Traction batterys

[955matt]

Traction battery's ,which ones and where best to get one , another of our leisure battery's has died while sking .

Thanks Matt

 

[DiggerJon]

Skiing batteries? That's novel!

 

[scotjimland]

Trojan Flooded Deep-Cycle Batteries

http://www.trojanbattery.com/markets/mr/12v/

where to buy

http://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/brands/trojan-batteries/

 

[jonandshell]

Dyno are a decent brand and a bit cheaper than the Trojans.
If you go for the 30HH 115 Ah or 30XHS 130 Ah models, they have better splashproofed lids.

You can get them through the trade from Easystart Batteries in Corby.

 

[jonandshell]

Also Matt, you really should consider a Sterling A2B or B2B setup to look after them.
Our batteries are on their second van and coming up to 7 years old in May.

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[seanoo]

cheaper here.
Broken Link Removed

 

[mitzimad]

be aware trojans are different dimensions to a lot of "leisure batteries" which seem to be the same sizes as stater batteries you may not have the room for them if your carrier is tight

 

[Dogsense]

Can somebody explain to a novice what is Traction Battery's please.

 

[jonandshell]

Can somebody explain to a novice what is Traction Battery's please.

Basically, industrial quality deep discharge batteries.
Used for golf carts, cherry pickers, pallet trucks, floor sweeping machines, small tow tractors, etc.
They can be safely discharged down to 80% (11.66 v) over and over again with no problems. This gives you more capacity for the same Ah rating leisure battery.
They come in most commonly 6v types requiring two to be fitted in series. 12v models are also available, but not as common.
They last much longer than standard crap leisure batteries.
The disadvantage is they are an open wet lead acid design and need to be installed to prevent splashing and explosive gas build up.

 

[Techno]

I was considering the T105's in a few years time, hadn't realised how cheap they can be. However I can't see any evidence of vent pipe outlets? Do you have to buy modifed caps to direct/pipe gas outdoors.

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[scotjimland]

The disadvantage is they are an open wet lead acid design and need to be installed to prevent splashing and explosive gas build up

correct.. but if that were a concern, Trojan also manufacturer traction gels . .. usually used where there is a risk of capsise or tipping over .. ie mobility scooters etc

NOT that I would recommend .. just pointing out

 

[jonandshell]

be aware trojans are different dimensions to a lot of "leisure batteries" which seem to be the same sizes as stater batteries you may not have the room for them if your carrier is tight

There's a coincidence!!!!!

 

[jonandshell]

I was considering the T105's in a few years time, hadn't realised how cheap they can be. However I can't see any evidence of vent pipe outlets? Do you have to buy modifed caps to direct/pipe gas outdoors.

There's no different caps I am aware of Andy.

Our Dynos live in the garage. There is sufficient air volume and ventilation to not worry about hydrogen buildup.
Well, we haven't gone up in flames yet!!!!

I reckon where your exisisting batteries are would be just fine with the addition of battery boxes to catch any acid splash.

 

[Dogsense]

Thanks John.
Are they recomended for motorhome leisure battery's?
Our located behind the side skirt locker (AutoTrail) is it eceptable ventilation for it?

 

[jonandshell]

Thanks John.
Are they recomended for motorhome leisure battery's?
Our located behind the side skirt locker (AutoTrail) is it eceptable ventilation for it?

It is something only you can judge. Hydrogen is obviously lighter than air, so it needs to be free to dissipate upwards.
The Sargent electrical wiring on Autotrails (and other vans) is woefully thin and creates HUGE voltage drops. You would be wasting your time fitting traction batteries without a charging system and wiring upgrade. The low charging voltages would sulphate your new traction batteries in no time, destroying them.
I anticipate you change leisure batteries regularly too if you are a regular off grid user?

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[Dogsense]

We are new to motorhome (lass then a year) and not change them yet, still mostly on hookup but planing touring Europe and want to get ready to all posbilitys.

 

[jonandshell]

We are new to motorhome (lass then a year) and not change them yet, still mostly on hookup but planing touring Europe and want to get ready to all posbilitys.

If you are planning to use mainly Aires without EHU, it might be worth your while investigating Battery to Battery chargers and solar panels.
If you use the search function at the top of the page, you will find lots of threads to confuse you!

 

[TheDentons]

If you are planning to use mainly Aires without EHU, it might be worth your while investigating Battery to Battery chargers and solar panels.
If you use the search function at the top of the page, you will find lots of threads to confuse you!

