The dreaded injector failure strikes again (1 Viewer)

[Bern8]

I’m interested in a Rob Drew drip tray if there is a chance of it being available. Someone advised me to look on the Bailey Adamo group on Facebook to see something like this but the group is restricted to owners so I didn’t pursue it on there.

Strangely I thought moving from a Ducato base to Ford avoided the common problems like this. Wrong again !

Peter, if you want me to message him then send me a PM with your email address and I will pass it on.

 

[Chris Sykes]

If you stay away from buying Supermarket diesel and always buy premium diesel products (with the extra cleaning adatives) it dramatically reduces the risk of an injector failure - an RAC engineer once told me that they are forbidden from using supermarket diesel in RAC owned vehicles because their statistics show that injectors run exclusively on premium diesel last approx twice as long as injectors running exclusively on Supermarket diesel

 

[Bern8]

If you stay away from buying Supermarket diesel and always buy premium diesel products (with the extra cleaning adatives) it dramatically reduces the risk of an injector failure - an RAC engineer once told me that they are forbidden from using supermarket diesel in RAC owned vehicles because their statistics show that injectors run exclusively on premium diesel last approx twice as long as injectors running exclusively on Supermarket diesel

So mine would have lasted less than 12,000 miles instead of 6,000 .

 

[WASPES]

Peter, if you want me to message him then send me a PM with your email address and I will pass it on.

I bought one of someone else thanks

 

[Howard B]

If you stay away from buying Supermarket diesel and always buy premium diesel products (with the extra cleaning adatives) it dramatically reduces the risk of an injector failure - an RAC engineer once told me that they are forbidden from using supermarket diesel in RAC owned vehicles because their statistics show that injectors run exclusively on premium diesel last approx twice as long as injectors running exclusively on Supermarket diesel

Keep hearing these claims about supermarket fuels, but does anyone have access to any independent reports which show they are inferior?

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[starquake]

If you stay away from buying Supermarket diesel and always buy premium diesel products (with the extra cleaning adatives) it dramatically reduces the risk of an injector failure - an RAC engineer once told me that they are forbidden from using supermarket diesel in RAC owned vehicles because their statistics show that injectors run exclusively on premium diesel last approx twice as long as injectors running exclusively on Supermarket diesel

I would say this is true based on my personal experience;

Ran a Merc diesel on almost exclusively premium Diesel (Costco, or BP). One time had to fill in Tesco as BP out, and Costco beyond my range, and no premium offerred... filled with Tesco diesel, no joking 200 miles down road, injector failure on that tank. Coincidence? Possibly, but the I'd previously used Tesco once and got 15mpg less on the engine so the premium diesel was well worth it (same commute weekly).

Worth noting also not all supermarket diesels are bad, Costco is good, Sainsburys can also be okay. Avoid for us is Tesco and Co-op.

 

[BeeHappy]

I would say this is true based on my personal experience;

Ran a Merc diesel on almost exclusively premium Diesel (Costco, or BP). One time had to fill in Tesco as BP out, and Costco beyond my range, and no premium offerred... filled with Tesco diesel, no joking 200 miles down road, injector failure on that tank. Coincidence? Possibly, but the I'd previously used Tesco once and got 15mpg less on the engine so the premium diesel was well worth it (same commute weekly).

Worth noting also not all supermarket diesels are bad, Costco is good, Sainsburys can also be okay. Avoid for us is Tesco and Co-op.

I have been driving diesels for the past 20 years, at least 250k miles… almost exclusively on supermarket diesel and am yet to have an injector fail… it’s all refined in the same refineries…

 

[Tony50]

I would say this is true based on my personal experience;

Ran a Merc diesel on almost exclusively premium Diesel (Costco, or BP). One time had to fill in Tesco as BP out, and Costco beyond my range, and no premium offerred... filled with Tesco diesel, no joking 200 miles down road, injector failure on that tank. Coincidence? Possibly, but the I'd previously used Tesco once and got 15mpg less on the engine so the premium diesel was well worth it (same commute weekly).

Worth noting also not all supermarket diesels are bad, Costco is good, Sainsburys can also be okay. Avoid for us is Tesco and Co-op.

I run my Volvo XC60 year 2009, 83000 miles on Supermarket diesel never had a problem, all diesel is the same quality it's the additives that is in premium so called products that you can buy at the pumps.
When a tanker gets refilled that's when ordinary diesel gets put in tanker ,then if it's sold as a premium product additives are injected into the tanker so I believe.

