Votronic VVC 1212-30 b2b installation query (1 Viewer)

[Antique]

Does anyone have experience fitting the above.
I have just installed this unit and as far as its pilot/indicator lights show, it is working correctly.

The CBE control panel (fed from a DS 470 ca control board) in m/h indicated a charge voltage of around 14.4v for both hab and start batteries. This was confirmed by voltmeter on batteries so all seemed good.
However, the amp meter on the control panel is showing a Negative draw on the hab batteries in excess of -20amps which is very confusing!!
Any help why this should be would be very much appreciated.

I have not fitted a D+ signal wire as I do not believe I have a smart alternator.

All the best

Antique

 

[Guigsy]

Is that an apparent 20amp draw with the engine running?

I'm guessing your system has a shunt somewhere to measure the current. If you've hooked the DC charger the hab battery side of the shunt, something like the fridge running 12v would draw that kind of power???

 

[Antique]

Thanks for that Guigsy

Yep its indicating a draw on the leisure bats.
I believe the fridge draws from engine batt but it was turned off.

The negative from the b2b is connected to the original build Carthago shunt.

All the best

Antique

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Antique]

Sorry Guigsy
Yes I have fitted negative to far side shunt terminal away from battery .

All the best

Antique

 

[JustifiedAncient]

If the DS470 is anything like my DS520 then an artificial D+ signal is generated by the panel in response to a signal from the ignition switch.
The VCC1212-30 can operate in one of two modes - either via the D+ signal (artificial or otherwise) or by voltage difference between the starter battery and leisure battery. Which mode is chosen depends upon what is present the first time it is powered up (although it can be changed). D+ mode is better as it ensures that it only runs when the ignition is on.
Are you sure you have it operating in the right direction (starter to leisure)?

 

[Antique]

Hi JustifiedAncient

My first live fuse connection was leisure battery to b2b followed by engine batt fuse to b2b. I did remove fuses and reverse connections today but with same result. Will I need to change anything do you think ?
If by right direction you mean batteries connected to the right b2b terminals then yes, l believe I have followed the simple wiring diagram.
If a D+ connection is required I think I'll need some directions from forum !!

Many thanks, I just want to get this right before we're over the water in a couple of weeks.

All the best

Antique

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[autorouter]

My first live fuse connection was leisure battery to b2b followed by engine batt fuse to b2b.

So the B2B is direct between the starter battery and the leisure battery. Did you disable the split charge relay, which I presume is in the DS470 box?

 

[Antique]

Hi autorouter

Yes it is simply between starter and leisure batteries.
I have previously searched the forum and found removing a diode at R37? I think from memory. On my DS 470 box R37 is in a different position and appears to be empty.
Does the split charge relay needs disabling ?

Many thanks
All the best

Antique

 

[JustifiedAncient]

Hi JustifiedAncient

My first live fuse connection was leisure battery to b2b followed by engine batt fuse to b2b. I did remove fuses and reverse connections today but with same result. Will I need to change anything do you think ?
If by right direction you mean batteries connected to the right b2b terminals then yes, l believe I have followed the simple wiring diagram.
If a D+ connection is required I think I'll need some directions from forum !!

Many thanks, I just want to get this right before we're over the water in a couple of weeks.

All the best

Antique

My VCC1212-30 is wired so that the starter battery is connected directly to it, but the output from the B2B unit then goes into the CBE panel to the +B1 terminal. The leisure battery is already connected to the panel at the +B2 terminal. Current then flows through the CBE panel to the leisure battery and the charge current shows correctly on the control panel. If your B2B is bypassing the CBE DS470 then it won't be able to show the charge current. Do you have a manual for the DS470? It should show the D+ output terminal. I don't think it will have a split-charge relay in it.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[autorouter]

It looks as if you have disabled the split charge relay, so I'd say the system is working OK. The shunt in the DS470 will not register the charge going into the leisure battery from the B2B. It will still register the charge going out of the battery through the DS470, which as Guigsy says is likely to be the fridge etc. I think this value is for information only, and it doesn't actually take any action as a result of this measurement. If there's a battery charge level percentage display, it will affect that too, so ignore that as well

To see the correct amps going into the battery, and charge level percentage, you'd need a shunt on one of the battery terminals.

 

[Antique]

Thanks JustifiedAncient

Strewth!!!

If that's the case most of my beautiful cable laying will be 'redirected ' but I wouldn't mind to get it right.

The only way I can see the b2b being connected to the DS470 is via the shunt.

I will have a hunt for the manual tomorrow, what would I do if I do locate the D+ output terminal?

Many thanks
All the best

Antique

 

[Antique]

Thanks autorouter

Think I've got that straight.

The reason for installing the b2b now and getting it set correctly is to accommodate lithium with bluetooth connection in the near future. I am assuming that will provide accurate charge/discharge information and state of charge.

I just don't fancy messing things up beforehand!

Many thanks once again to all
All the best

Antique

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Wagoneer]

A lot of chat on disabling the CBE split-charge relay on this link:

Carthago Split Charging Unit

@andy63 Your post about boite relais securite is very interesting. I do not have these relays alongside my DS300, or anywhere else I have yet discovered. I have assumed that they are not always used, hence my more difficult solution. However if they are likely to be found hidden away somewhere...

www.motorhomefun.co.uk

I've followed the solution as #8 by Pausim .

