To follow new DVLA guidelines or not?

[CHoptroff]

Me and my girlfriend are in the process of converting a 2011 Ford Transit Jumbo into a home on wheels ready for a long trip round europe next summer.

We were nearing completion and found out last week that they have changed the guidelines to change the V5 logbook from a 'panel van' to a 'motor caravan'.

If you have not seen these guidelines the link to Gov website is here: https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...van/converting-a-vehicle-into-a-motor-caravan

We were following the now old guidelines to a tee and had every intention of changing it to a motor caravan on the logbook. But now they have introduced these new guidelines we do not meet them. The main problem we are facing is a second window on one side of the van (we have one on each side). And we didn't want to fork out for an awning and did not want to put any vinyl stickers on the exterior.

Now the question is do we rip out part of what we have done to add a window, get and awning and add stickers to meet the guidelines or just carry on doing what we were doing and not have it as a camper on the logbook?

Our main concern is resale (will it put potential buyers off) or will people not care if it looks and works like a campervan?

 

[Jim]

Hi, CHoptroff your post has only just gone live. We moderate posts from new members that have links in them in our fight against spam. Sorry for the delay, I hope you get the answers you need.

 

[Allanm]

a couple of things to consider here. If you use a ferry, there may well be a higher charge for a van rather than a camper van and your insurance company might not be happy insuring your vehicle as a van when it is really a camper van.

Other than that, my preference would be to keep it as it is.

 

[PeteH]

Cant Help much, but try doing a search on the forums. there was a lot of postings recently around this subject.

 

[gus-lopez]

Why not try to fit a window without touching anything. It says " 2 on one side" it doesn't state sizes.

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[HandyAndy]

Add the stickers and also add a 3d looking "window" sticker on the side required, take some pics from the outside being careful to be "square on" to the side with the window and be sure not to include a pic of the interior of that side of the van without the window... then send all the other pictures in as required for the change..

Take the stickers off afterwards if you want to..

The worst they can do is say no.

 

[JJ20]

If it was me I'd do the new requirements and change it so it's a camper on paper, if you have an accident and it's insured as a van but is infact a camper they probably won't pay out. And another reason being commercial vehicle insurance is sky high compared to campervan insurance.

 

[PeteH]

Fit a small window outside, It does not have to function?. Use a "temporary" Fitting, Remove later if required?. As said, Graphics could be removed later, if not to your liking.

All a bit like modern Driving tests, You are no longer taught to drive, JUST to past the Test!.

 

[Yorkshire Puds]

Photoshop

 

[Johnen]

An awning is not necessary, just stick an awning rail on the side of the van. There is some confusion as to whether two windows are necessary or does it mean two on one side. As far as ferry crossings go I have never been queried about my conversion even when it was registered as a van. In fact our first trip abroad in the van had two windows and hekis fitted, inside was empty, we slept on a mattress on the floor and cooked on a camping cooker.

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[chaser]

Add the stickers and also add a 3d looking "window" sticker on the side required, take some pics from the outside being careful to be "square on" to the side with the window and be sure not to include a pic of the interior of that side of the van without the window... then send all the other pictures in as required for the change..

Take the stickers off afterwards if you want to..

The worst they can do is say no.

Don't want an argument, but this is the sort of thing that has made the regulations more stringent, it used to be pretty easy till people started putting things on Facebook and similar about how to get round the rules, by doing what you recommend, as if DVLA staff don't read these website things.

 

[Reallyretired]

Regrettably they want an internal photo showing you have two windows. Too many windows do reduce the flexibility of the internal arrangements so if I was converting one now I would plan to have two windows on one side and none on the other which would meet the requirements.

 

[spacemaker]

unfortunately it is what it is and it seems they are being very strict on the rules. is there a minimum size for the windows? can you not squeeze one in? and get some 'I hate the DVLA' stickers of Ebay

 

[GWAYGWAY]

Have stick on motorhome window graphic plus temporary graphics off eBay and kill two birds etc. They want to play silly buggers then do the same, just make sure the photos do not show discrepancies/

 

[CHoptroff]

Thanks for everyones help. I've read in a few places that you don't have to meet all the exterior guidelines. So might leave the window and put loads of vinyls over it and maybe some awning rails then see what happens. Can remove the stickers after I've sent off for the logbook.

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[mikebeaches]

The key words in the DVLA note: '..intended to provide guidance on what DVLA expects...'

In other words, not absolute requirements.

I would say the majority of professionally produced campervans and motorhomes do not come with an awning or awning rail as standard. Our Rapido van certainly doesn't have one and nor did our previous Chausson coachbuilt.

