The Mockery of the Southampton LEZ

[jezport]

Vehicles are submitted to LEZ rules.
Just look at the pollution caused while cruise ships stand at port. The grey smoke is visible right across the sky.

 

[Coastal Cruiser.]

They bring a lot of revenue into Southampton Council so are exempt

 

[Wh05apk]

That's obviously "good" pollution then

 

[grasscutter]

Sat on the beach yesterday and the whole horizon from east of the Isle of Wight through to Portsmouth and Southampton displayed a low sitting band of brown pollution.

 

[GJH]

Vehicles are submitted to LEZ rules.
Just look at the pollution caused while cruise ships stand at port. The grey smoke is visible right across the sky.

The answer, then, is to lobby the government to pass legislation which subjects cruise ships to similar charges.

They bring a lot of revenue into Southampton Council so are exempt

It's nothing to do with Southampton Council.
There are no emission charges on cruise ships in any UK ports because the UK government has not passed legislation enabling charges to be levied.

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[sueandjohn]

Sadly we saw a similar thing on the Mosel . We had to move from a stellplatz because the diesal pollution from engines running 24/24. In fact we said we would never take a river cruise because of the pollution we encounter

 

[Oldrat]

A LEZ is the same as smoking in restaurants being allowed if you pay.

 

[DuxDeluxe]

Vehicles are submitted to LEZ rules.
Just look at the pollution caused while cruise ships stand at port. The grey smoke is visible right across the sky.View attachment 806252

The answer, then, is to lobby the government to pass legislation which subjects cruise ships to similar charges.

It's nothing to do with Southampton Council.
There are no emission charges on cruise ships in any UK ports because the UK government has not passed legislation enabling charges to be levied.

That pollution has next to nothing to do with cruise ships. They utilise shore power in the cruise terminals when berthed since last year.

 

[jezport]

They bring a lot of revenue into Southampton Council so are exempt

Yes, but it's there written in black and yellow smoke! Newer vessels like P and O Iona are running on clean LNG so no smoke!

That pollution has next to nothing to do with cruise ships. They utilise shore power in the cruise terminals when berthed since last year.

Look at the photo, the 2 ships have been stood all morning with black/brown smoke. Heres a closer photo.

 

[Mzracer]

That pollution has next to nothing to do with cruise ships. They utilise shore power in the cruise terminals when berthed since last year.

I live right under that plum of pollution, just to the left and out of the photo, I can promise you that those cruise liners don't all run on shore power, they are a complete and utter nuisance.

Don't even start on about them bringing employment to the city as there is no real unemployment in Southampton and never has been since the early 1980's.

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[DuxDeluxe]

I live right under that plum of pollution, just to the left and out of the photo, I can promise you that those cruise liners don't all run on shore power, they are a complete and utter nuisance.

Don't even start on about them bringing employment to the city as there is no real unemployment in Southampton and never has been since the early 1980's.

It is a requirement for both cruise terminals, so the Port authorities must have misinformed me

 

[DuxDeluxe]

Yes, but it's there written in black and yellow smoke! Newer vessels like P and O Iona are running on clean LNG so no smoke!

Look at the photo, the 2 ships have been stood all morning with black/brown smoke. Heres a closer photo.View attachment 806289

It will take a massive amount more than that to cause the pollution that you are talking about

 

[Mzracer]

so the Port authorities must have misinformed me

Quite likely, some are defo on shore power but I remember reading in the Southern Evening Echo that not all cruise liners have the right equipment to hook up to shore power, so I guess that means the older ones.

Don't even get me started about the ridiculous tunes that they play on the ships horns that can be heard two miles away or the firework displays that happen probably every other week.

Like I say a complete nuisance.

 

[Mzracer]

It will take a massive amount more than that to cause the pollution that you are talking about

I remember reading once that a car carrier travelling from Sweden to the UK would emit more pollution in that one sailing than all the cars it was carrying would emit in their whole working lives.

You then need to understand some about the local geography, the wind direction in Southampton is very much SW, behind the city the land climbs up to Winchester (North of the city) , this feature is really characterised by the Twyford gap, this bunches up the airborne pollution over the Southampton city area. There are a number of contributors to this pollution but the cruise liners play more than their fair share.

The same used to happen in Los Angeles with the summer winds blowing the pollution up against the mountains.

I would be very happy if the cruise lines pushed off to Portsmouth and made their mess down there.

 

[DuxDeluxe]

I remember reading once that a car carrier travelling from Sweden to the UK would emit more pollution in that one sailing than all the cars it was carrying would emit in their whole working lives.

You then need to understand some about the local geography, the wind direction in Southampton is very much SW, behind the city the land climbs up to Winchester (North of the city) , this feature is really characterised by the Twyford gap, this bunches up the airborne pollution over the Southampton city area. There are a number of contributors to this pollution but the cruise liners play more than their fair share.

The same used to happen in Los Angeles with the summer winds blowing the pollution up against the mountains.

I would be very happy if the cruise lines pushed off to Portsmouth and made their mess down there.

I know a bit more than you assume, having been involved in ships fuels, alternative fuels, exhaust gas scrubbers, pollution regulations and quality for most of my working life but can't be bothered to argue about it any more but the exhaust gas pollution from a car carrier is not all stored up to be pushed out over southampton

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[jezport]

It will take a massive amount more than that to cause the pollution that you are talking about

You can clearly see the trails of smoke heading from the ships right across the horizon. You don't need any specialist equipment. And thos morning it was mainly just 2 ships causing it. In high season there could be 8 or more!

