Word of caution

[Mick and Ruth]

Being new to motorhome life we purchased our Autotrail Apache 634 in November and having grandads rights of the old C1 I got it upped from 3500 to 3650kg to give me a bit of leeway for trips etc. I managed to negotiate an air con unit in the habitat and a gaz low system in with the eventual price I got them down to. Having read previous posts about payloads and having been away 5 times so far I decided to go to the local public weigh bridge loaded with the kit I’d normally go away with BBQ, wastemaster, camping chairs etc all lightweight by design, and a full tank of juice. (My two gaz low bottles are full)
So minus my wife my and 25 kilo labradour, clothing, food and empty water and waste tank I drove it onto the bridge and was dead on 3600 giving me 50 kg left. ( The Labrador can go just don’t take the wife I hear you say! However I am not that brave)
I spoke to Gareth at SVTech who was very helpful explaining my options and we will be up rating as we love the van and it’s layout is perfect for us. What is interesting though is he said about 4 years ago they had warned Auto-trail they were releasing vehicles above their mass in service weight (mine is3295kg on the V5 so I should have a 355kg payload)
I know I have added the air con and gas system so knew my payload would be down but not as much as that, but if you are considering getting a motorhome I have read in previous posts that buyers had requested the dealers to provide them with a weigh bridge certificate which I think is a cracking idea as know now how important payload is and I will certainly be doing that when we get our next van.

 

[Bill_OR]

I also have an Apache 634. As you say, the layout is brilliant!
I bought mine with a 3650 MGW but soon realised that I needed more so uprated it to 3850 using SVTech.To do this I had to fit air assist suspension on the back (fitted it myself so only cost about £350 - easy DIY job) and had to change the rear tyres to a higher load rating.
I suggest you talk to SVTech about uprating yours to avoid the possibility of tears at the side of the road.
By the way, we had a strategy to reduce the weight if necessary and would remove the following (in this order) - water, wife, dog and if all else fails, wine....

 

[Mick and Ruth]

I also have an Apache 634. As you say, the layout is brilliant!
I bought mine with a 3650 MGW but soon realised that I needed more so uprated it to 3850 using SVTech.To do this I had to fit air assist suspension on the back (fitted it myself so only cost about £350 - easy DIY job) and had to change the rear tyres to a higher load rating.
I suggest you talk to SVTech about uprating yours to avoid the possibility of tears at the side of the road.
By the way, we had a strategy to reduce the weight if necessary and would remove the following (in this order) - water, wife, dog and if all else fails, wine....

?? I don’t know if I’m that confident to try myself as no mechanical experience I have made contact with a place in Warrington to fit them. I’ve 16 inch tyres on as it’s 150 BHP instead of the 15 on the 130 bhp models so I hope the rating is high enough I will get them to check.

 

[Bill_OR]

If 'them' is SVTech then that's a good strategy - just complete the enquiry form on their website - be warned, it will take you ages to get all the info they need! See http://www.svtech.co.uk/our-services/uprating/

 

[Spriddler]

I don't understand why the refillable system adds extra weight since most folk travel with a couple of cylinders of some sort anyway. I fitted a Gaslow system of 2 x 6kg refillable cylinders in place of the 2 x 6kg Calor exchange bottles and it seems to me that the only extra weight was the external panel mounted filler assembly and the filler pipe to the cylinders.

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[Ernesto]

Might be because the MIRO figure, from which the payload is originally calculated, does not usually include 2 bottles ....but it wouldn’t be a big hit either way

 

[Jim]

 

[Mick and Ruth]

If 'them' is SVTech then that's a good strategy - just complete the enquiry form on their website - be warned, it will take you ages to get all the info they need! See http://www.svtech.co.uk/our-services/uprating/

Already done mate I don’t think I would have been able to speak to Gareth without him having the full information beforehand the receptionist told me to fill form in

 

[bigtwin]

Perhaps we all need to include punitive damages terms in our sale/purchase agreement; say £1k per 100Kg over the ‘claimed’ weight?

That should remove any resistance to providing a weigh bridge certificate.