 

[Jane And Rog]

Keep hearing these claims about supermarket fuels, but does anyone have access to any independent reports which show they are inferior?

Just checked on Which and they say this:

"When it comes to reducing costs, opting for cheaper supermarket unleaded is a convenient way to save a few pounds every time you fill up. But should you be concerned about the quality of the fuel you’re using?

The short answer is no. All unleaded fuel sold in the UK conforms to the same British Standards, so you shouldn’t consider supermarket fuel to be below par.

However, there are small differences between fuels. These could offer subtle benefits, depending on what sort of car you drive."

 

[starquake]

I have been driving diesels for the past 20 years, at least 250k miles… almost exclusively on supermarket diesel and am yet to have an injector fail… it’s all refined in the same refineries…

May be worth an inspection of your cylinders with a boroscope, I bet yours are coked, where a premium diesel fuelled vehicle is likely still shiny. The additives do make a difference, I've literally seen (ex oil company man) internal lab work comparing supermarket fuels after 20k miles with boroscopes and the wear differences are quite different. Premium diesel lubricates more (and thats teh key point, given diesel is also a lubricant for the engine).

And yes, it's all the same base fuel. The additiive mix is hwoever different for each retailer, and each premium fuel brand. BP and Shell premium is very different from each other.

For unleaded I tend to agree with Which as it's not a lubricant it's only really worth premium petrol if your car needs the extra octane rating (some cars like Subarus map better with them, and Ferraris etc).

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[Howard B]

Premium diesel lubricates more (and thats teh key point, given diesel is also a lubricant for the engine).

As i recall from my apprenticeship 40+ years ago the diesel only lubricated parts of the fuel injection pump & injectors.

 

[BeeHappy]

As i recall from my apprenticeship 40+ years ago the diesel only lubricated parts of the fuel injection pump & injectors.

Agree, by the time it’s atomised through the injector into the piston at TDC to auto ignite it’s not going to provide any lubrication to the cylinder, it’s just gonna burn

 

[BeeHappy]

May be worth an inspection of your cylinders with a boroscope, I bet yours are coked, where a premium diesel fuelled vehicle is likely still shiny. The additives do make a difference, I've literally seen (ex oil company man) internal lab work comparing supermarket fuels after 20k miles with boroscopes and the wear differences are quite different. Premium diesel lubricates more (and thats teh key point, given diesel is also a lubricant for the engine).

And yes, it's all the same base fuel. The additiive mix is hwoever different for each retailer, and each premium fuel brand. BP and Shell premium is very different from each other.

For unleaded I tend to agree with Which as it's not a lubricant it's only really worth premium petrol if your car needs the extra octane rating (some cars like Subarus map better with them, and Ferraris etc).

So was this test bench comparison, same engine, same load, same number of hours running, only difference being the fuel supplied!?

 

[starquake]

So was this test bench comparison, same engine, same load, same number of hours running, only difference being the fuel supplied!?

I believe so, it was on the wall of the lab that ran the tests (on the packages) at the time. They ran many such comparisons over the years when I still worked there. (and the pics on the walls were of various components on their own additives compared with fuel from competitiors). As they were the team that developed the additives they were always testing the changes to the additive packages over the years too.

Rather obviously I'd be breaking a NDA if I had photos of it, but it does exist in a certain oil firms lab on the wall (or did when I worked there).

 

[Stoosal]

After taking all types of engines apart for the best part of 40 years I can’t tell which ones run on different branded fuels…….. I can usually tell which ones have been well serviced etc but brands of fuel…..no.

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[BeeHappy]

I believe so, it was on the wall of the lab that ran the tests (on the packages) at the time. They ran many such comparisons over the years when I still worked there. (and the pics on the walls were of various components on their own additives compared with fuel from competitiors). As they were the team that developed the additives they were always testing the changes to the additive packages over the years too.

Rather obviously I'd be breaking a NDA if I had photos of it, but it does exist in a certain oil firms lab on the wall (or did when I worked there).

If they had such compelling back to back test data why was it never shown in advertising… I don’t recall ever seeing such information. On some bottles additives there are pictures of a dirty piston and a clean one but they never seem to provide much in the way of data to back up the claims, just a couple of pictures that could be from anything!!

