Tow ball fitting to a PVC , any ideas please

Discussion in 'Tech/Mech General' started by Nirvanauk, Jul 5, 2012.

  1. Nirvanauk

    Nirvanauk Funster

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    Hi,
    I want to be able to put a small motorbike on the back of my Renault Master PVC .
    Tow ball Express gave me a quote but as soon as they found out that it was a motorhome they backed out due to the complexity of fitting the electrics.

    Has anyone on here done this to a van conversion? The payload seems fine as total weight of bike and rack is 125kgs.

    Any suggestions would be appreciated.

    Many thanks
     
  2. old-mo

    old-mo Funster Extra Special Life Member

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    Not fitted one...

    But the electrics shouldn`t cause a problem... They only have to take a spur off each individual light cluster at the back...

    Or am I missing some thing..?

    Get them to put an ordinary 7 pin socket and then all you need is a lighting board with a seven pin Plug on a short`ish lead.. plug the lighting/number plate board in bungy it on the bike frame somewhere and you should be sorted..:thumb:
     
  3. Johns_Cross_Motorhomes

    Johns_Cross_Motorhomes Trader - Motorhome & Accessory Sales

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  4. Nirvanauk

    Nirvanauk Funster

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    Thanks for that.
    Thinking about this a bit further, do I actually need electrics? The moped on this rack will not protrude any further than the fiamma bike rack I currently have with 2 bikes on the back and this has no electrics.
    Cheers.
     
  5. scotjimland

    scotjimland Funster Life Member

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    Not required if the van lights and number plate are not obscured .. but it may be worth while having them fitted for future use, perhaps pulling a small trailer .. then again, not hard to fit later..
     
  6. TheBig1

    TheBig1 Funster Life Member

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    Its actually a simple enough DIY job to fit a bar and electrics to a PVC, and I have done several over the years. The bar simply goes together like mechano and bolts to the existing holes in the chassis. the electrics, you can get a kit that simply plugs in underneath the back end or behind the light clusters. Should take no more than 2-3 hours if your not experienced less if you are

    PWS in Poole charge an absolute fortune, but the towbar centre about a mile away are very fast and efficient. They built and installed the custom bar for my coachbuilt including electrics for £350, PWS wanted over £1000

    Any local towbar fitter will be able to do the job, so phone around a few for quotes.
     
  7. bigmillie

    bigmillie Read Only Funster

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    Do not forget to check rear loading for your MH

    A1 = existing front axle load
    (before adding on the new rear load)
    A2 = existing rear axle load
    (before adding on the new rear load)
    L = weight of new rear load
    W = wheelbase (the distance between the front and rear axle centre-lines)
    O = overhang (the distance from the rear axle centre to the centre of mass of the new rear load).
    Add the figure for the new rear load, and carry out the following calculations:
    New front axle load (new A1) = A1 – [L x (O ÷ W)]
    New rear axle load (new A2) = A2 + L + (A1 – new A1).


    For example, take a ’van with a current front axle load (A1) of 1500kg and a rear axle load (A2) of 2000kg (see diagram). The scooter and its rack have a total mass of 150kg, the vehicle’s wheelbase (W) is 3000mm and the overhang (O) is 1000mm. Put those figures into the above equations and the new front axle load will be: 1500kg – [150 x (1000 ÷ 3000)]. This works out at 1500 – 49.95 which is a new front axle load of 1450.05kg. Now that we have a new A1 figure, we can move on to the second calculation to get the new rear axle load: 2000 + 150 + (1500 – 1450.05) is a new load of 2199.95kg. In other words, the scooter and rack would add nearly 200kg to the back axle, while taking almost 50kg off the front axle.

    You will need to compare these figures to the maximum axle loadings shown on the vehicle plate. If your new rear axle load is greater than that on the plate, then you cannot fit the rack and motor scooter.

    http://www.practicalmotorhome.com/advice/safe-loading-and-payloads
     

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  8. Terry

    Terry Funster

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    Hi it should make no difference to the instillation of a tow bar --ALL YOUR VAN ELECTRICS SHOULD STAY THE SAME :thumb:The conversion side should have it's own electrics that should not inter act with the vans normal electrics --if you get my drift.
    terry
     
  9. Nirvanauk

    Nirvanauk Funster

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    Thanks for all your comments.

    The problem now seems to be down weight! All seem to have a towing capacity of 2,500 kgs however they seem to have a downweight max of 100kgs. The bike weighs 100 kgs and the ramp weighs 25kgs so this would cancel my insurance policy.
    Any thoughts?
     
  10. Terry

    Terry Funster

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    Hi you have lost me :Smile:I think the best bet would be for you to go to a weigh bridge as Charlie (bigmillie) advisers and take things from there :thumb:Never heard of anyone having insurance invalidated for being 25kgs overweight :Wink:
    terry
     
  11. Nirvanauk

    Nirvanauk Funster

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    The problem seems to be with the down weight maximum of the tow ball. All seem to be set to 100kgs.
     
  12. vwalan

    vwalan Funster

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    but most carriers dont put anything on the tow ball . surely the racks fit to the tow bar . with a bolted plate . some you can still tow with a m,bike on the rack. certanly can my kliponoff.
     
  13. Nirvanauk

    Nirvanauk Funster

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    Never thought of that I'll check it out.
     
  14. Nirvanauk

    Nirvanauk Funster

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    Think that I'm slowly getting my head around this. Spoke to a very helpful person at Towtal. Evidently if it is a coachbuilt it has been modified as such and therefore it can have a customised tow bar fitted. If it is a PVC and therefore a manufacturers standard build it cannot have a modified towbar fitted and is subject to this manufacturers standard which seems to have a standard nose weight of 100kgs, this I imagine would be the same for all vans wether it be Renault/fiat/Citroen, etc.

    I think I've got this right but would love to be told that I haven't!! Cos at this rate I'm not having a moped on the back!
     
  15. Geo

    Geo Trader - Funster

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    I suggest your asking the wrong people the wrong questions
    For example Easy lifter motorbike carriers will sell you a clip on/of carrier that fits all standard tow bars and carries a 200Kg load
    Geo
    as a matter of interest is your vehicle described as an M1 type approved in your V5
     
  16. vwalan

    vwalan Funster

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    we know where you are coming from geo. lets hope it not an ,M.
    mind it could be a,N.
     
  17. Nirvanauk

    Nirvanauk Funster

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    Hi, my first point of contact was easylifter. Their ramps are rated for 200kgs but that doesn't help if the towbar is only rated for 100. I'm waiting to talk to them again tomorrow.
    Regarding the V5 that's away at dvla at the moment getting the number plates changed.
    Many thanks for your advice.
    P.s. Julie just called from Watling Engineering to say that there isn't a problem custom making a tow bar so I am really confused now!
     
  18. Geo

    Geo Trader - Funster

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    I was alluding to the fact that your vehicle being a commercial van in effect, maybe outside the M1 classification rules and any tow bar may be used maybe Watling beat me to it or suspect the same
    I personally have used and carried a 215KG machine + rack on a standard tow bar plate:Doh:
     
  19. oldun

    oldun Read Only Funster

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    What is the maximum towbar download that Renault specify for the Master?

    I've just got shot of mine but I have the feeling that it was not very high?
     
  20. oldun

    oldun Read Only Funster

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    The Renault Master has a very tiny rear overhang.

    Great whne carrying heavy loads at the rear - bad for turning circle.
     
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