Waited too long or a mistake made? chain & cassette wear

kevenh

kevenh

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I'm a Progressing Newbie
Got a 4 yr old SRAM cassette & KMC chain.
From my bike’s specs it’s an SRAM XG-1175 10-42t cassette with a KMC x11L chain.

Problem
The over weekend the chain stapped at the “missing link”.

I fitted a new missing link but decided it was about time I replaced the chain. Especially if I wanted to get a couple of chains used before the cassette is replaced.

Issue
Got the new chain but had to get a KMC x11 as x11L not made now. Or was Specialized specific 🤔

With the new chain, on a stand there’s no apparent issue, but under load on a road test there’s regular clicking. Probably a click for every rear tooth on the cassette.

That means I’ve waited too long to change just the chain?
Looking online, expected symptoms of a warn cassette & new chain is slipping & poor gear selection.
Maybe I’m just in the edge.

Conclusion
The only possible mistake is the wrong replacement chain but KMC just have 11speed chains & you pay to have super lightweight or “normal’ as far as I can see.
So I need to replace the cassette.
Those aren’t cheap, hence this post for a sanity check. 👍🏻🤪
TIA
 
I can't comment on your particular circumstances but if you get a new cassette, consider getting 3 chains and rotate them every 1,000 miles or so (give them a thorough clean between uses)... you will wear the chains at a similar rate to your cassette so you might get around 12,000 miles from a cassette or more.
 
If the top of the teeth on your cassette are pointy and sharp then it needs replacing. If they are flat then it may be ok.
 
Thanks both.
‘Swapped back to the old chain for now.
I think the right option is buy a new cassette but the old chain & cassette is running smoothly. 😳

I need to remember that I had to walk home once with this chain…
If I do nothing then my research suggests later it’ll be the whole drivetrain that needs replacing: chainwheel & jockey wheels too.

Need to do some observations of teeth…
 
You did cut the new chain to the right size didn't you? Make sure the old and new have the same number of links. New chains come long so they can be cut to size.

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Neil Bedwin said:
You did cut the new chain to the right size didn't you? Make sure the old and new have the same number of links. New chains come long so they can be cut to size.
Click to expand...
I did 👍
And there’s possibly a clue to be seen there.
I’m sure if measured the old chain will reveal it has stretched.
🤔but I’ve the replacement ready for that. It’s the cassette I need to evaluate for wear.
 
Do you use a chain wear gauge..
If you have been running a well worn chain I'm suspecting a new one will never run right..
And if its fine on a stand and not under load it might be worth checking the derailleur hanger isn't bent..
Andy..
 
daveandsan said:
I normally change a chain and cassette together.
Click to expand...
Road or mtb? How many miles do you do on a chain? It seems unnecessarily costly to change both every time.
 
Road, but that would be roughly 5000 miles a year, the wet roads and grit used to really wear them out in the winter.
Sorry to say I hardly go out now and even then it’s got to be warm & sunny. :giggle:

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My chain break mid ride on the MTB was a rude wake up call.
My theory was my smoother riding style was extending my chain wear compared to friends who every 18months have to replace chain and cassette (I’ve never in 35yr replaced either component

My MTB is 5yo in Nov21
The road bike must be >8yo
Since the “incident” I’ve now replaced the chain on my older road bike and that was a doddle.
Also KMC but a x10 speed chain.
The road bike chain hadn’t overly stretched but was pitted with rust on the links.

I’ve also got 2 spare missing links in my biking bum bag. (A 10sp & a 11sp). 🤪so that won’t happen again.

edit: forgot component replacement feedback
 
daveandsan said:
Road, but that would be roughly 5000 miles a year, the wet roads and grit used to really wear them out in the winter.
Sorry to say I hardly go out now and even then it’s got to be warm & sunny. :giggle:
Click to expand...

I do slightly less mileage but would get around 12-15k miles on a cassette.
 
kevenh said:
My chain break mid ride on the MTB was a rude wake up call.
My theory was my smoother riding style was extending my chain wear compared to friends who every 18months have to replace chain and cassette (I’ve never in 35yr replaced either component

My MTB is 5yo in Nov21
The road bike must be >8yo
Since the “incident” I’ve now replaced the chain on my older road bike and that was a doddle.
Also KMC but a x10 speed chain.
The road bike chain hadn’t overly stretched but was pitted with rust on the links.

I’ve also got 2 spare missing links in my biking bum bag. (A 10sp & a 11sp). 🤪so that won’t happen again.

edit: forgot component replacement feedback
Click to expand...

Rust is rarely an issue... just needs better drying after cleaning and better lubrication.
 
When I used to do a lot of off road mountain biking, used to change chains twice a year, cassettes every year, and chain rings every two years, also had to change wheel rims every year, until I fitted ceramic rims and they are still OK.

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I'm on the tools and always advise customers to use a simple go-no go type gauges to check chain wear...and that varies from rider to rider.....some a grinders and some are spinners....the grinders go through chains much faster..... the general rule of thumb is to change the chain at 0.5 then you should get 3 chains per cassette....assuming you are cleaning and lubricating the chain with your preferred choice of chain lube (can of worms that one)......
 
Apparently I’ll get a discounted cassette from Spain via BikeInn delivered in a day or two - they seem part of TradeInn and they’ve got mixed reviews.

