, originally plated at 3500, with twin singles over a large garage. At 7m, the overhang isn't particularly long.

We took it to the weighbridge with 50% water, a full tank of diesel, clothes, food, books etc sufficient for eg an extended stay in Spain, 2 medium-sized adults and a 30kg dog.

In the garage, we had 2 bikes, table and 2 chairs, Camping gaz cylinder for Safari Chef, a large sack of dog food, and various odds and sods such as cleaning products, watering can, hose, and several bottles of water masquerading as bottles of wine.

Underfloor storage compartments (including one in the passenger foot well (LHD), and side lockers are large enough for storage of several bottles of wine, electric reel, safari chef, and tool kit.

We have a 2nd leisure battery, but no awning.

The weighbridge reading showed us to be 20kg overweight, and with 40kg to spare on the rear axle.

We have up-rated to 3850 in order to give us the confidence to be within legal limits. My OH will be 70 next year and, although we don't anticipate any problems, we could down-plate again, if need be, so long as we were careful. (Alternatively, I could become the driver )

In conclusion, this van works well for 2 people, but would be nigh on impossible for 4, particularly if a bike rack were fitted in order to carry extra bikes.

 

[pandas]

Just for a bit of fun, assume 3m wheel base and 2m to rear.

You sling 100kg on the back ( a small bike ).
Torque from front axel = 3+2 * 100 = 500 units
Load on to back axle = 500 / 3 = 166kg.

Front.
Torque = 2 x 100 = 200
Load on front axle is 200 / 3 = 166kg -- OFF the front axle.

This where rear overload is a killer, you are taking weight off the front which with a FWD is not a good thing as you fail to drive off that wet grass.

A small bike:

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[pandas]

We have a 7m Hymer B588 DL - a 4-berth van, originally plated at 3500, with twin singles over a large garage. At 7m, the overhang isn't particularly long.

We took it to the weighbridge with 50% water, a full tank of diesel, clothes, food, books etc sufficient for eg an extended stay in Spain, 2 medium-sized adults and a 30kg dog.

In the garage, we had 2 bikes, table and 2 chairs, Camping gaz cylinder for Safari Chef, a large sack of dog food, and various odds and sods such as cleaning products, watering can, hose, and several bottles of water masquerading as bottles of wine.

Underfloor storage compartments (including one in the passenger foot well (LHD), and side lockers are large enough for storage of several bottles of wine, electric reel, safari chef, and tool kit.

We have a 2nd leisure battery, but no awning.

The weighbridge reading showed us to be 20kg overweight, and with 40kg to spare on the rear axle.

We have up-rated to 3850 in order to give us the confidence to be within legal limits. My OH will be 70 next year and, although we don't anticipate any problems, we could down-plate again, if need be, so long as we were careful. (Alternatively, I could become the driver )

In conclusion, this van works well for 2 people, but would be nigh on impossible for 4, particularly if a bike rack were fitted in order to carry extra bikes.

Bottle of wine 1.25kg, litre of water 1kg so 50% of fresh water (capacity of 150 L) = 75 kg so the Hymer average touring recommended capacity of fresh water of 20 L would give you your required weight.

 

[CazPaul]

Our rear axle weighed up as 2200kg, sh-t I thought until I saw the 3100kg maximum weight on the rear, a nice 900kg to play with.

 

[596]

Our rear axle weighed up as 2200kg, sh-t I thought until I saw the 3100kg maximum weight on the rear, a nice 900kg to play with.

What load rated tyres do you have on the rear axle?

This chart shows you the load rating for tyres, so say for example your axle weight was 3,000 kg then the MINIMUM load rated per tyre would be a 122 as that takes 1,500kg per tyre totalling 3,000 on the axle ?

 

[Two on Tour]

Our rear axle weighed up as 2200kg, sh-t I thought until I saw the 3100kg maximum weight on the rear, a nice 900kg to play with.

The advantage of having 4 wheels on the back axle instead of 2.

 

[funflair]

BUT some sites won’t have you, was just booking Welsh sites and quite a few said no twin axles, some even said no O/S opening doors, so no continentals!

Ah but, 4 wheels on a single axle is fine and much better option

Martin

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[RowleyBirkinQC]

We have a 7m Hymer B588 DL - a 4-berth van, originally plated at 3500, with twin singles over a large garage. At 7m, the overhang isn't particularly long.

We recently changed to the 7m Hymer Exsis-I 588 at 3500, payload claimed to be 660kg, mostly to accommodate 2 adults and 3 dogs (but those dogs are ageing ).

We do have an awning, comfort pack, solar, satellite, 2 batteries etc (no UK or Tektronix oven though), we obviously know the reality differs to that claimed on paper. But we’ve been nicely surprised so far with payload/rear axle loads after having only selectively loaded the stuff we knew we used regularly after the initial vehicle exchange.

However, we also know we have been and are adding to that initial stuff, such as spare alloy wheel and 2 new bicycles kitted out with lights, mudguards etc (11.4 kg & 11.8 kg respectively), so we will need another weighbridge visitation to see where we are at in total and at the rear end. But at least we are not consumed by any precursory feeling of dread (just yet), this van seems workable for us and we have tactical options available if needed (e.g. remove wind out awning, uprate if we have to).

We are also fortunate in that we have easy access to a local weighbridge to keep an eye on how bloated we’re getting.

Also never been asked or denied access to campsite based on hab door being on the continental side.

 

[Two on Tour]

Apologies the reply should have been to CasPauls, but interesting anyway these are banned.

No need to apologise, I assumed that as you had queried the load rating on CasPaul's tyres to achieve his rear axle rating that you were not aware of his van having 4 wheels on a single axle and I for my part should have stated it was on a single axle rather than "the axle".

 

[funflair]

BUT some sites won’t have you, was just booking Welsh sites and quite a few said no twin axles, some even said no O/S opening doors, so no continentals!

Only two axles, can't get much less than that and still drive it

Martin

 

[596]

The first site clearly states they do not accept continental caravans, the second clearly states in the 3rd to last paragraph “Caravans with the door on the right/hand side are not permitted, and the last one shows there clearly is a problem or they would not ask you to call them. I saw others when I was booking last night but these are just examples, there is something about right hand doors and if it relates to a caravan what is different to a Motorhome they can both go in either way?

I can only share what I have seen and it is in clear writing on the screenshots I posted above! And yes one was in Nottinghamshire to show its not just Wales and one showing the Caravan and Camping Club so spread across the lot!

 

[596]

Only two axles, can't get much less than that and still drive it

Martin

Have you not seen the new Unihome?

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