I think enough's enough (2 Viewers)

[weekenders]

Hi Paul @haganap we had the same problem at new year whilst away, out boiler fell off the bracket which attached it to the wall, we took it to a caravan service company (can't remember the name) and they took the boiler out through cooker top.
bench tested it for several things, then spoke to Trauma, they said it could be the PCB, which to buy was £330, they said if they sent our old PCB to them they would check if this was the problem, then send a new one if it was. guess what, it was the PCB, so the caravan service company fitted and only charged us for 4 hours labour, total cost about £540.
if you want the caravan service company let us know.

 

[WSandME]

I have had the van 2 years, out of Warranty,

I can't remember the details, but (thanks to the EU) I believe warranties, especially on complex items, can run for up to 6 (six) years. I think the onus, after the first couple of years, falls to the user to show that the device should have, could be expected to, work.
For the amount of money you're looking at, it's worth investigating this line of recourse.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...cused-of-denying-six-year-warranty-right.html

 

[Cleve]

Well @haganap, having read through this thread (sorry forgot your location) but for me it sounds like a trip to Truma where I am confident from the replies above your problem will be sorted efficiently and economically.

With a few exceptions it seems that most of the people in the "trade" be it dealers or engineers are totally incompetent and rely on the ignorance and innocence of their customer.

I have been reading through the many and varied threads on this really useful website (I would never have become a life member otherwise) and it seems that a great many of the problems appear to be a lack of knowledge on the part of the "service provider" and a reluctance to carry out the work. The technique used to avoid the work and deter the "victim" is to give an outrageous price for the work. Make note of the fact that many of these poor souls have no concept of the difference between an estimate and a quote. It is most important to ensure they do understand these words and enter in a written contract. Never rely on a verbal contract, it is always open to contest unless you are as contemptable as me and put your dictaphone on the table while discussing your terms, that can really sour the atmosphere. This helps focus their attention and for some it will be an introduction to the English language.

I seem to be particularly fortunate in having a very old vehicle and I know my Truma boiler has been replaced at some stage - sorry I cannot unload the wardrobe to check the date, as I recall about 10 years ago. The build quality of my Hymer at 35 years old is quite astonishing, there had been water ingress courtesy of someone's earlier bodge job (many years ago details on Helen the Hymer), I sorted that about a fortnight ago before I set off for 6 about months over here. Since I obtained Helen (on EBay) the only people to work on her have been my brother (13 years junior (a surprise to us all there were 5 already) and myself. The only reason I let my brother work on her was because I was working away until I took early retirement and he had been learning at my elbow as he grew so he knows it is no good trying to bull sh*t me. Though to my utter amazement he appears to try, just another bone idle 50 year old.

Anyway, the long and the short of it is, take it to Truma I suspect you will be pleasantly surprised they have a name to uphold.

Sorry about rambling on but it is time for the English and I think it is mainly them, to stop suffering in silence and to start making a fuss. The editors of national newspapers like a good story that will stir things and they love "cowboy exposures"

Time I shut up Clive

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[haganap]

well, thank you everyone for your replies and here's an update.

I got up this morning and anyone who knows me knows what a determined little B*****D I am, and decided I would do one of two things if not 3.
Firstly I had to get the boiler out. I had to ring some "engineers" and I had to buy a new van, Oh and I had to fix the boiler.

So I got out of bed and cracked straight in to removing the boiler, this consisted of removing, sinks, cupboards, some work surface, part of the cooker and of course some draws. Having done all this I placed the boiler on my laboratory work bench (the dining room table) and looked at the parts that were described in the fault code and how easy they would be to remove and replace.

Having done this I thought that actually the parts required to replace in the order of requirements were Combustion fan motor, Circulating fan motor, PCB board, and or wiring harness. Having totaled the price of the said items up it would come in at about 750 pound. I therefore thought I would ring a few local "caravan butchers" At this point I soon realised that I was in the wrong job. Firstly when speaking to a couple of them it became apparent that I knew as much as some, but that didn't matter as the earliest I could get an engineer to look at it would be mid June.. Now I know @Barclaybasher vic said not to worry and be a camper but in all honesty I do like a shower after a long run and with 4 marathons booked between now and Mid June I knew I would have to take action to resolve this issue.

I therefore contact truma and helpful as they are and were, it was evident that they had no magic wand. They called my flash code the code of death because it's pot luck about which of the items if not all of the items that would need replacing. They offered a PCB test but had a 5 day turnaround on this and I have to say were really helpful. She felt really sorry for me, really sorry and even said she wanted to come and give me a hug because of my woes, I informed her that she should do no such thing if I can not shower after a run as she may regret it.

