Victron IP22 no good for Gel Batteries ????

Marauder

Marauder

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I bought IP22 cos it seemed to be all singing all dancing.

but on side of IP22 unit it says "For Lead Acid & Lithium only"

I may well swap to Gel Hab Batts next year, so wanted charger with versatility for all Battery Types - was this a misconception ?

I have contacted supplier, but they not replied yet.

What do you guys (& gals) think - should IP22 be able to charge Gels as well ??
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Why you quote the IP rating? Better say what model of charger is not the IP. Pretty much all electrical fixtures has a IP rating, to do with humidity, dust or water ingress. The 22 it’s good for inside out the weather and not in dusty environments. That’s it.
So what model is it?
 
The manual says
"The integrated charge modes (selected using the MODE button) and adaptive charge logic are well suited for most common battery types; such as flooded lead-acid, AGM, Gel and lithium.
If necessary, advanced configuration with user defined settings is possible using the VictronConnect app and a Bluetooth enabled device (such as a mobile phone or tablet)"'

Cheers
 
Flooded, sealed, gel and AGM are all variations based on Lead-acid battery chemistry. They all use lead/lead oxide plates and sulfuric acid chemistry. Flooded and sealed batteries have actual liquid sulfuric acid inside the cells.

In Gel batteries, the sulfuric acid is absorbed into a silica gel, so it doesn't spill out if the battery is inverted or split open. In an Absorbent Glass Mat (AGM) battery, the sulfuric acid is soaked into glass fibre matting packed between the plates, also to avoid spillage if the battery is inverted or split open. But they are all lead-acid chemistry. However due to their different construction and acid concentration, they need slightly different charging profiles.

Lithium batteries are based on an entirely different chemistry system. There are many variations of lithium battery, but the only one that's considered safe to use in motorhomes is Lithium Iron Phosphate, LiFePO4.

There are other kinds of battery, like NiCad, NiMH, Alkaline and old-fashioned Leclanche. And I'm sure new ones will be along soon, like Aluminium-Air. That notice on the charger is to warn people not to use the charger for these other kinds of battery.

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Last edited:
cbrookson said:
well suited for most common battery types; such as flooded lead-acid, AGM, Gel and lithium.
Click to expand...
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Thanks Guys, thanks for input.

I'm sure I'd seen something like that written somewhere (and assumed it was All singing etc), but I've been reading so many specs & comments recently . . . . .

But I've just trawled through the manual from supplier's website, word by word, and can't see it now !

If GB had an Olympic Panic Team, I'd win Gold every time.

Aha - I just found an English only manual on Victron Site - looks better - maybe that's what cbrookson has.

My batteries are 100AH sealed - so assuming Lead Calcium. What charge profile should I be using ?

I just read 16v on internet !

The IP22 has low (14.4v) and high (14.7) settings via mode button on casing. Will one of these be Ok, or should I be mucking about to modify the profile in 'advanced settings' ?
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I have a 100Ah sealed battery, and the IP65 version of the Victron BlueSmart charger, set to the 14.4V profile.
 
Thanks all

I'll set it to 14.4 with mode button.

I notice the IP65 claims 7 stage charging - my IP22 seems to have less I think ??
 
IP65 means it’s weather proof. I have a non smart 7A 12v that does the 7 stages. Nothing to do with the IP rating.
Look up what IP rating is, it has no bearing on the number of stages or voltages.

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Raul said:
IP65 means it’s weather proof. I have a non smart 7A 12v that does the 7 stages. Nothing to do with the IP rating.
Look up what IP rating is, it has no bearing on the number of stages or voltages.
Click to expand...
If you looked up the Victron products, you would see that just like the Victron IP22, the Victron IP65 is a model of Mains Charger.
And just to get you fully up to speed, they also have an IP67 and an IP43 ;)

Why are they called IP22, IP65, IP67 and IP43? Well, probably because that is also the IP rating of the kit as well so I guess it seemed logical so a buyer could chose a charger that would be suitable for their environment?
 
Hoovie said:
If you looked up the Victron products, you would see that just like the Victron IP22, the Victron IP65 is a model of Mains Charger.
And just to get you fully up to speed, they also have an IP67 and an IP43 ;)

Why are they called IP22, IP65, IP67 and IP43? Well, probably because that is also the IP rating of the kit as well so I guess it seemed logical so a buyer could chose a charger that would be suitable for their environment?
Click to expand...
You missed the point, never mind.
 
Raul said:
You missed the point, never mind.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure he did. Victron, for whatever reason, use the IP rating of mains chargers as the model number. When you say a "Viction IP22", you are generally referring to a particular model of mains charger, not actually referring to its IP rating.

In the OP's case, it is all singing and all dancing and will definitely drive gels. You have complete control over the charging regime.
 
cmcardle75 said:
I'm not sure he did. Victron, for whatever reason, use the IP rating of mains chargers as the model number. When you say a "Viction IP22", you are generally referring to a particular model of mains charger, not actually referring to its IP rating.