 

[Mzracer]

Well I am so pleased to be talking to an expert, you assume that I know little about the subjects as well. I never said the exhaust gas from the car carrier was stored up to be deposited over Southampton, I merely said that ship pollution is very high., you just read it that way to suit your argument.

Where I do have a big advantage over you is living about two to three miles from where those photo's are taken and having lived in Southern Hampshire for over 60 years then I know a fair bit about the area.

 

[Mzracer]

You can clearly see the trails of smoke heading from the ships right across the horizon. You don't need any specialist equipment. And thos morning it was mainly just 2 ships causing it. In high season there could be 8 or more!

You are quite right and so called experts on this forum will tell you that the ships are on shore power and that the pollution from the ships is not to be taken too seriously, well it was serious enough for the shore power equipment to be installed but not all ships have the necessary ship side hardware to utilise shore power hence the pollution trails that you point out.

 

[makems]

A LEZ is the same as smoking in restaurants being allowed if you pay.

A more accurate analogy is a “no pissing” area in a swimming pool

 

[Tombola]

Ahhh..but are the ships in the clean air zone..?

Same as are all the cars trucks and motorhomes that skirt the city.

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[Dilbert]

Well I am so pleased to be talking to an expert, you assume that I know little about the subjects as well. I never said the exhaust gas from the car carrier was stored up to be deposited over Southampton, I merely said that ship pollution is very high., you just read it that way to suit your argument.

Where I do have a big advantage over you is living about two to three miles from where those photo's are taken and having lived in Southern Hampshire for over 60 years then I know a fair bit about the area.

I second that as a millbrook resident . Having the windows open in the current hot weather i lay in bed listening to containers hitting the concrete with the background noise of the badly surfaced M271. The cruise ships don’t seem to bring much employment apart from zero hour agency luggage porter jobs.

 

[Tea Bag]

Quite likely, some are defo on shore power but I remember reading in the Southern Evening Echo that not all cruise liners have the right equipment to hook up to shore power, so I guess that means the older ones.

Don't even get me started about the ridiculous tunes that they play on the ships horns that can be heard two miles away or the firework displays that happen probably every other week.

Like I say a complete nuisance.

Hi.
We lived down there for a while. Two cruise liners went down together one evening,one of them was famous for something and it was advertised in the local paper,we went to just below Hythe our nearest point It was a SUPER send off, there was not a spare space on the banks of Southampton water. Like everthing else,people have likes and dislikes,lets stop Nuclear Power stations...... Wherever they seem to blow up in the world,the sheep in Derbyshire used to glow in the dark... Bring back Howards Way...?
Tea Bag

 

[windboy]

As a matter of interest is a lez in effect at the moment in Southampton cos it does't appear on any checker, I ask because I occasionally travel there?

 

[Dilbert]

As a matter of interest is a lez in effect at the moment in Southampton cos it does't appear on any checker, I ask because I occasionally travel there?

Not at the moment, it was mooted a few years ago but the shipping movements, nearby M27 M271 M3 motorways put the idea back on the shelf……oh and Eastleigh airport

 

[windboy]

Not at the moment, it was mooted a few years ago but the shipping movements, nearby M27 M271 M3 motorways put the idea back on the shelf……

Thankyou, that was my understanding.

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[TheAleMan]

That's obviously "good" pollution then

Yes, the exact same good pollution that’s in the London Underground system too.

 

[Dilbert]

Hi.
We lived down there for a while. Two cruise liners went down together one evening,one of them was famous for something and it was advertised in the local paper,we went to just below Hythe our nearest point It was a SUPER send off, there was not a spare space on the banks of Southampton water. Like everthing else,people have likes and dislikes,lets stop Nuclear Power stations...... Wherever they seem to blow up in the world,the sheep in Derbyshire used to glow in the dark... Bring back Howards Way...?
Tea Bag

We used to creep in to the docks to watch the tugs turning the the big ones round by the dry dock. They didn’t have much room to play with!

 

[Tombola]

As a matter of interest is a lez in effect at the moment in Southampton cos it does't appear on any checker, I ask because I occasionally travel there?

but they do operate their own CAZ I believe
clean air zone

 

[TDub49]

Here's the facts about the non existent LEZ/CAZ. https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/fl...on-s-decision-not-to-introduce-clean-air-zone

Strange no mention of the Fawley refinery just a few miles south down Southampton Water which also spews out toxic nonsense (but it helps keep our cars and motorhomes on the road and our aircraft in the sky). South/SouthEasterly winds are not unknown and blow the rubbish towards the City.

Having lived and sailed in the area for over 40 years I can safely say from direct observation that:
- shore power or not, cruise liners are often running auxiliary power. Good to see more and more "clean" ones coming along but they pollute in many less direct ways as well. e.g. It's not unusual for five or more liners to be in port at the same time and all planning on leaving within a couple of hours of each other. Result = 15000 or so people in mostly cars and taxis trying to get aboard and traffic gridlocked around the city. The super loud "tunes" played on foghorns are one thing but so to is the belting disco music and inane DJ-ing.

Still, no doubt someone benefits from it all, tho' it is difficult to see in Southampton, which is currently facing a financial crisis as the council runs out of funding.

 

[grasscutter]

That pollution has next to nothing to do with cruise ships. They utilise shore power in the cruise terminals when berthed since last year.

Sadly not in Southampton. They run on generators when in port.

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