What's the disadvantages of towing a car?

[Kups]

We've had great fun electric biking but being realistic about our physical capability we're considering selling them and converting my wife's Toyota to a tow car, already have the tow bar installed. I can hire a bike if I need one.
We know the advantages of a tow car. So what are the disadvantages? Is it OK to stay on an aire with a tow car for instance? All comments gratefully accepted.

 

[LesW]

It’s possible but personally, I wouldn’t recommend it! It’s easier to just unhook the two and just manoeuvre separately.

There is a high risk of damage to the TOADS front suspension, wheels tyres, wheel bearings etc as the front wheels will often be pointing in the wrong direction due to caster, camber and so on…

It shouldn’t be possible with an inertia set-up anyway as the car is not equipped with auto-reverse brakes, unlike a trailer.

That video made me cringe a bit seeing the tyres scrubbing like that

 

[TonyEmm]

Great comments and food for thought - thanks.
Towtal was a possible installer as they fitted my towbar and Amplo levelling system, both done very well.
The EU law situation is very confused or is it just the French and Spanish plod who have their own interpretation depending on what side of bed they got out of that morning
Seriously though, I've just read through the CCC advice guide which makes clear statements about EU situation, basically towing with an A frame is a no no. https://www.campingandcaravanningclub.co.uk/advice/equipment/towing-with-a-motorhome/

It’s not just the French & Spanish being pedantic (though both have their own national laws that ban towing one motorised vehicle with another).
The regulations stem from the Vienna Convention on Road Traffic 1968. Rules were put in place by the UNECE which covers the movement of ‘international traffic’ in many countries, not just Europe.
The UNECE definition of a trailer does not include a motorised vehicle that’s been adapted to be towed (unlike the uk’s C&U regs).
UNECE require that a trailer be designed to be towed, not adapted.

 

[gib1772]

Hi i have used a toad in the UK for 8 years it's the electric brake type with no overrun I have found that by tying a bungee cord through the steering wheel and anchoring under the seat to give more resistance it makes it easier to reverse we use a trailer in Spain

 

[TonyEmm]

As long as you do not have over run braking system then you can reverse a toad . Principle is the same as an HGV with a ‘turntable’ trailer, as opposed to a close coupled trailer which has the two centre axles. Find yourself a German HGV rig and ask for a few lessons!

It’s not really! With a turntable steered or Ackerman steered trailer, the drawbar gives you direct control of the angle of the front wheels, not so on a TOAD where there is no direct link. The front wheels can (and do) do their own thing!

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[tonyidle]

I've done all three towing options. I towed a caravan for many years, moved to a motorhome, then motorhome with car on a trailer, followed by motorhome towing a car. Without doubt the "toad" system is the easiest to use - but only with a telescopic A frame. I've observed overrun braked A frames and the effort involved solo coupling and wouldn't consider one. I bought my tow car by searching for any car with an electronic towing braking system already installed along with an appropriate A frame. I've ended up with a Fiat 500C which turns out to be a pleasant, easy to use, car. I paid average price for it so the (very expensive) was effectively FOC.

 

[TonyEmm]

…..
Last but not least with the uncertainty of law regarding A Frames in Europe we decided it was not worth the risk of having to leave the car at the side of the road if stopped by police as my wife does not drive.
The convenience of having the car with us is worth the trouble for our requirements when on birding trips.

You’ve just hit on the biggest single issue for many folk!

A relatively small fine is one thing but the risk of having 2 vehicles that need driving separately, and only 1 driver, is a major issue!

 

[TonyEmm]

Comments As before
VW UP!and Car a tow system. (true twin acutor (accerometer) brake system. Company brilliant in dealing with the 2 issues we had
Can't think of anything negative to say.
1. Dead easy to fit, remove and store (Telecopic legs one person job)
2. Can't really notice any worse MPG 1-2
3. Slower Not really, 62 is my preffered speed limited while towing anyhow (60 MPH on motorway etc) makes for less stress.
4. Dead handy having a car while away
5. Don't feel need for extra preparation.
6. Goodplace to carry extra stuff (its a trailer)
7. Simple straight line reversing no problem for short distances. (just practice before you need to do it)
8. Short distance driving with A frame attched no problem with the widget thing that holds frame up (patented i believe)
9. we had a key without transponder, so won’t start car .
10. We now have 2 electric cables one 7 way and 1 13 (both 13 pin) wired to charge car or not as required.

From what you describe, I think you are referring to a Towaframe system https://towaframeltd.co.uk/ not Car-a-Tow. Car-a-Tow’s is inertia braked!

 

[the1andonly]

From what you describe, I think you are referring to a Towaframe system https://towaframeltd.co.uk/ not Car-a-Tow. Car-a-Tow’s is inertia braked!

just making sure people are awake even if im not

 

[Don Campbell]

You will use a lot of fuel .

Not true. Depends what you are towing with and what you're towing. Towing a Smart car with a 3 Litre Merc V6 it made 1 mpg difference and the same with a 2.3 Fiat.