So with this out the way, a boiler on the table and a van in a 1000 bits, I decided to buy a new van. I spotted a nearly new Rapido 9090df with only 20k on the clock and quite local to me which would suit my needs to a tee. I therefore made a few phone calls and was told it would be 15k to change my Merc based Rapido for this new beauty. Well I couldn't resist so I spoke to Nikki and informed her of my actions. Nikki informed me that we were about to knock down and rebuild the house so there wasn't 15k available for said new van.

I was then reminded about that wonderful site called EBAY and decided I would price up a new boiler, coming in at about 2k for a new boiler I couldn't help but keep noticing a boiler for sale the same as mine, for £1200 in Nottingham. Described as new/unused stock I put my negotiation head on and got all the details. It was basically the same as mine, surplus to stock and I managed ot strike a cash deal of £800 without the control unit. It was agreed that this would be a cash transaction outside of ebay and that no warrany would be implied or offered. I thought long and hard and thought if all goes pete tong I would at least have the spares I needed so took the gamble.

On arrival at the dealers place, I was met with the boiler all plugged and ready to test in my presence, I was given a little history of how the dealer came across not only this one but a few others. I therefore purchased the said item and took it home. It now sits in my motorhome having been plumbed in by myself and fully tested. At this time it is heating my van to such a degree I have had to come out.

So I now have a spares or repair boiler to place on ebay, a boiler that works, cuts all over my fingers and arms and a kitchen to rebuild.. If my career as a jigalo playboy does not take off,then at least I can turn my head to motorhome boiler repairs.

 

[Langtoftlad]

Well done.

 

[funflair]

Long read but good outcome, well done that man.

Martin

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[dabhand]

Shame! There's some good pubs in Toxteth

 

[dabhand]

Couldn't resist the above, sorry Paul! Had a similar problem in my last van, Truma had it all day couldn't find the problem, to be fair they didn't charge me, took it to a local mobile Caravan/Motorhome repair guy, he had it a while, it turned out to be a mouse chewed wire under the drivers seat, must have been lots of crumbs there!! £150 for his time and well worth it. Anyway, glad you can have your shower now after meeting Betty Swallocks!

 

[Cleve]

Well done. Excellent work Clive

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[Anthea M]

So glad it's sorted and good luck with the 4 Marathons.

 

[mike mcglynn]

Well Done Paul,it all boils down to taking your draws off in the van ,

 

[Barclaybasher]

well done Paul ! @haganap

I will definitely have a shower after my next (first ever) marathon............

Seriously, I have been selling gas fires for over 30 years and have more problems with modern fires (usually PCB boards) than fires (and central heating boilers) fitted even 40 years ago.

'Progress' ? ........not sure

Well done again anyway

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[Armytwowheels]

Brilliant, well done Paul.

 

[Yorick]

So glad it's sorted and good luck with the 4 Marathons.

Aren't they called Snickers bars now? I couldn't eat 4

 

[cruiser]

Well done that man. I think most of us it would have been a trip to truma. Happy travels.

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[g8ysn]

.I took my boiler out replaced elements of 2nd hand unit now 2yrs later gone again told by dealer have 2 buy complete spares not just elements was looking at fitting different aftermarket unit at less cost but mine is ok on gas so ok at the momment good luck with sorting something out

 

[Silkcut1105]

You could have borrowed my kettle anytime mate I would have let you use my shower too and if you were really good I would have scrubbed your back too ,now stopp fluffing about and lets go camping .hope your coming to Newbury next week

 

[pyro]

Excellent news, Paul. Persistence paid off!

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[Jimbohorlicks]

Good news, shame about the static in Toxteth, looks like we will be seeing you at other fun meets then?

 

[Bart]

Excellent read , glad you's got it sorted in the end

 

[Silver-Fox]

I can't remember the details, but (thanks to the EU) I believe warranties, especially on complex items, can run for up to 6 (six) years. I think the onus, after the first couple of years, falls to the user to show that the device should have, could be expected to, work.
For the amount of money you're looking at, it's worth investigating this line of recourse.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...cused-of-denying-six-year-warranty-right.html

Thats actually UK law

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[WSandME]

Thats actually UK law

I didn't say it wasn't

 

[Silver-Fox]

I didn't say it wasn't

Then why the brackets with thanks to EU ? just curious

 

[WSandME]

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...enting-the-consumer-rights-directive-201183eu

I'm on CL at the moment, with limited time and internet, this is my first hit.
I was under the impression that one of the functions of the E U was to harmonise things like consumer law. The harmonised versions are then passed formally into each state's legislation.

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[Silver-Fox]

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...enting-the-consumer-rights-directive-201183eu

I'm on CL at the moment, with limited time and internet, this is my first hit.
I was under the impression that one of the functions of the E U was to harmonise things like consumer law. The harmonised versions are then passed formally into each state's legislation.