I took out the links from the chain to match the length of the old one. The old one was showing signs of stretch.

At the weekend I’ll try & be more scientific 😳
The old cassette & new chain nearly work. There’s no slippage, shifts are good.
But there’s an unhappy clicking noise at a per tooth sort of frequency.
I don’t think it’s indexing.
 
kevenh said:
Apparently I’ll get a discounted cassette from Spain via BikeInn delivered in a day or two - they seem part of TradeInn and they’ve got mixed reviews.

I took out the links from the chain to match the length of the old one. The old one was showing signs of stretch.

At the weekend I’ll try & be more scientific 😳
The old cassette & new chain nearly work. There’s no slippage, shifts are good.
But there’s an unhappy clicking noise at a per tooth sort of frequency.
I don’t think it’s indexing.
Click to expand...
Have you got to get the correct toothing/chain link on the main cog?
On mine you have thin tooth, thick tooth, and they go into little hole, big hole in the chain.
 
Just a thought but If you took out some links from the new chain is there a chance you refitted a rivet ? ie you added back in a link after removing too many ? There's always a risk you then have a stiff link and that can cause an issue.
 
Not one mention that I can see about replacing the jockey wheels.

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Once you get wear in a chain it's pitch will change.. as far as I know standard distance between pin cntrs is half an inch..nothing actually stretches.. but the wear around the chain rollers causes the distance between pins to increase.. that cumulative effect caused the chain to increase in length causing the rollers to ride higher up the teeth of the sprockets..and in extreme cases jump ..
Thats what often gives a hooked profile to the teeth on a badly worn ring..
The go no go type gauges are most probably as good a way of determining the wear and as mentioned if you change your chain when it gets to 0.5% gauge dropping in you should get a couple of chains out of your cassette and rings..
The lateral play that developed in a chain is also a factor and can effect the way the chain shifts cleanly...or doesn't as the case may be as that wear increases..
The best way to see that wear is by comparison with a new chain..
Thats my thoughts..
Andy
 
My Bit...I run two chains, I clean and lube and store the second one ready to change every 1000km, this is a very economic procedure and if you see the cost of replacing our 12 speed cassette you will understand why...actually doing it this morning...
 
I use a KMC x10 Ti oxide chain on the road bike. Expensive but it lasts for an entire year or about 6000 + miles and the bling factor is huge. Keep it clean. Lube using Squirt dry lube.
When I did LeJog I put a cheapo chain on as the weather was appalling for the entire 1040 miles and opportunities to clean the thing were minimal. At the end of the trip the chain was utterly useless. It curved sideways dramatically.
 
Themselves said:
I use a KMC x10 Ti oxide chain on the road bike. Expensive but it lasts for an entire year or about 6000 + miles and the bling factor is huge. Keep it clean. Lube using Squirt dry lube.
When I did LeJog I put a cheapo chain on as the weather was appalling for the entire 1040 miles and opportunities to clean the thing were minimal. At the end of the trip the chain was utterly useless. It curved sideways dramatically.
Click to expand...

Yes added a a KMC 11 at the weekend on my spare bike, needed replacing and as you say the bling factor:giggle:
 
Themselves said:
I use a KMC x10 Ti oxide chain on the road bike. Expensive but it lasts for an entire year or about 6000 + miles and the bling factor is huge.
Click to expand...

Ridgeway said:
Yes added a a KMC 11 at the weekend on my spare bike, needed replacing and as you say the bling factor:giggle:
Click to expand...
I bought KMC x10 & x11 (road bike & MTB) didn’t notice a T1 oxide 🤔
Just EL (extra light) & SL (super light).

Their chains work either way and were what was already fitted (y).
More fiddling this weekend.

It being warn jockey wheels is my new idea from your feedback above.
Only £25 - £60 for new ones of those 😖

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Time to take my MTB to the LBS
I bought & fitted a new x11 cassette and jockey wheels.
So with those parts and the new KMC chain from earlier posts, I’ve only the chainwheel as an original part.

I still have the steady grinding like noise under normal and harder pedalling effort. Light pedalling is OK but not a good match to my trails. 🤪

All replacement parts are SRAM or KMC. Exactly same parts - well, chain is an X11 not the original X11L (lightweight?).
My LBS is a Specialized dealer so they can determine what’s up. 👀
 
It could be your pedals .
I had a strange tapping noise on a road bike that drove me insane. Striped the bike completely and after the rebuild the noise was still there. It turned out to be a loose bottle cage.
 
Themselves said:
It could be your pedals .
I had a strange tapping noise on a road bike that drove me insane. Striped the bike completely and after the rebuild the noise was still there. It turned out to be a loose bottle cage.
Click to expand...
Thanks. I don’t think it’s m pedals. Swapping back to the old chain would clear up the noise I have.
But I don’t want to run the old chain on new cog bits ☹️

I’ve reclaimed by old MTB from mrskevenh until the LBS can spend time with mine.
 
Let’s hope they can sort it out. Keen to learn the eventual outcome.
 
Part of the eventual outcome will be the ~4200km distance I’ve done on the drive components :doh:
I didn’t realise I’d done so many.

My MTB I re-claimed from mrskevenh worked well enough on today’s simple 45km canal out & road back ride.
Worse things about the loaner are the hub gears are controlled the reverse of my normal ‘steed’ and instead of SPD pedals it has flats. ☹️

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