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[gpat]

Not true. Depends what you are towing with and what you're towing. Towing a Smart car with a 3 Litre Merc V6 it made 1 mpg difference and the same with a 2.3 Fiat.

Ok. Depends on what we consider a lot. Without rewriting the laws of physics though, it cannot be insignificant. Let's say a smart car weighs 1000kgs. Add the trailer, let's say 250kg. That becomes the mass. Then factor in the drag and the resistance of the wheel bearings.

If you calculated the absolute minimum kinetic energy required for this( which would depend on the speed and the net gain in altitude) it's gonna be quite a lot. Compared to a 5t motorhome it will be less of course and as a percentage the more your rig uses the less it is as a percentage.

I'll stick to my view though. It's gonna be a lot. You don't get nothing for free. I reckon with my 2.3 Ducato it reduces my average mpg from about 28 to 22mph. If it's mountainous it's worse. I feel the pain.

 

[Fdhadi]

Never found the need to have a tow car, however when covid kicked in and afterwards when travelling was restricted we tended to travel more in the UK. I find a tow car is a good option for uk touring. I’m fortunate that I use my tow car for my job and as an option for towing.

Like I said in an earlier post, little or no difference in fuel consumption, in fact, don’t use your Motorhome on a windy day, you’ll probably use far more fuel than towing a car.
A little bit more awareness and planning is probably needed, a bit like driving a Motorhome down a road where there is a low bridge, look ahead and plan.

We seldom take the car, but it’s there if needed, a good option to have.
For comparison, we were in Monaco earlier this week, parked the 7m Motorhome in the centre, try doing that in the UK.

 

[Scotty Ian]

We've had great fun electric biking but being realistic about our physical capability we're considering selling them and converting my wife's Toyota to a tow car, already have the tow bar installed. I can hire a bike if I need one.
We know the advantages of a tow car. So what are the disadvantages? Is it OK to stay on an aire with a tow car for instance? All comments gratefully accepted.

The toad is classed as an unbraked trailer and is limited in weight to I think 750kg by uk law. I was contemplating towing my MX5 but it weighs 1200kg so a no no. Trailer would have been my only option but too expensive.

 

[gpat]

I was once on a campsite in our caravanning days. I had a new Rover 600 SDI. It was a great tow car.

I was pitched next a chap with a 5l Range Rover. He asked what mpg I got. I said about 45 without the caravan and drops to 35 with the van on. He said, you wanna get one of these mate. Don't even know I have the caravan on and it doesn't affect my mpg. Yeah right.

Neither Perpetual motion nor free energy exist.

 

[Larrynwin]

That is n

It’s possible but personally, I wouldn’t recommend it! It’s easier to just unhook the two and just manoeuvre separately.

There is a high risk of damage to the TOADS front suspension, wheels tyres, wheel bearings etc as the front wheels will often be pointing in the wrong direction due to caster, camber and so on…

It shouldn’t be possible with an inertia set-up anyway as the car is not equipped with auto-reverse brakes, unlike a trailer.

That is not the way to treat a car, could only lead to damage. If you get to a point where you need to reverse more than a few feet you unhitch.

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[mikebeaches]

I was pitched next a chap with a 5l Range Rover. He asked what mpg I got. I said about 45 without the caravan and drops to 35 with the van on. He said, you wanna get one of these mate. Don't even know I have the caravan on and it doesn't affect my mpg. Yeah right.

Neither Perpetual motion nor free energy exist.

Back in 1990 I had one of the first - then new - Landrover Discovery - it had a V8 petrol engine with twin SU carbs, as I recall. Driven reasonably carefully I averaged about 15-16 mpg. But hang the caravan on the back and it dropped to 12 mpg.

Thankfully, it was a company car and I wasn't paying for the fuel. I used to visit the filling station rather too frequently. And I think my boss wondered if I was on the fiddle because of my petrol claims...

 

[Larrynwin]

It’s not really! With a turntable steered or Ackerman steered trailer, the drawbar gives you direct control of the angle of the front wheels, not so on a TOAD where there is no direct link. The front wheels can (and do) do their own thing!

By watching reversing camera as soon as wheels steer , pull forward a bit to straighten them and reverse again , if you’re capable you can do it with care.

 

[tonyidle]

The toad is classed as an unbraked trailer and is limited in weight to I think 750kg by uk law. I was contemplating towing my MX5 but it weighs 1200kg so a no no. Trailer would have been my only option but too expensive.

Any toad has to have working brakes when on tow. The weight is irrelevant: if brakes are fitted to a trailer they must work.

 

[Scotty Ian]

Any toad has to have working brakes when on tow. The weight is irrelevant: if brakes are fitted to a trailer they must work.

Sorry my misunderstanding. I thought a toad was a fancy name for an a frame connected to car so no brakes involved. Otherwise how do the car brakes work ?