And there are campervans from some of the largest converters that only have one side window on each side eg various Dreamer (Rapido) models:

Découvrez le D43 Up, un fourgon parfait pour vous évader

www.dreamer-van.fr

Van 4 places, penderie et salle de bain, fourgon aménagé modulable

www.dreamer-van.fr

Fourgon aménagé 4 places tout confort avec salle de bain fixe

www.dreamer-van.fr

 

[Mikecarruthers]

Hi all,
The rules when a vehicle is presented for MOT as to whether it is a van or a camper/motorhome is has it got a permanent fitted cooker and is it kitted out as a camper inside because if it is a van then it’s a different test for brakes and also if the vehicle was purchased as a van and the VAT was claimed back and you fit windows to the rear then hmrc will want the vat back so be careful even if you did not originally purchase the vehicle the rules still apply

 

[HandyAndy]

Don't want an argument, but this is the sort of thing that has made the regulations more stringent, it used to be pretty easy till people started putting things on Facebook and similar about how to get round the rules, by doing what you recommend, as if DVLA staff don't read these website things.

Bollocks to the rules when the rules are stupid..
Rules are made to be bent. and they are suggestions not out and out set in stone stipulations

 

[Mikecarruthers]

I haven’t recommended any way round things I have only stated what I know to be facts and as with all things in life it will only bite you in the arse if it goes wrong

 

[Next Stop]

As for your windows, you can now get "dummy" windows which look like the real thing, they are just completely blacked out glass they can be bonded to a panel without having to cut anything out.

http://www.leisurevehiclewindows.co.uk/

Halfway down the page they are listed....

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[Scotch mist]

If it was me I'd do the new requirements and change it so it's a camper on paper, if you have an accident and it's insured as a van but is infact a camper they probably won't pay out. And another reason being commercial vehicle insurance is sky high compared to campervan insurance.

I have owned a Renault master from new , when I retired & shut my business I changed the insurance from commercial to domestic and it went down to £180 a drop of £40

 

[JJ20]

I have owned a Renault master from new , when I retired & shut my business I changed the insurance from commercial to domestic and it went down to £180 a drop of £40

Surprises me, my vw transporter insurance dropped £280 with adrian flux when I had it converted to a camper.

 

[CHoptroff]

As for your windows, you can now get "dummy" windows which look like the real thing, they are just completely blacked out glass they can be bonded to a panel without having to cut anything out.

http://www.leisurevehiclewindows.co.uk/

Halfway down the page they are listed....

That's a good idea. Hadn't even thought of that. We already have two of those windows with actual holes cut out. So would fit nicely

 

[Mikecarruthers]

280 quids in the pocket is better than a kick in the undercarriage I don’t know if there is any road tax savings to be had having said that have you seen the new road tax for new motorhomes after September it’s gone up to 2100 pounds for the first year and 495 for the new four years I got my new one in July and that’s only 220 pounds so if anyone is going to buy a new one have a look round to see if there are any pre registered one out there

 

[tacr2man]

OP you need to read carefully what is required and try to conform , then submit , if its refused then you can either modify and resubmit , or use it and test and insure it as a campervan . DVLA have already stated that body appearance (van with windows) on V5 will not affect any legal issues it can still be used as converted , but makes you the can carrier for compliance.

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[34127]

There will be many in the same situation and insurance shouldn't be a problem once the insurance companies have adapted to the changes in classification guidelines as they will wanting your business.

This part of the guidelines is of interest.
It is important to remember that even if the vehicle’s body type is not changed to ‘motor caravan’, the vehicle can still be used for this purpose as long as the keeper is satisfied the converted vehicle meets the required internal features for motor caravans.

The key thing to remember is that the DVLA guidelines are simply saying that the vehicle has to look like a motor caravan so that the police or other enforcement officers are able to identify what type of vehicle it is.

 

[Potty]

One thing I notice nobody has mentioned is that speed limits are lower for vans than for motor homes.

 

[Nixdorfer]

Meant to send off ours ages ago and never did as didnt affect insurance on a traders policy. Ours has the windows the stickers and awning cador rail etc. The only issue is no high roof.

As some say they are guidelines is there a chance they'll still accept it or is it going to come back as a van with windows.

Plan to sell it so seeing if worthwhile

 

[Wild Brambles]

I'm lucky in that my van is an ex-crew van, so it has an opening window, and a secondary window on each side. If it only had one, I think I would add a porthole. that would be much easier to fit.. I don't want an awning,but what constitutes an awning rail - could it be used to hang an extra panel, or even provide a more secure base for a roof rack?

I don't want swirls and swooshes all over the side of the van, but would pin stripes, or other discrete decorations be acceptable for the decals?

 

[chaser]

Bollocks to the rules when the rules are stupid..
Rules are made to be bent. and they are suggestions not out and out set in stone stipulations

Ok, fine, but you won't get it changed if you use that attitude with DVLA, I'm afraid.

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