Yes you are correct about the harmonising but a lot of UK law including workers rights etc was introduced prior to EU involvement I'm led to believe

Always open to being pointed in the correct direction if I'm wrong though

 

[tonyidle]

Don't forget fit for purpose. I would say a boiler should last a lot longer than a couple of years and just because the manufacturer says the warranty is 2 years doesn't necessarily mean it's two years.
Judgements have been made in favour to the purchaser if it's deemed the item should last longer.
Might be worth investigating

This any use?

Consumer Rights - The Six Year Rule
Link Removed
A little known consumer right - especially among retailers!!

Which? Magazine Press Release (01-02-2001): Although this press release refers specifically to high street electrical goods there are important principles here that apply to your rights as purchasers of motorhomes and motorhome accessories. This principle was quoted in relation to an 'out of guarantee' faulty motorhome component and resulted in a successful outcome.
"Electrical stores pass the buck on faulty goods": Eight out of ten major high-street electrical stores were not prepared to take responsibility for faulty goods which they might sell, in an investigation for Which? published today (1 February 2001). Under the Sale of Goods Act, retailers are responsible for faulty goods, that is goods which are not 'of satisfactory quality' - for up to six years after purchase (in Scotland the period is five years after something goes wrong). But, according to Which?, staff from stores, including Currys, Dixons and Comet and Tempo, wrongly stated, or implied, that the responsibility lay with the manufacturer or the customer.
Which? sent undercover shoppers to 12 major UK chains, visiting two branches of each, with a complaint about an 18-month VCR that had broken down. In 80 per cent of the visits, staff made it clear that the problem was nothing to do with them and washed their hands of it.
Many stores mentioned the one-year guarantee - which had now expired - as the end of the line for their responsibilities. This is wrong. Rights under a guarantee are in addition to rights against the seller under the Sale of Goods Act. Others were equally adamant the problem wasn't theirs. At Powerhouse in Oldbury, West Midlands, a salesperson said: 'It's nothing to do with us…. we don't make them.' At Currys in Cribbs Causeway, Bristol, a salesperson made an interesting, but misguided, analogy to explain why the problem was nothing to do with the shop: 'All we've done is sell it to you. It's like a house. If suddenly one of your walls fell down, you don't go back to the estate agent. Your complaint is with the builder.'
Out of 24 visits, 14 stores took the opportunity to mention an extended warranty. Five of them claimed that extended warranties exist for exactly this type of problem. Which? research has shown that, in general, these are a waste of money with the warranty costing more than any repairs that may be needed.
Staff in five of the stores visited conceded that, ultimately, the store had some responsibility for the goods.
When Which? out its findings to the stores head offices, most said that said that consumers' rights are part of their in-store training programmes but that they would now take action, either through more training or by alerting staff about giving correct advice.
Helen Parker, Editor of Which? said: "When it comes to consumers' rights our investigation shows that many staff don't have a grasp of the law." "We'll be sending our findings to the Department of Trade and Industry and pressing for shops to give staff more thorough training. Stores should also stock leaflets about customers' rights on faulty goods." Check out www.which.net
Our comment: Remember your contract is with the seller and no-one else. Note also that your rights regarding 'satisfactory quality' includes major components like fridges and heaters and may last for up to six years, whatever the guarantee says. Furthermore it is the seller who must resolve your complaint. (The seller may of course make his own claim on the manufacturer but that is not your problem!).
Which? repeated the exercise in June 2003 with an out of guarantee DVD player and found that; 87 per cent of stores didn't admit that they might be legally obliged to repair the DVD for free; 46 per cent simply passed the buck to the manufacturer, even though the manufacturer had no legal obligation to help us out; 19 per cent politely suggested that there was absolutely nothing they could do, so we should buy a brand new DVD player from them instead.
Your rights extend to on-line purchases too but could be in for a nasty surprise if you want to return something large or heavy that was bought online. Although the law lets you return most unwanted items within seven days of delivery, you might have to pay to send the goods back if they're not faulty. Companies are obliged to tell you if you have to pay to return items, but there's no requirement for them to put this information on their website: they can wait until the point of delivery to inform you. Around a third of the sites we looked at fail to specify whether you or the company is responsible for the cost of sending an item back. Motorcaravanning.co.uk believes that faulty goods are excluded from this but we would be pleased to hear from lawyers on this point.
Notes:
1 Which? visited two branches of each of these chains: Allders, Argos, Comet, Currys, Dixons, House of Fraser, Index, John Lewis (including Peter Jones), Miller Brothers, Powerhouse, Scottish Power and Tempo.
2 The Sale of Goods Act 1979, amended in 1994, says that when you buy goods from a trader they must correspond with the description, be of satisfactory quality - which includes lasting a reasonable length of time - and be fit for the purpose. If the goods aren't of 'satisfactory quality', you're entitled to claim your money back or to claim compensation, which is normally the cost of repairs. This lasts for up to six years after you bought the goods - five years in Scotland. The retailer, not the manufacturer, is legally obliged to sort out the problem if the goods don't meet these requirements. A manufacturer's one-year guarantee is in addition to these rights - many offer free repair or replacement without quibble. Extended warranties are an extension of this.
3 The Department of Trade and Industry publishes a leaflet Unsatisfactory goods: your rights as a consumer, which you can order from its hotline on 0870 150 2500. You can also get advice on its website Link Removed
With thanks to Which? for permission to use this material.
Rigorous research and vigorous campaigning to further its charitable aims are the hallmark of Consumers' Association (CA). The Association is completely independent of government and industry and accepts no grants, donations or free samples. Which? is published by Which Limited, the Association's trading subsidiary; in common with all other CA publications, Which? accepts no advertising, in order to protect its independence. Which?is available on subscription only by post or via the web. To take advantage of the free trial offer please call 0645 245000 or visit http://www.which.net/.

