Morrisons and LPG

I remember seeing the story when it happened about a month ago but can't recall whether it was on a thread on here or elsewhere (maybe Facebook).

As the photo Here shows, the filler point appears to be in the locker door and the hose arrangement looks (shall we say) not quite as safe as it might be :Smile:
 
GJH said:
As the photo Here shows, the filler point appears to be in the locker door and the hose arrangement looks (shall we say) not quite as safe as it might be :Smile:
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It doesn't look like a well fitted system that's for sure. Difficult to see the make of the gas bottle and lots of loose hose.

It would be nice to know more - the type of system and who fitted it for starters.
 
Does look a bit rough but might have looked better before the fire
 
Puddleduck said:
It doesn't look like a well fitted system that's for sure. [HI]Difficult to see the make of the gas bottle[/HI] and lots of loose hose.

It would be nice to know more - the type of system and who fitted it for starters.
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It looks like dry powder extinguishing has been used on it but there is less powder at the bottom of the bottle, which appears to be yellow. There appears to be some (black) branding marks on a level with the orange reflector but it is indistinct.
 
I think you are correct Graham. Yellow cylinder.

They had a lucky escape.

Wonder who fitted it?

The damage probably looks worse than it is because of the powder residue.

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some fittings go straight on to the bottle so no hose etc to cause a problem . no worse than fitting a regulator .solid brass or steel from start to finish .
 
tonyidle said:
From what little information I've seen on the Internet and in the press Morrisons (and others) will only allow LPG filling via an external fill point. No one can determine from outside the vehicle what it will be used for and it may be mis-reported by the Press that fuel for propulsion is filled via a fill point and fuel for domestic use is from refillable cylinders.

The gist of Morrisons "ban" is that external fillers are allowed but filling ANY bottle is not. This simplistic instruction to their staff is so that if no bottle can be filled then unsafe bottles with no cut-off cannot be filled. Filling station staff do not, therefore, have to know the difference between the two types of bottle. It would be expensive and unreasonable to have to train them to understand and therefore be able to spot the difference and equally unreasonable for them to be trained to inspect any Certification documents.
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The author of the letter is a close friend and has a Gaslow system with an external filler but was refused, she then wrote to head office asking an explanation being a very regular Morrisons Customer and received the letter as published from them.

Interestingly not all Morrisons fuel stations seem to follow the head office guidelines and many allow Motorhomes to fill up.? :Eeek:
 
I posted the photos of the van that was involved in the fire incident when it happened. you can clearly see that this was caused by a bad installation. with the filler in the door and an extra long flexible hose connected to it, it was bound to fail in time. a proper install should allow for the filler to be mounted in a fixed, not a moving position and all hoses should be secured to prevent fatigue caused by constant movement

the issue with amateurs doing a DIY gas or electric install is that they dont understand all the risks.

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gaslow them selves put the filler in the door seen it loads of times . mind their bfittings are crap. and there bottles . know many that have had to return bottles for failing .
 
dave newell lvs said:
Why use a petrol station of any brand? I use our local LPG bulk supplier who have an Autogas pump in their yard. As they sell LPG for domestic fuel they are already setup to charge the correct VAT rates, in fact if you tell them its for domestic fuel they only charge 5% VAT and don't include the road fuel duty either.

D.
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Buggered if I can find a bulk supplier within 20 odd miles from me :Sad:
Would use them like a shot if it was an option.
 
got one at the end of my road .
its far better to live in a little village in the middle of nowhere .
by the way its not far from the railway station .
could live in a city and be further away from a railway station . ha ha
 
vwalan said:
got one at the end of my road .
its far better to live in a little village in the middle of nowhere .
by the way its not far from the railway station .
could live in a city and be further away from a railway station . ha ha
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What's a railway station ? :Blush: :BigGrin:
 
well ok train station . never use it but its nice to know its there . can get all over most of the world on a train .
mind rather it was my truck or my m,bike .

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dave nwell lvs said:
Why use a petrol station of any brand? I use our local LPG bulk supplier who have an Autogas pump in their yard. As they sell LPG for domestic fuel they are already setup to charge the correct VAT rates, in fact if you tell them its for domestic fuel they only charge 5% VAT and don't include the road fuel duty either.
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Hi Dave,

I can't find any bulk gas supplier other than Countrywide, who will sell Autogas at the 5% domestic VAT rate. Flogas only did it for a relatively short period, but have stopped now, and Calor won't entertain it.

Regards,

Jock.
 
if you have an account with calor you should be able to get it i do.
 
vwalan said:
some fittings go straight on to the bottle so no hose etc to cause a problem . no worse than fitting a regulator .solid brass or steel from start to finish .
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This is for filling cylinders, rather than professionally fixed permanent installations?
If it's for cylinders, are we talking both Gas and Petroleum industry approved equipment, or mickey mouse non approved kit, which in either case the fuel companies generally don't allow at petrol stations?
 
TheBig1 said:
.............. the issue with amateurs doing a DIY gas or electric install is that they dont understand all the risks.
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I bought my van at the end of last year from a well-known dealer. Before I collected it a full base vehicle and habitation service had been performed. It passed the gas testing with an advisory "gas bottles too large for locker". The system fitted was Gaslow comprising two 11Kg 'bottles', an auto changeover device, and a filler fitted in the wall of the van just forward of the gas locker. All hose connections were stainless braided and the changeover device and regulator were mounted on a single bracket and were connected by solid fittings rather than hose.