Ian

 

[Blue Knight]

Autotrail Apache 634 MIRO: 3,300kg.

The gas and AC will be c.60kg on top of 3,300kg while the 150BHP engine is a further 20kg albeit Autotrail is just about the only manufacturer which doesn't mention the reduction in payload for an engine upgrade over the factory 130bhp lump. An auto box adds extra weight as does a TV and aerial combo (both not included in the MIRI).

Then remove a further 40-80kg for a variation in the weights of the materials (EU Directive) and the weight of the van increases to

.......c. 3,440kg to 3,480kg.

Then add clothes, dog, wife, 10% extra fuel, tow bars, bikes, extra hab battery, steadies, optional round coffee table, bike racks etc and up to 115kg of water and it becomes really tough going.......and impossible at 3.5T

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[TinaLes]

I just looked up The Apache 634 stats from Marquis Motor homes website.
I think thats the lowest payload I have ever seen, not many newbies would realise that though, as they would probably be blown away by the nice big shiny thing with the layout that suits them.
But 200 KGS remaining payload is really not enough, not even when loaded and driven by one person.
Jim & other are spot on, there should be a consumer law to make the dealer provide a weigh bridge cert for every van before signing on the dotted line, and Autotrail should be hauled over the coals as these vans, like some others are not suitable legally for a couple let alone a family of four.
Once bitten, twice shy.
LES
SPECIFICATION

Berths:	2(4 option)
Designated Seats:	2
Conversion:	Low Profile
Transmission:	Manual
Year:	2020
Fuel:	Turbo Diesel
Layout:	Rear U-Shaped Lounge

Width:	2.35m
Length:	7.36m
Unladen Weight:	3300kg
Max Weight:	3500kg
Estimated Payload *:	200kg

* Payload figures are taken from the original manufacturer’s specification at the time of production and may vary with used goods. The quoted figure should only be used as a guideline. Actual payload may be obtained by request.

 

[jezport]

Add extra 40kg for water in bodywork

 

[scotzsue]

Picked up our new motrhome on Thursday, and spent a couple of nights in it. when we got back we took it over the weighbridge at Hull ferryport, full tank of water half tank of fuel, new tow bar and solar. do need to put in the chairs and outside table and a few more clothes. 350K left to play with, really happy. (3.5 T Van)

 

[TinaLes]

Picked up our new motrhome on Thursday, and spent a couple of nights in it. when we got back we took it over the weighbridge at Hull ferryport, full tank of water half tank of fuel, new tow bar and solar. do need to put in the chairs and outside table and a few more clothes. 350K left to play with, really happy. (3.5 T Van)

You were one of the lucky ones then, unfortunately too many new buyers are not aware that they have insufficient payload, as they assume if the van is professionally built for 2/4 persons then it must be OK and be fit for purpose.
This practice has to stop, and consumers need more protection, especially as its such a large chunk of their savings being shelled out.
LES

 

[Mick and Ruth]

I can put it up to 4000kg but this will also require (as well as the rear air suspension) a change to the front coil and can take up to a day to fit so apart for the £300 plus for it, a days labour as well on top as apparently a pain to do.It will not improve the ride just assists when breaking at that weight on the chassis. I think I will stay at the 3850kg mark.

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[Mr Colpot]

.......and even if the Dealer supplies a ticket - make sure you know what was in it when it was weighed as regards water,fuel and driver.

 

[Woody5900]

In Feb this year I put down a deposit on a 2008 A-Class 7.4m Rapido 966M on a 3.0 V6 Auto Sprinter base. I got the dealer to weigh it for me. The front axle load was 1630kg with a slim driver, 1/4 tank of diesel, no gas, water, passenger or anything else at all in van. Front axle limit is 1800kg. So with a passenger and a full tank of diesel and gas you are well over the limit already. And that is before you add any food, clothes, camping kit, water etc. So this suggests all 3.0 V6 Sprinter based A-Class Motorhomes (and maybe Coachbuilt) are heavily overloaded, and probably most others too. SvTech.co.uk say Sprinters front axle CAN NOT be upgraded from the standard 1800kg. As the motorhome is unfit-for-purpose, I have obtained a full refund of my deposit!
When you have a motorhome weighed, you need one axle weighed at a time and compare these individual and combined weights with the VIN Plate in engine-bay / footwell.
Over 80% of the motorhomes VOSA stop and weigh are overweight.