 

[offagen]

We have been towing a VW Up on an A-frame for six years with our Auto-Trail Imala. I wanted to use a Tow-A-Frame unit but at that time they didn't offer a telescopic version so I opted for LNB's A-frame which has telescopic arms long enough to be able to carry two bikes on the rear wall of the van. The Imala's towing limit would not allow for the Up on a trailer. Besides, we have nowhere to store a trailer at home.

The towed mileage doesn't register on the Up's odometer but, of course, the Up does suffer wear and tear. Reversing more than a few feet in a straight line is a challenge. Having hwmbo sit in the Up to hold the steering wheel steady hardly succeeds because the front wheels want to flip to full lock and, without power assistance (engine not running), the wheels normally win. We dread meeting a tractor or harvester in the narrow lanes that the Tom Tom Camper thinks are perfectly suitable for a MH.

When towing for a few weeks the diesel consumption usually falls by average 1-2 mpg. The Imala has the 150bhp motor but the weight of the car on inclines generally requires more frequent gear changes. I should have bought the automatic

We go to France for at least a month each year but haven't used the A-frame at all there, or anywhere outside of the UK. We want to relax on holiday and not be looking over our shoulders all the time, fearing being pulled over. We are touring in France at present for 6 weeks and I have only seen one car on an A-frame which, ironically, was being towed by a French registered A-class. We have seen plenty of cars on trailers. We miss the independence of having the Up with us but by carefully selecting well-located aires and campsites we can usually see what we need, either walking or using the electric bikes.

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[tonyidle]

Sorry my misunderstanding. I thought a toad was a fancy name for an a frame connected to car so no brakes involved. Otherwise how do the car brakes work ?

The A frame is connected to the car. There two braking systems: the overrun system works like that on a trailer or caravan and has a direct Bowden cable connection to the brake pedal; the alternative is an electronic system (there are three or more systems) that senses tow vehicle brake application via the brake lights wiring and/or has an accelerometer to sense the rate of deceleration.

 

[Glyn and Debbie]

We've had great fun electric biking but being realistic about our physical capability we're considering selling them and converting my wife's Toyota to a tow car, already have the tow bar installed. I can hire a bike if I need one.
We know the advantages of a tow car. So what are the disadvantages? Is it OK to stay on an aire with a tow car for instance? All comments gratefully accepted.

The biggest problem people don’t realise is that most tow cars are too heavy for the vehicle pulling them

 

[Scotty Ian]

The A frame is connected to the car. There two braking systems: the overrun system works like that on a trailer or caravan and has a direct Bowden cable connection to the brake pedal; the alternative is an electronic system (there are three or more systems) that senses tow vehicle brake application via the brake lights wiring and/or has an accelerometer to sense the rate of deceleration.

OK I understand better. How does the bowden cable on the brake pedal work the car brakes if the car engine isn't running to provide hydraulic brake pressure to the car brakes ?

 

[tonyidle]

OK I understand better. How does the bowden cable on the brake pedal work the car brakes if the car engine isn't running to provide hydraulic brake pressure to the car brakes ?

The engine only works the servo so the brakes will work albeit less powerfully.

 

[Scotty Ian]

The engine only works the servo so the brakes will work albeit less powerfully.

I'm not convinced. If a car is free wheeling with the engine off, the brake pedal is useless

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[tonyidle]

I'm not convinced. If a car is free wheeling with the engine off, the brake pedal is useless

It isn't and wouldn't be legal if it was. You simply need to push harder - much harder. The electronic units have their own vacuum pumps so the servo functions as normal. Overrun systems rely on pulling hard on the brake pedal.

 

[Kerrone]

As long as you do not have over run braking system then you can reverse a toad . Principle is the same as an HGV with a ‘turntable’ trailer, as opposed to a close coupled trailer which has the two centre axles. Find yourself a German HGV rig and ask for a few lessons!

You can only reverse straight, if you try to reverse round a corner the front wheels on the toad go the wrong way

 

[knockersmith]

They are illegal in France and Spain you can only really use them in the uk

Been towing cars through Europe for 20 years never had a problem, maybe lm just lucky,even had one come and roll into a cafe in the Camauge police attend made a report and left never heard anymore about it,lucky no damage and no one hurt .

 

[Steve and Denise]

By watching reversing camera as soon as wheels steer , pull forward a bit to straighten them and reverse again , if you’re capable you can do it with care.

So you go forwards more than backwards

 

[Larrynwin]

So you go forwards more than backwards

Back 4 Forward 1 = +3 and repeat, easy
Only ever needed a shuffle to get out of a tight spot and unhitched just once in 15 years of flat towing.

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[Steve and Denise]

Back 4 Forward 1 = +3 and repeat, easy
Only ever needed a shuffle to get out of a tight spot and unhitched just once in 15 years of flat towing.

Well I can reverse anything as good as the next guy but due to the geometry of a car I can not reverse a toad more than a few feet with any control and I have had a few different makes since 2010 it is simple shopping trolly effect,
and the videos of people trying to do it are just ridiculous pushing a vehicle backwards on full lock scrubbing along the ground, but obviously they don’t have the aptitude to realise what is happening