 

[Tony50]

The biggest danger to an engine especially diesel is the driver ,revving the engine when it's first started from cold, if you have ever been on a Wellworthy piston course and seen the damage done to pistons and bores from revving cold engines you wouldn't rev a cold engine to high.

 

[starquake]

If they had such compelling back to back test data why was it never shown in advertising… I don’t recall ever seeing such information. On some bottles additives there are pictures of a dirty piston and a clean one but they never seem to provide much in the way of data to back up the claims, just a couple of pictures that could be from anything!!

I suspect because advertising rules disallow people to slander other oil manufacturers, ditto advetisement. It's also a bad look for a company to do so, and PR is everything to oil firms.

Who knows which of above was reason, but those same pictures on additive bottles are similar to the lab pictures I saw ...
I know a lot of people at old work made a lot of money in those addititive labs, if it was for nothing, I'm sure they would all be out of work quickly given oil firms value profit over everything.

But it doesn't change my point -> there are differences in the additivies between Tesco value fuel and a premium diesel from any manufacturer.. yuo could potentially fix some of that with your own additive adds to the tank, but the premium fuel basically already has similar already pre-blended.
Anyone who hasn't tried premium fuel for a few tanks in my opinion at least should do so, you may be surprised with the extra mpg on the second tank (it was a signifivant difference on my testing on my own commutes, nearly 100 miles a tank more.

 

[BeeHappy]

I suspect because advertising rules disallow people to slander other oil manufacturers, ditto advetisement. It's also a bad look for a company to do so, and PR is everything to oil firms.

Who knows which of above was reason, but those same pictures on additive bottles are similar to the lab pictures I saw ...
I know a lot of people at old work made a lot of money in those addititive labs, if it was for nothing, I'm sure they would all be out of work quickly given oil firms value profit over everything.

But it doesn't change my point -> there are differences in the additivies between Tesco value fuel and a premium diesel from any manufacturer.. yuo could potentially fix some of that with your own additive adds to the tank, but the premium fuel basically already has similar already pre-blended.
Anyone who hasn't tried premium fuel for a few tanks in my opinion at least should do so, you may be surprised with the extra mpg on the second tank (it was a signifivant difference on my testing on my own commutes, nearly 100 miles a tank more.

I might try a tank again sometime, but it is very hard to get a good back to back test. The driving, traffic, weather all have a big impact on the mpg.

 

[nicholsong]

An anecdote on injectors: I once had one fail on my boat in 1995?(Merc OM 636 1976) in Greece, took it back to London, was told go Watson's in Wimbledon. Boss looked at it, 'That's an old Merc injector''. I thought - I am in the right 'shop here. Come back tomorrow - they are used to quick turnarounds for trucks.

He phoned me back later to say they could not find the settings. I called Merc rep on S. Coast who used to service this engine and he had the settings off the top of his head.

How many engineers are round like that now? Come to that, how many engines like that are around today? Originally designed by German PoW at end of WWII. It is still running in the boat under my friends care and ownership.

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[Bern8]

Update - With the motorhome going into the approved repairers, they diagnosed No1 fuel injector had gone down and they could replace it under their agreement with Ford. I told them no and that I wanted all 4 changing. I phoned Ford and opened a case telling the guy as 1/ my warranty had nearly expired & 2/ if another injector failed and I was on the motorway with my 2 grandsons with us and went into limp mode then I dread to think what would of happened.
It’s been 6 days of waiting but now Ford have been great in getting this sorted. They have agreed to change all 4 injectors under warranty. He told me their tech dept said with it being a MH that all 4 should be changed. This has now been done and I pick up the MH tomorrow.
Both the garage (Motorsave in Swinton, Manchester) & Ford have got this sorted within a week. I can’t complain.

 

[starquake]

Update - With the motorhome going into the approved repairers, they diagnosed No1 fuel injector had gone down and they could replace it under their agreement with Ford. I told them no and that I wanted all 4 changing. I phoned Ford and opened a case telling the guy as 1/ my warranty had nearly expired & 2/ if another injector failed and I was on the motorway with my 2 grandsons with us and went into limp mode then I dread to think what would of happened.
It’s been 6 days of waiting but now Ford have been great in getting this sorted. They have agreed to change all 4 injectors under warranty. He told me their tech dept said with it being a MH that all 4 should be changed. This has now been done and I pick up the MH tomorrow.
Both the garage (Motorsave in Swinton, Manchester) & Ford have got this sorted within a week. I can’t complain.

Glad to hear of a good garage. They are far too rare these days.