Some more motorhome owners spoiling it for the rest of us! (2 Viewers)

[sdc77]

It would be interesting to know who supplies those automated French aire integrated units and what they cost.

 

[vwalan]

Off site parking or wild camping is an attractive way to motorhome and I aim to do it myself ,but the motorhomers who load up at their local supermarket and head up to these places and don't spend any money with the locals seem to miss the point of enterprise's such as the nc500 and that is to get tourists spending money with local businesses ,if we all went down the freeloader route then sooner or later the whole thing will become regulated

the nc 500 is around and as been always . it was only a money making enterprise . the route as always been there even if nc500 seems to finish you can still go around look see . its nothing fantastic .there are walks and drives all around the uk. the scottish saw a way of earning a shilling ok. good on them for trying .but is it that they are taking away m,homers etc from other areas that might also need the extra money.
its just the world we live in . some make, some lose.
do you really believe that some how the route around scotland could be regulated ?
perhaps adrians wall could be restored and folk pay to go past. ha ha .

 

[Abacist]

I think the height barriers are aimed at the gypsy/traveller groups that suddenly move in and cost councils a lot in legals fees to get rid of them. The inconvenience to other high vehicles is of little interest to the powers that be. Councils also want to deter commercial vehicles from car parks.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[vwalan]

motor homes are part of the traveller world.
we travel.
think like a traveler ,most dont stop in town busy carparks .
untill the m,home world get it that they are part of the travel culture you will feel ostracized by the non travellers .

 

[scotjimland]

the nc 500 is around and as been always . it was only a money making enterprise . the route as always been there even if nc500 seems to finish you can still go around look see . its nothing fantastic

Correct Alan.. it's sole purpose in being given a fancy name was to attract more tourists .. not only motorhomes, but caravans, motorists, bikers, cyclists and walkers..

You can just here them.. "oh lets go and 'do NC500' .. it's sooooo romantic darling.. just like Route66 " .. bollox..

it's a nice route with stunning scenery on the west coast..east and north is bare and barren.. but that can also be attractive..

having been all over Scotland, camping and motorhoming, and been on nearly every road.. it's worth while doing.. but as I said earlier.. making it into a tourist route will IMV eventually destroy it.. it will become commercialised.. busy and clogged up.. and the very thing we want to see will be spoiled..

 

[Dave and Ginny]

We've only just returned from 6 weeks in Scotland and the Northern Isles where we park up, wild it, off grid or whatever else you want to call it. We do it not to save money (although obviously you do) but because of some of the wonderful spots it's possible to haul up at! Every few days we stop at a campsite to use washing machine, at the very least. At one very nice campsite in Shetland the owners have had to resort to putting a padlock on the lid of the chemical disposal point because of cheeky motorhomers just thinking they can pull in and dispose of their waste.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[vwalan]

every country seems to have real great scenery etc if folk just slow down get off the main roads etc .
its just that many seem to want their hands held and be told go left ,go right . stop here ,stop there .
maybe i was lucky but my parents took us on adventures years ago. follow streams ,watch them turn into rivers etc . i live just a short distance from the start of the river fal. yet many even locals dont know its here . yet its the worlds third deepest natural harbour when it reaches the sea . here its just about two foot wide and 2 inches deep.
every where can be lovely . there is an adventure every where .

 

[Lorryman100]

As we live in the Central belt we have done the NC500 many times over the years long before it was trendy and this year have noted just how many motor homes there are on the roads up here just now. It is the caravan that is the lesser spotted species. Currently about to leave Dunnet bay CC site and from were I am sitting I can see about 21 units, of these 21 units there are 6 caravans. The rest are MoHo,s in some shape or form and a tent. As we have been here a couple of days we have been out and about and have noticed quite a few MoHo,s parked up in car parks, road ends etc more so this year than any other that we can recall which surprised us a little as the far N.E. Coast is as flat as a snooker table compared to the rest of Scotland. We are heading over the top to Durness to a little wil camping spot we know about but with the amount of MoHo,s up here we don't expect to be by ourselves. Hopefully all these visitors make a good impact on the local business's and the locals so much so that the local authorities may see the many MoHo visitors as a benefit with the added possibility of more facilities opening up to cater for the extra visitors and the additional incomes those visitors generate. Then again I have a glass half full compared to a glass half empty take on life.

 

[Dave and Ginny]

But I wonder what percentage of the MH's in Scotland are from overseas? We were surprised by the numbers of visitors from Spain, Germany, Netherlands and Italy that we saw on our last trip. In the picture I posted above we were joined later in the day by a couple from Belgium and another family from Germany that have taken a year out to explore europe. It was quite funny, the parking area was quite big and there was a cars space between us and the German van. The Belgium couple turned up and parked in that space! As tight as any Aire I've been on! We all sat outside and shared stories and a glass on a lovely evening .

I always try to speak to a local or two and enquire if it's ok to stop the night. Have never been growled at yet .

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[scotjimland]

In the picture I posted above

Lovely spot.. where is it..

Shetland ?

 

[andy63]

Lovely spot.. where is it..

Shetland ?

Just what I was wondering as well.. looks beautiful...