In the OP's case, it is all singing and all dancing and will definitely drive gels. You have complete control over the charging regime.
Click to expand...
Indeed so,
In the case of the IP65 and IP67 you can fine-tune the settings via the VE.Connect app and bluetooth.
In the case of the IP43, you can do the same and also, as it has a VE.Direct port, connect it to a Venus OS device, such as a Cerbo and monitor it via VRM as well as Bluetooth.
In the case of the IP22 however, you have to be a little careful and get the Blue Smart version to be able to use VE.Connect to configure it beyond pressing the buttons on the unit.
Something to note: The Blue Power IP22 model is not Bluetooth compatible (which can be confusing to anyone not up with the Victron naming standards - "Blue" has nothing to so with Bluetooth for Victron, but "Smart" does. And "Smart" has nothing to do with Bluetooth for any other manufacturer)

The choice of which one to go for tends to be determined by charging ability & price, rather than the IP rating of the IP version.
The IP65 tends to be the smallest - popular as a car battery charger but rarely seen in Motorhomes & Campervans.
The IP22 is the most popular by far for Leisure Battery use and the most flexible (One of my victrons is the IP22 20A (3) - so I can charge 3 independant batteries at the same time - handy for bench work) and goes upto 30A.
The IP67 I am not very familiar with - I think it is a development of the IP65 but not 100% on that.
The IP43 is the most powerful of the IP range of chargers, but is rather pricey. I've never bothered with those personally as the typical person who wants a powerful mains charger usually also wants an inverter, so better to jump right up to the Multiplus range of Charger/Inverters which offers a lot more 'bang for the buck' over a separate quality inverter and IP43 (e.g. in my own van I run a EasyPlus 12/1600, which has a 70A charger).

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Hoovie said:
Indeed so,
In the case of the IP65 and IP67 you can fine-tune the settings via the VE.Connect app and bluetooth.
In the case of the IP43, you can do the same and also, as it has a VE.Direct port, connect it to a Venus OS device, such as a Cerbo and monitor it via VRM as well as Bluetooth.
In the case of the IP22 however, you have to be a little careful and get the Blue Smart version to be able to use VE.Connect to configure it beyond pressing the buttons on the unit.
Something to note: The Blue Power IP22 model is not Bluetooth compatible (which can be confusing to anyone not up with the Victron naming standards - "Blue" has nothing to so with Bluetooth for Victron, but "Smart" does. And "Smart" has nothing to do with Bluetooth for any other manufacturer)

The choice of which one to go for tends to be determined by charging ability & price, rather than the IP rating of the IP version.
The IP65 tends to be the smallest - popular as a car battery charger but rarely seen in Motorhomes & Campervans.
The IP22 is the most popular by far for Leisure Battery use and the most flexible (One of my victrons is the IP22 20A (3) - so I can charge 3 independant batteries at the same time - handy for bench work) and goes upto 30A.
The IP67 I am not very familiar with - I think it is a development of the IP65 but not 100% on that.
The IP43 is the most powerful of the IP range of chargers, but is rather pricey. I've never bothered with those personally as the typical person who wants a powerful mains charger usually also wants an inverter, so better to jump right up to the Multiplus range of Charger/Inverters which offers a lot more 'bang for the buck' over a separate quality inverter and IP43 (e.g. I run a EasyPlus 12/1600, which has a 70A charger.
Click to expand...
See post no 1 on this tread, and see if you can answer it just by the ip rating provided. If you can, I take my hat of to you with a bow.
 
Raul said:
See post no 1 on this tread, and see if you can answer it just by the ip rating provided. If you can, I take my hat of to you with a bow.
Click to expand...
Ok ... See the actual TITLE of the thread (tread?) and see if you can tell what charger is fitted? No need to bow ;)
 
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Thanks Guys

I have it plugged in at home, got it connected to blutooth, and set to 'Normal (14.4v) + Recondition' mode via app.

So far, it seems pretty neat bit of kit.

Will wait to see how long till fully charged, then disconnect and see how long it holds onto the charge !

The aim of all this is to see if my Hab Batts need replaced. Van storage has no EHU, so this is first real chance to assess.
Previously it's been a case of pretty much just guessing SOC after vehicle has been driven.
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Marauder said:
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Thanks Guys

I have it plugged in at home, got it connected to blutooth, and set to 'Normal (14.4v) + Recondition' mode via app.

So far, it seems pretty neat bit of kit.

Will wait to see how long till fully charged, then disconnect and see how long it holds onto the charge !