 

[TinaLes]

Unfortunately your example is all too often the case, dealers & manufacturers all too often shy away from the fact that the vehicle they are supplying is not fit for purpose as I mentioned before.

That is why this problem was raised by our Jim on a separate Payload Thread, in which he felt that this issue had to brought to our, and every unsuspecting purchasers attention. Its well over time that manufactures and dealers were held to account legally.

Thankfully Woody5900 you had the nous to get the van weighed before you took delivery, especially as The Merc front suspension was not able to be increased, so well done, you had a very lucky escape.

Its the OP that I feel sorry for, its all very well for those that have had their vans weighed showing they have a surplus of payload, its those that have to delve deep to have weight upgrades carried out to make their vans Safe, usable & legal.
LES

 

[Badknee]

Before I signed on the dotted line I asked my dealer (BCS Manchester) to put the moho on the weighbridge. He thought it was a great idea and had never been asked to do it in 18yrs he had been trading. Being totally empty apart from a quarter tank of fuel and the driver it weighed 3600kgs and the max was 4600kgs. He admitted that ours was the only moho on his pitch he actually knew the weight of out of approx 50/60.

 

[Badknee]

We have owned two low line C class moho’s but when I’ve looked at A class I’m not surprised they are at or over the limit on front axle weights. The chassis was designed as a van with engine and two passengers, instead of that the builders come along and put a large high body and usually a heavy double bed on it. It’s got to upset the front suspension carrying all that extra weight.

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[tonyidle]

In Feb this year I put down a deposit on a 2008 A-Class 7.4m Rapido 966M on a 3.0 V6 Auto Sprinter base. I got the dealer to weigh it for me. The front axle load was 1630kg with a slim driver, 1/4 tank of diesel, no gas, water, passenger or anything else at all in van. Front axle limit is 1800kg. So with a passenger and a full tank of diesel and gas you are well over the limit already. And that is before you add any food, clothes, camping kit, water etc. So this suggests all 3.0 V6 Sprinter based A-Class Motorhomes (and maybe Coachbuilt) are heavily overloaded, and probably most others too. SvTech.co.uk say Sprinters front axle CAN NOT be upgraded from the standard 1800kg. As the motorhome is unfit-for-purpose, I have obtained a full refund of my deposit!
When you have a motorhome weighed, you need one axle weighed at a time and compare these individual and combined weights with the VIN Plate in engine-bay / footwell.
Over 80% of the motorhomes VOSA stop and weigh are overweight.

This is my 3.0L Sprinter based A class:

Height: 2940mm

Length: 7890mm

Width: 2360mm

Front Axle: 2000Kg

Rear Axle: 3500Kg

MTPLM: 5300kg

 

[lorger]

If your van was empty and you only have 50kg I personally don’t think uprating it by 200kg will be sufficient.

 

[jezport]

Our old Frankia could be close on the front but once the garage was loaded up it took the weight off the front axle and balanced it well. We weighed it a few times and realised that the front could be overloaded if you didnt know the van.

 

[Mick and Ruth]

If your van was empty and you only have 50kg I personally don’t think uprating it by 200kg will be sufficient.

It wasn't empty mate?as stated it had everything apart from wife food/water and clothing. With dog in I would have 25kg left from original 3650kg then if I have 200kg more on a 3850 up rate that would cover the wife food and clothing (all clothing lightweight stuff which we all use) which is very easy however if we carry water at 1 litre a KG (135 Ltr tank) I would have to be mindful if wild camping.

 

[lorger]

It wasn't empty mate?as stated it had everything apart from wife food/water and clothing. With dog in I would have 25kg left from original 3650kg then if I have 200kg more on a 3850 up rate that would cover the wife food and clothing (all clothing lightweight stuff which we all use) which is very easy however if we carry water at 1 litre a KG (135 Ltr tank) I would have to be mindful if wild camping.