 

[GJH]

I've only skimmed the posts since my last one because I'm busy but if we are into definitions, the following applies to the UK:
Parking means stopping the vehicle at the roadside or off road and leaving it whilst you do something elsewhere.
As soon as the vehicle is used for any form of habitation the activity is camping (not parking).
Wild camping is strictly non-vehicular.

If people want "aire" type facilities in the UK then it is up to them to make the case for them to the owners of the land involved (be they councils or private landlords) because the de facto situation is that there is no such case apparent. If there were then private businesses would be falling over themselves to make profits and councils would as well because of the massive economic benefits their areas would enjoy

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[iandsm]

I've only skimmed the posts since my last one because I'm busy but if we are into definitions, the following applies to the UK:
Parking means stopping the vehicle at the roadside or off road and leaving it whilst you do something elsewhere.
As soon as the vehicle is used for any form of habitation the activity is camping (not parking).
Wild camping is strictly non-vehicular.

If people want "aire" type facilities in the UK then it is up to them to make the case for them to the owners of the land involved (be they councils or private landlords) because the de facto situation is that there is no such case apparent. If there were then private businesses would be falling over themselves to make profits and councils would as well because of the massive economic benefits their areas would enjoy

Not disagreeing with you but wondering where the two definitions originated from. I would be interested to know if the second definition is defined in UK statute

 

[GJH]

Not disagreeing with you but wondering where the two definitions originated from. I would be interested to know if the second definition is defined in UK statute

Yes, Caravan Sites and Control of Development Act 1960 S1(4) - "the expression “caravan site” means land on which a caravan is stationed for the purposes of human habitation and land which is used in conjunction with land on which a caravan is so stationed."
That means that as soon as a caravan (including a motor caravan) starts to be used for habitation the land it is on is subject to the provisions of the Act and is, thus, not simply parking.

The 1960 Act applies to off road land, highways being subject to separate legislation, see here and here.

 

[GJH]

I think the height barriers are aimed at the gypsy/traveller groups that suddenly move in and cost councils a lot in legals fees to get rid of them. The inconvenience to other high vehicles is of little interest to the powers that be. Councils also want to deter commercial vehicles from car parks.

Some height barriers are there to deter travellers and some to deter commercial vehicles from clogging up shopper/commuter spaces. However, others are there to deter all large vehicles because the car park is not suitable for them (e.g. tight maneuvering or built only for use by vehicles of less than 2 tonnes).

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[pyro]

Posts crossed

I also strongly suspect the principle reason for installing crude height barriers is more to do with excluding travellers and restricting access to any heavy commercial vehicles parking up for the night than specifically excluding motorhomes desperate for the occasional overnight stop. The increasing popularity of motorhomes and the benefits of encouraging local tourism seem to lie far beyond the ken of your average local authority

I think people tend to put all those who live on the road into much the same basket, and the dominant perception seems to be that we are all loosely associated with itinerants and (shudder at the thought) "bloody foreigners".

I asked around, and people have told me that whilst they unanimously regard those using a commercial site as legitimate campers (motorhomers/caravanners), they start to grow more than a little uneasy when they see a motorhome parked up on it's own or accompanied by one or two others in a layby or in the corner of a field. Especially if they see people helping themselves to water, using the hedgerows as toilets, seeing washing hung out to dry, bonfires, kids and dogs running around and rubbish blowing about.

The CC & other organisations who should be representing the "camping" fraternity beyond simply providing (to me) unappetising regimented sites should, at least in my view, be doing far more to promote the more positive aspects of our lifestyles. However, they draw their funding from membership and site operations, so they have no financial incentive in promoting independent tourism/"wild camping" (by whatever name it is given) to the public. There is a need, in my view, for effective lobbying of local authorities, land owners and the like, as well as a robust public relations strategy

Anyway, just my opinion. This debate alone is worth the subscription fee to MHF

 

[Dave and Ginny]

It's Latheronwheel Old Harbour and yes it's a lovely spot. We just stopped for lunch and ended up staying until the next day.

 

[scotjimland]

We just stopped for lunch and ended up staying until the next day.

bl00dy freeloader

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[GJH]

The increasing popularity of motorhomes and the benefits of encouraging local tourism seem to lie far beyond the ken of your average local authority

LAs may not all be aware of the increasing popularity of motorhomes but those which include tourist areas probably are.
The benefits of encouraging local tourism are certainly known to those LAs which include tourist areas.
However, most car parks pre-date that increasing popularity and many are not suitable for large/heavy vehicle use.

One aspect that many LAs are not aware of is the economic benefit of providing overnight camping facilities in their car parks. That is not at all surprising because the overwhelming majority of motorhomers are unable to detail such economic benefit (even where it exists).

 

[DuxDeluxe]

LAs may not all be aware of the increasing popularity of motorhomes but those which include tourist areas probably are.
The benefits of encouraging local tourism are certainly known to those LAs which include tourist areas.
However, most car parks pre-date that increasing popularity and many are not suitable for large/heavy vehicle use.

One aspect that many LAs are not aware of is the economic benefit of providing overnight camping facilities in their car parks. That is not at all surprising because the overwhelming majority of motorhomers are unable to detail such economic benefit (even where it exists).