The aim of all this is to see if my Hab Batts need replaced. Van storage has no EHU, so this is first real chance to assess.
Previously it's been a case of pretty much just guessing SOC after vehicle has been driven.
_
Click to expand...
FWIW, when I bought my new (to me) motorhome it had a pair of 100Ah AGM batteries and they were pretty shagged after around 8 years of use and died prematurely when in use watching TB or whatever.
I put one on the bench, not connected to anything, and I used my IP22 to recondition it (but in a more aggressive way that clicking the button - I set the charge voltage to something like 17V via the App) and after a fair bit of time putting a good old charge in it (much more than 100Ah!), it now holds its charge for months!
The Victron IP22 is indeed a very good bit of kit and as well as doing what I did above, it will also - which is not typical for a battery charger - recharge a battery from completely and totally dead, where most chargers will refuse to start up.
 
Marauder said:
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Thanks Guys

I have it plugged in at home, got it connected to blutooth, and set to 'Normal (14.4v) + Recondition' mode via app.

So far, it seems pretty neat bit of kit.

Will wait to see how long till fully charged, then disconnect and see how long it holds onto the charge !

The aim of all this is to see if my Hab Batts need replaced. Van storage has no EHU, so this is first real chance to assess.
Previously it's been a case of pretty much just guessing SOC after vehicle has been driven.
_
Click to expand...

If you do replace batteries, this is one of the main reasons to get LiFePO4. Almost zero self discharge. Disconnect the hab electrics. Park it in October 80% full. Pick it up in March 79% full. That won't happen with lead acid.

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So now its fully charged and gone into 'storage' mode showing 13.16v @ 0.0amps

but the history section of app says 0 (zero) deep discharges - I thought the deep discharge idea was part of the reconditioning facility ?
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Marauder said:
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So now its fully charged and gone into 'storage' mode showing 13.16v @ 0.0amps

but the history section of app says 0 (zero) deep discharges - I thought the deep discharge idea was part of the reconditioning facility ?
_
Click to expand...
No, recondition is charging at a higher voltage. a charger cannot do a deep discharge - you need some kind of load to absorb the charge. if you have an inverter, connect that and plug in something like a bright (non-LED) 240V bulb and leave until battery dies. Or connect a old car headlight bulb (around 55W) and leave connected until battery gone (make sure bulb not resting on anything flammable!)
 
Marauder said:
So now its fully charged and gone into 'storage' mode showing 13.16v @ 0.0amps

but the history section of app says 0 (zero) deep discharges - I thought the deep discharge idea was part of the reconditioning facility ?
Click to expand...
As Hoovie says, reconditioning is applying a higher voltage than normal charging. It is a way of making sure that each of the six cells in the battery is charged up to the same voltage as the others. There's no way of getting at each cell individually, like you can with a lithium battery with a Battery Management System (BMS), so you apply a maxed out voltage for a short time to jolt them all into equal high voltage.

I don't know of any reason to do a deep discharge just for the sake of it. In the old days, with NiCad batteries they would gradually lose capacity, and a deep discharge was a way to restore the zero level. Not something you need to do with lead-acid batteries. They lose capacity mostly by being left in a discharged state for a long time, like more than a month. There's not much can be done to restore them. To avoid the problem, they need charging to the 100% level every couple of weeks, or every month if in storage.
 
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Thanks Guys.

MHF usually says that LA Batt discharged less than 50% will permanently damage it, I was thinking maybe charger had some tricks to do this safely.

For now (it's down from 13.16 to 13.09 after resting disconnected overnight) I'll accept that it's fully charged, and wait another 24Hrs to see if it holds charge.
_
 
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So the results are in now:
Tues eve - 13.16
Weds eve - 13.07
Thur eve - 13.0
Fri eve - 12.96
Sat morn - 12.95

seems like its consistently losing charge . . . .

Whats your verdict folks ?
_

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Marauder said:
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So the results are in now:
Tues eve - 13.16
Weds eve - 13.07
Thur eve - 13.0
Fri eve - 12.96
Sat morn - 12.95

seems like its consistently losing charge . . . .

Whats your verdict folks ?
_
Click to expand...
you have no load on the battery? If this is a lead battery, it is still fully charged and it is just the surface charge that is slowly dissipating. A lead acid battery at 12.95V after 4 days is not an issue.

What I think you need to do is charge the battery until the charger goes to float and current is minimal. Then remove the charger and put a quick load on the battery, but something with 'meaning', not a tiny LED light. Just need it on there for a short time - maybe 10 seconds. This will take the surface charge away and will be so little in terms of capacity used it can be ignored. And THEN check the voltage. Probably be around 12.7V

If you want to know what the battery will do, you need to do a capacity test ... constant known load for a set time (ideally 5% for 10 hours - so if a 100Ah battery, a load of 5A for 10 hours, then remove load and after around an hour, check the voltage. I would aim for around 12.05V for lead acid at half capacity. I know people show charts with numbers like 12V is dead and 12.4V is half, but I don't believe they are accurate. But that is just my opinion.
 

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