 

[Antique]

Thanks Wagoneer
Will have a peep

All the best
Antique

 

[Antique]

Hi all

I've been in email contact with Votronic (very helpful) and they have suggested l need a D+ connection.
Would anyone have a suggestion as to where I may pick up / splice into said beasty please.

Many thanks
All the best

Antique

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Wagoneer]

On my DS distribution box, the D+ wires are coloured yellow. But, my van is 2010, so later versions of the CBE colour coding might be different.

 

[Antique]

Thanks for that Wagoneer
At present the VVC is fitted in the hab battery compartment next to hab door.
Would you know if a D+ is there or even rear of fridge which is other side of hab door to make an easier cable run ?

Many thanks

Antique

 

[Wagoneer]

Thanks for that Wagoneer
At present the VVC is fitted in the hab battery compartment next to hab door.
Would you know if a D+ is there or even rear of fridge which is other side of hab door to make an easier cable run ?

I haven't actually used a D+ to the VVC.

My use of the D+ trigger was to prevent a loop from the hab batteries back to the starter battery. This was accomplished by a relay adjacent to the DS box, linked to the D+ wire (as described by Pausim in the link previously mentioned).

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Dave101]

Would you know if a D+ is there or even rear of fridge which is other side of hab door to make an easier cable run ?

Many thanks

Antique

I'm not sure what retracting hab step you have, but some do use a D+ to auto retract when engine is started?

 

[Antique]

I'm not sure what retracting hab step you have, but some do use a D+ to auto retract when engine is started?

Good point
We don't have auto retract but do have an alarm when step out and engine running .

All the best
Antique

 

[the1andonly]

On my DS distribution box, the D+ wires are coloured yellow. But, my van is 2010, so later versions of the CBE colour coding might be different.

Mine is a ds300 with white D+ on a 2017 rapido. I used this as a d+ for my votronics 1212-30 with the feeds for LB & SB available .

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Dave101]

Good point
We don't have auto retract but do have an alarm when step out and engine running .

In that case the D+ will probably go to the buzzer with the negative switched via a microswitch at the step.

 

[JockandRita]

A lot of chat on disabling the CBE split-charge relay on this link:

Carthago Split Charging Unit

@andy63 Your post about boite relais securite is very interesting. I do not have these relays alongside my DS300, or anywhere else I have yet discovered. I have assumed that they are not always used, hence my more difficult solution. However if they are likely to be found hidden away somewhere...

www.motorhomefun.co.uk

I've followed the solution as #8 by Pausim .

Ditto.

I haven't actually used a D+ to the VVC.

My use of the D+ trigger was to prevent a loop from the hab batteries back to the starter battery. This was accomplished by a relay adjacent to the DS box, linked to the D+ wire (as described by Pausim in the link previously mentioned).

Ditto again, with the only difference being that I got someone (more knowledgeable in electrics than I) to do it for me.

Cheers,

Jock.

 

[Dave101]

The CBE control panel (fed from a DS 470 ca control board) in m/h indicated a charge voltage of around 14.4v for both hab and start batteries. This was confirmed by voltmeter on batteries so all seemed good.
However, the amp meter on the control panel is showing a Negative draw on the hab batteries in excess of -20amps which is very confusing!!

I don't know the specifics of the Carthago version of the DS-470, but I was under the impresion that the DS470 does the current measurment internally, although you do later mention a specific Carthago build fitted shunt?
If it is in fact measured through the 470 as I thought and you have not disabled the split charge relay then surely the current draw you are seeing is the B2B charger current feeding back through the split charge relay to the starter battery.
So, is the split charge relay onboard the Carthago DS-470 or is it a seperate relay and have you actually disabled it?

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Antique]

Hi Dave101
Many thanks for that.

That, I think would be above my pay grade!

Time to find an auto sparky

All the best
Antique

 

[Antique]

Quick update

Auto sparky appeared and was sadly no help (never worked on CBE or Carthago systems)
I have disabled b2b and will run the Carthago system as designed while we wander Spain.

Hopefully catch up with a funster or two on a rally this year for some help .

All the best

Antique

 

[Steve and Denise]

Quick update

Auto sparky appeared and was sadly no help (never worked on CBE or Carthago systems)
I have disabled b2b and will run the Carthago system as designed while we wander Spain.

Hopefully catch up with a funster or two on a rally this year for some help .

All the best

Antique

Keep your eye out for me at a rally I’ll show you how I’ve done mine On Cbe Carthago

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Antique]

Steve and Denise
Would be much appreciated

All the best

Antique

 

[Antique]

Update ......

HUGE ta's to Steve Steve and Denise .
He had the solution and fitted it temporarily at Thetford (Swaffham) so I could install at a later date which was today !!
A normally closed relay controlled by D+ signal was wired between feed to DS470 and a D+ signal wired to Voltronic b2b (thanks Alb Oscar ).

I used other words but 'splendid ' will suffice when it ran as hoped.
I am Sooo happy .

Final test will be to run leisure batts down before an hours drive to get some lpg.

Happy days !!

All the best

Antique