Unfortunately, there are a percentage who drive up, parkup and then move on to the next stop without contributing to the local economy......

 

[Lot lover]

Which came first, the motorhome or a place to park it?

Possible scenario - LA is in an area with potential as a tourist hot spot. Decides to provide site for "n" caravans, MHs and tents. What chance that the local NIMBYs object to an influx of visitors spoiling "their" views etc? Plus of course any development would mean that the LA would have to spend money on something other that the roundabout of redundancy/re-employing Chief Execs and their cronies.

Just face it, the UK as a whole does not want MHs, caravans they understand as they have been around for a few years but MHs might mean b****y furriners.

Do the sensible thing, cross the manche and visit places where you are wanted and appreciated.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Photo4x4]

Do the sensible thing, cross the manche and visit places where you are wanted and appreciated.

Not that practical when you live in the far north of Scotland!

KH

 

[GJH]

Unfortunately, there are a percentage who drive up, parkup and then move on to the next stop without contributing to the local economy......

And not a small percentage either

 

[GJH]

Not that practical when you live in the far north of Scotland!

KH

Or north east England either.

Plus of course any development would mean that the LA would have to spend money on something other that the roundabout of redundancy/re-employing Chief Execs and their cronies.

And in one rather less than constructive sentence, dear reader, we have one of the reasons why LAs are sometimes loath to take any approaches from motorhomers seriously.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[pyro]

So we have the usual self serving local authorities to blame? Or is it those certain members of our fraternity who simply haul up, weigh anchor in the morning and don't contribute anything to the local tourist economy save leaving behind a black bag of overflowing waste? Or a combination of both, with apathetic councils and an inability/unwillingness for the (NIMBY) public to differentiate between travellers and tourists?

Centralised lobbying by a nationally recognised body representing independent "campers" (tourists) , with enforced standards of conduct, etc may influence LA's. We don't know unless we try. I wouldn't hold my breath to see whether the CC & the CCC would be the least interested in anything that doesn't make them money or over which they cannot exercise absolute control, but eventually either someone stands up or we end up forced to use uninviting club sites or having to go overseas where there is a more enlightened attitude.

It's a rum old world

 

[GJH]

So we have the usual self serving local authorities to blame? Or is it those certain members of our fraternity who simply haul up, weigh anchor in the morning and don't contribute anything to the local tourist economy save leaving behind a black bag of overflowing waste? Or a combination of both, with apathetic councils and an inability/unwillingness for the (NIMBY) public to differentiate between travellers and tourists?

Centralised lobbying by a nationally recognised body representing independent "campers" (tourists) , with enforced standards of conduct, etc may influence LA's. We don't know unless we try. I wouldn't hold my breath to see whether the CC & the CCC would be the least interested in anything that doesn't make them money or over which they cannot exercise absolute control, but eventually either someone stands up or we end up forced to use uninviting club sites or having to go overseas where there is a more enlightened attitude.

It's a rum old world

What are these "usual self serving local authorities"? Are they, perhaps, local authorities which have to balance the (often conflicting) needs of all different sections of society and, as a result, don't agree with what one of those sections wants all the time?

I agree that centralised lobbying by a nationally recognised body might achieve something but the fact is that there is no such body in existence and no interest from the motorhoming community at large in setting one up. Even if the CC, C&CC or MCC (which did actually circulate a promotional DVD to councils a few years ago) decided to claim that status it's highly likely that people who were not members of that particular club would recognise it as such (so neither would LAs).

The answer really is that "someone stands up" because where facilities do exist they have come about for that reason. Someone decides that they know of a place where they think an "aire" would be viable and puts some effort into trying to achieve it, by making a case for that specific place.

How many hands & feet would one need to count the number of "someones" willing to do that? Not many. Even the daft petitions we have seen in the last few years, demanding something be done, only attract a few hundred signatories and the vast majority of them would soon disappear if actually asked to put some practical effort in.

 

[Lot lover]

But is there a body that represents MH owners? And how many of you are there ? How many of you are prepared to do something to get more/better facilities?

Based on comments that I have read on this site the CC and C&CC don't appear to care about you, they may tolerate you and occasionally allow one or two of you to stay on their sites but those 2 organisations appear to be happy with the status quo.

There is another ongoing thread about the revolting and striking French, perhaps Action Direct is what you need.

I know that some (most) of you will see my comments as unhelpful but I'm not the one who needs things to change.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Lot lover]

Sorry GJH you have answered my questions before I asked.

 

[BusyBuilder]

The Highlands are and have been for years very popular with Italians, Dutch and Germans, both in MH's and motorbikes. The NC500 is just a way of advertising what is available. Nothing new really.

The west is far busier now though and where I live in Alness we see lots of johnny foreigners pulling in to top up fuel, food and whisky (The Dalmore) distillery is very popular.

We also see far more sports cars now, on Sunday I saw two groups of sports cars (Lambo's ferraris etc).

 

[JJ]

To be honest, I don't have any problems whatsoever in finding places to park up.

But then I have a classic Hymer 660S... a sure sign of quality and good breeding...

JJ

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}