Tell me about it A2b or B2b what's the difference whitch one would you fit to charge two or three 110ah batteries

 

[jonandshell]

Tell me about it A2b or B2b what's the difference whitch one would you fit to charge two or three 110ah batteries

We have 3x 115Ah traction batteries and have a 150amp alternator. We have the 160 Amp Sterling Alternator to Battery setup.
At tickover, the charging rate to the traction batteries is 90 amps. This creates rapid recharging but you do need to keep an eye on battery electrolyte levels.
The A2B system is quite difficult to fit in that you have to modify the base vehicles charging circuit to fit it.

The B2B system is a lot simpler and provides 45 amps. I believe there might be a 100 amp model available now of you want faster charging.
If you want high charging rates, you really need decent open lead acid traction monoblocs and you need to watch the electrolyte levels.

As a rule of thumb, select your charging rate based on your battery capacity divided by four.
A standard B2B would be fine for 2x 100 Ah batteries. If you add more, I would check your alternator output and select a bigger charger.

 

[scotjimland]

Tell me about it A2b or B2b what's the difference whitch one would you fit to charge two or three 110ah batteries

to supplement John's advice

The A2B charger is not suitable for a modern van

from the Sterling site

Please note: The alternator to battery charger is an easy way to add advanced charging to many vehicle and engines, it is still very much suitable for most American Vehicles and most marine and other engines, but it is not suitable for modern vehicles / vans sold in Europe (Ford, VW, Merc, Renault, Citroen etc) and Japanese vehicles which have the new Euro Re Generative braking control systems fitted to the vehicle, for these vehicles you must use the Battery to Battery charger range off products, look for the Re-Generative Friendly Braking logo.

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[jonandshell]

Good point Jim, its a good job our 2010 Transit isn't modern!!!!!!

In the grand scheme of things, an alternator isn't going to really provide much regenerative braking. Also, if your starter battery is fully charged, where will the output be dumped? Current electric retarders on IC engined vehicles work by dumping into an electromagnetic coil.
I can understand regen braking working on a hybrid and it has been used on full electric vehicles for years.
If these systems are being fitted, they really are clutching at straws for every last bit of efficiency!

 

[scotjimland]

Good point Jim, its a good job our 2010 Transit isn't modern!!!!!!

In the grand scheme of things, an alternator isn't going to really provide much regenerative braking. Also, if your starter battery is fully charged, where will the output be dumped? Current electric retarders on IC engined vehicles work by dumping into an electromagnetic coil.
I can understand regen braking working on a hybrid and it has been used on full electric vehicles for years.
If these systems are being fitted, they really are clutching at straws for every last bit of efficiency!

I'll take your word for it John.. in the modern parlance.. it's outside my comfort zone ..

 

[jonandshell]

Further to my last post, wouldn't it make more sense to have an alternator only produce charge on overrun and not charge when engine power is required? This would increase efficiency and reduce fuel consumption slightly.
Maybe this is what is being done? 'Regenerative Braking' might be the marketing bull for the idea!

 

[Daifuse]

I can't quote any figures for my M/H but when I had the narrowboat, after running the engine for say, 2hrs while cruising, the charge into my starter battery + leisure batteries was down to less than 2 amps. On the basis of 745 watts per horsepower this would seem to be about 28 watts or 1/26 of a horsepower. I don't think removing the alternator load from an engine would have much effect on economy or provide much regenerative braking assistance when re-connected! (Not than a boat has brakes anyway) Even when starting off, the charge to the batteries was only 20 amps or so for about 5 minutes.

 

[TheDentons]

I spoke to sterling and they mentioned regenative units have to find out if our van uses this system

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[jonandshell]

Our Transit supposedly has 'smart charging'. It supposedly only works with silver calcium batteries if you believe what you read on the forums!
The Sterling A2B works just fine!

 

[Shovelheadrob]

Our Transit supposedly has 'smart charging'. It supposedly only works with silver calcium batteries if you believe what you read on the forums!
The Sterling A2B works just fine!

I have a 2012 Transit with, according to the sales blurb, "smart charging" it also came with headlights permanently on as DRLs, I asked the Ford technical dept how can smart charging work with a constant drain, they could not provide a satisfactory explanation.
Thanks for bringing the Sterling A2B charging system to my attention, I shall be thinking about installing something like that for the 5er.

 

[Peter A Forbes]

I'm not a big fan of traction batteries, the better ones tend to need a more specific charging regime to 'standard' wet batteries, and for the money you'd be as well using 'standard' wet batteries and using them until they drop.

True traction batteries are normally tubular plate types with a fairly 'robust' charging regime which deliberately gases the battery to stir the electrolyte and prevent stratification of the fluid.

While we have access to such batteries in the trade I've always used conventional batteries and looked after them.

Peter