Sorry misread it, if you had everything in you’re ever going to need then you’ll be fine as long as the wife doesn’t put weight on ??

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[Blue Knight]

It wasn't empty mate?as stated it had everything apart from wife food/water and clothing. With dog in I would have 25kg left from original 3650kg then if I have 200kg more on a 3850 up rate that would cover the wife food and clothing (all clothing lightweight stuff which we all use) which is very easy however if we carry water at 1 litre a KG (135 Ltr tank) I would have to be mindful if wild camping.

You know your figures and that's what counts. It's nice of you to post up some actual facts as most people just go to ground when they experience issues such as payload etc.

One word of warning though; ensure that your first hab/damp check is carried out as thouroghly as possible.

Sadly, the Apache 634 is now the most reported van on the Autotrail Unhappy Owners Club for having severe damp reported at the 12-months old point, often in the 80-100% damp range to the side panels, the rear panel and the garage.

Good luck with yours,

Andrew

 

[Mick and Ruth]

T

You know your figures and that's what counts. It's nice of you to post up some actual facts as most people just go to ground when they experience issues such as payload etc.

One word of warning though; ensure that your first hab/damp check is carried out as thouroghly as possible.

Sadly, the Apache 634 is now the most reported van on the Autotrail Unhappy Owners Club for having severe damp reported at the 12-months old point, often in the 80-100% damp range to the side panels, the rear panel and the garage.

Good luck with yours,

Andrew

Thanks Andrew your comments are appreciated mate ? especially as I am happy to take advice and experience on board.
I am now aware of the unhappy owners club, but have mates who have had bad experiences with Baileys and Chausson and mates who swear by Auto Trails? like anything in life you will find somebody with a “Friday afternoon model” like my Austin Allegro back in the early 80s?
I will be doing the hab/ damp check at earliest point and will make a decision then on their findings and what next step is but this models lay out suits us to the ground with massive rear bed and overhead cab double if one of us is ill whilst on tour. (Or have an argument ?)
Regards Mick

 

[Jonno1103]

I don't understand why AT offer MH's with a similar layout to the 634 in hi line any more, same for the EKS. If they can't have the extra travel seats what's the point, you lose payload due to the added structural weight of the conversion, mattress and slatted base... and for what, a bed which will hardly ever be used?

The shorter Imala 625 has the same layout, is very similarly appointed, comes with the same choice of cost options and has a greater payload... I mean, what's the point of the extra length in the 634 if you can't fill the space it creates due to payload restrictions?

 

[Mick and Ruth]

I don't understand why AT offer MH's with a similar layout to the 634 in hi line any more, same for the EKS. If they can't have the extra travel seats what's the point, you lose payload due to the added structural weight of the conversion, mattress and slatted base... and for what, a bed which will hardly ever be used?

The shorter Imala 625 has the same layout, is very similarly appointed, comes with the same choice of cost options and has a greater payload... I mean, what's the point of the extra length in the 634 if you can't fill the space it creates due to payload restrictions?

We bought it as our children live in different parts of the country and they could stay over if they wanted to drive out and meet us and also if one of us feeling poorly on a long trip could use the overhead for a bit of sanctuary. I’ve been walking with a mate for a few days and they’ve been able to sleep in the overhead. I was also advised by dealers the high lines are easier to sell than low lines?

 

[Jonno1103]

while the 150BHP engine is a further 20kg albeit Autotrail is just about the only manufacturer which doesn't mention the reduction in payload for an engine upgrade over the factory 130bhp lump.

Interesting as the engines on a 2010-2015 Ducato commercial van fitted with the Iveco F1A 2.3 Multijet doesn't change the weight it's simply remapped. The 177ps is heavier as it's a different 3.0 engine. The auto control valve actuator & the hydraulic gearbox actuator for the comfortmatic add 10kg.

Pre Ad Blu the Citroen & Pug engines were supplied by Ford and again were just remapped from 110ps to 150 ps.
My local Fiat Professional garage in York told me that when I took ours in for the brake pipe check.