 

[Scout]

Im really really please your sorted becuase, when asked recently "which funsters would I like most to meet" you were on top of my list, or would have been had I rememberd your name.

but you get my drift dont you, by the was what happended to your swift?

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[lesleyjean]

well, thank you everyone for your replies and here's an update.

I got up this morning and anyone who knows me knows what a determined little B*****D I am, and decided I would do one of two things if not 3.
Firstly I had to get the boiler out. I had to ring some "engineers" and I had to buy a new van, Oh and I had to fix the boiler.

So I got out of bed and cracked straight in to removing the boiler, this consisted of removing, sinks, cupboards, some work surface, part of the cooker and of course some draws. Having done all this I placed the boiler on my laboratory work bench (the dining room table) and looked at the parts that were described in the fault code and how easy they would be to remove and replace.

Having done this I thought that actually the parts required to replace in the order of requirements were Combustion fan motor, Circulating fan motor, PCB board, and or wiring harness. Having totaled the price of the said items up it would come in at about 750 pound. I therefore thought I would ring a few local "caravan butchers" At this point I soon realised that I was in the wrong job. Firstly when speaking to a couple of them it became apparent that I knew as much as some, but that didn't matter as the earliest I could get an engineer to look at it would be mid June.. Now I know @Barclaybasher vic said not to worry and be a camper but in all honesty I do like a shower after a long run and with 4 marathons booked between now and Mid June I knew I would have to take action to resolve this issue.

I therefore contact truma and helpful as they are and were, it was evident that they had no magic wand. They called my flash code the code of death because it's pot luck about which of the items if not all of the items that would need replacing. They offered a PCB test but had a 5 day turnaround on this and I have to say were really helpful. She felt really sorry for me, really sorry and even said she wanted to come and give me a hug because of my woes, I informed her that she should do no such thing if I can not shower after a run as she may regret it.

So with this out the way, a boiler on the table and a van in a 1000 bits, I decided to buy a new van. I spotted a nearly new Rapido 9090df with only 20k on the clock and quite local to me which would suit my needs to a tee. I therefore made a few phone calls and was told it would be 15k to change my Merc based Rapido for this new beauty. Well I couldn't resist so I spoke to Nikki and informed her of my actions. Nikki informed me that we were about to knock down and rebuild the house so there wasn't 15k available for said new van.

I was then reminded about that wonderful site called EBAY and decided I would price up a new boiler, coming in at about 2k for a new boiler I couldn't help but keep noticing a boiler for sale the same as mine, for £1200 in Nottingham. Described as new/unused stock I put my negotiation head on and got all the details. It was basically the same as mine, surplus to stock and I managed ot strike a cash deal of £800 without the control unit. It was agreed that this would be a cash transaction outside of ebay and that no warrany would be implied or offered. I thought long and hard and thought if all goes pete tong I would at least have the spares I needed so took the gamble.

On arrival at the dealers place, I was met with the boiler all plugged and ready to test in my presence, I was given a little history of how the dealer came across not only this one but a few others. I therefore purchased the said item and took it home. It now sits in my motorhome having been plumbed in by myself and fully tested. At this time it is heating my van to such a degree I have had to come out.

So I now have a spares or repair boiler to place on ebay, a boiler that works, cuts all over my fingers and arms and a kitchen to rebuild.. If my career as a jigalo playboy does not take off,then at least I can turn my head to motorhome boiler repairs.

Well done Paul, on a job well thought out and completed.

Made me spit out my tea, was it yours or Nikki's draws, that you had to remove

 

[funflair]

Im really really please your sorted becuase, when asked recently "which funsters would I like most to meet" you were on top of my list, or would have been had I rememberd your name.

but you get my drift dont you, by the was what happended to your swift?

Once met never forgotten though

Martin

 

[Ambilkate]

Oh Paul so pleased for ya next time ya fancy a toasted cheese at 2am in the morning you know where I am fun wouldn't be the same with ought you & Nikki and of course your two lovely girls xxx

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