The back wall of the gas locker slopes towards the outside of the vehicle from around two-thirds of the height of the locker. The locker door swings upward and the upstand at the front of the locker floor is hinged so bottles can be changed by dropping the upstand rather than lifting the bottles over it. So far so good. The entire installation was, to be kind, crowded. The 'bottles' sloped outward because their upper parts were in contact with the rear wall of the locker. The hinged upstand had had its latches replaced by self-tapping screws (one of which wasn't stripped) because the 'bottles' were pressing hard against it and had broken the latches. The changeover device & regulator were zip-tied to the handle of one of the 'bottles'. The braided hoses, being standard lengths, were all so long that they had been forced into whatever space was available and zip-tied in place.

Initially I tried to straighten things up by cutting all the zip ties and moving / rotating the 'bottles' to better use up some of the excess hose. All I managed to do was create a gas leak in the locker. The problem wasn't over-large 'bottles' but it was over-long hoses exacerbated by the handles on the 'bottles' which forced all hoses to leave the top of each 'bottle' in one direction. I had noticed that recent Gaslow 'bottles' don't have the large ring-of-steel handles around the gas valve so I cut mine so that the top of them was below the valve outlet so the hoses could leave the top of the 'bottle' in any direction (one 'bottle' has filler, filler link & outlet hoses and the other has filler link and outlet hoses). I separated the changeover device & regulator and re-mounted the regulator in its original position back on the locker wall. By creating smooth, symmetrical, curves in the various hoses I was able to replace them so they weren't under any stress and doing so allowed the 'bottles' to stand vertical and clear of the hinged upstand at the front of the locker floor. Which meant I could retain the 11Kg 'bottles'.

The leak I caused? Two of the hose connections were cross-threaded, had been bodged with PTFE tape, and weren't in contact with the internal sealing washer. And didn't like me disturbing them. This system had been ordered by the previous owner of the motorhome. It had been installed by qualified professionals (I have the original invoice and gas certificate) and was tested by another qualified professional just before I bought it. Trust no-one. Learn enough to do your own visual checks and learn how to test for gas leaks.
 
JockandRita said:
Hi Dave,

I can't find any bulk gas supplier other than Countrywide, who will sell Autogas at the 5% domestic VAT rate. Flogas only did it for a relatively short period, but have stopped now, and Calor won't entertain it.

Regards,

Jock.
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Local to us is Budget Gas, 1 mile from workshop, 2 miles from home. They do sell Autogas at domestic duty rates if you tell them when you go to pay for it. I wouldn't go far out of my way to use a bulk supplier but it may be possible to plan it into a journey. Google search for bulk LPG suppliers in your region, you may find one.

D.

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dave newell lvs said:
Have a look on here http://www.lpguk.info for local bulk gas suppliers.

D.
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That site seems to be concerned with domestic supplies, Dave, rather than non-forecourt stations. Budget Gas were very helpful when we filled up for the first time but, unfortunately, there is nothing similar in our area.

The problem I've found, in general, with Internet LPG directories (and POI sets) is that they are not kept up to date. Many still list Teesside Calor Centre which was demolished, never mind closed, several years ago. I have forecourt and non-forecourt POI sets on the sat nav but have found that inaccuracy makes it dangerous to rely on them if levels are getting low.

We have an independent garage not far away where we fill up before trips when necessary. Whilst away we tend to just look out for places if we have used enough to make it worthwhile filling up.
 
GJH said:
That site seems to be concerned with domestic supplies, Dave, rather than non-forecourt stations. Budget Gas were very helpful when we filled up for the first time but, unfortunately, there is nothing similar in our area.

The problem I've found, in general, with Internet LPG directories (and POI sets) is that they are not kept up to date. Many still list Teesside Calor Centre which was demolished, never mind closed, several years ago. I have forecourt and non-forecourt POI sets on the sat nav but have found that inaccuracy makes it dangerous to rely on them if levels are getting low.

We have an independent garage not far away where we fill up before trips when necessary. Whilst away we tend to just look out for places if we have used enough to make it worthwhile filling up.
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Fair comment Graham, but I posted that link simply as a starting point of how to find out IF there is a bulk gas supplier in any given area. I would have thought the more rural areas might have a better range of bulk gas suppliers as there is surely a higher percentage of homes without mains gas?

Whether or not there is a BGS in your area why worry about Morrisons? There are plenty of other fuel stations that sell LPG Autogas.

D.

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vwalan said:
if you have an account with calor you should be able to get it i do.
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Calor sent me away with a flea in my ear when I went to fill my Gaslow system, external fill point and relevent paperwork :Sad:
 
jockaneezer said:
Calor sent me away with a flea in my ear when I went to fill my Gaslow system, external fill point and relevent paperwork :Sad:
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I haven't needed paperwork anywhere - including at the local (Kendal, Cumbria) Calor gas depot. Their LPG is usually the cheapest available locally.
 
I just happened to have the paperwork with me in the van. Guy was filling up a car in front of me, looked over his shoulder and said “ You aint filling that here” wouldn’t give me a reason. I offered him the paperwork and he said no and started to walk away. Didn’t bother to argue the toss as he was serving the guy in front, just made a point of not giving Calor any of my business since.
 
johnp10 said:
This is for filling cylinders, rather than professionally fixed permanent installations?
If it's for cylinders, are we talking both Gas and Petroleum industry approved equipment, or mickey mouse non approved kit, which in either case the fuel companies generally don't allow at petrol stations?
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hi gasit do bottle refilladaptors for their bottles http://www.gasit.co.uk/index.php?_a=category&cat_id=2
these dont have any pigtails etc . seems a resonable bit of kit .
i imagine they are approved by someone .
 
jockaneezer said:
I just happened to have the paperwork with me in the van. Guy was filling up a car in front of me, looked over his shoulder and said “ You aint filling that here” wouldn’t give me a reason. I offered him the paperwork and he said no and started to walk away. Didn’t bother to argue the toss as he was serving the guy in front, just made a point of not giving Calor any of my business since.
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Don't blame you :Angry:

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