Solar Upgrade

[PeteMallorca]

Hi, I'm new here but have been told that you guys know everything .

I've just bought a second hand Benimar sport 340. There's a problem with the solar system. Ther is "0" voltage on the wires from the panels and there are no connections or damage to the cable, up to the roof.

I have 2 new 100ah jell batteries.

I am thinking that repairing things could start costing more than I would like. So my thoughts are to replace the system.

I live in the van and wander from place to place in Mallorca. So although we get a lot of sun, I want to use the air con at times and have AC available for things like iron and fans.

I was thinking to replace the batteries with lithium, maybe 2 x 200ah. Then add a controller and panels to match them.

Any suggestions for setup, manufacturers or suppliers? Also, please feel free to give warnings, from experience.

Thanks for reading this and if you can help, Thank You.

Peter.

 

[PeteMallorca]

I forgot to mention. At the moment I have a "Steca PR3030' controller and a spannungswandler 3000 watt inverter.

 

[Gaston aires]

First things first. Start with the solar panels. Using a multimeter check the voltage. The output should read 12 v or more. You can check this at the mppt/ per controller. If no voltage is apparent the panels are knackered or the wiring from them is faulty. Carry on eliminating things until you find the problem.
Phil

 

[autorouter]

Disconnect one or both wires from the panels where they go into the controller, then measure again. It's just possible that a faulty controller is shorting the panels so that the voltage reads zero. Also if it's accessible you could disconnect the panels up on the roof and measure each one separately. As already said, should be at least 12V, more like 24V.

 

[PP Bear]

My solar stopped generating output and its natural to think they’re finally finished. Mine turned out to be a simple fuse that had come loose and needed securing correctly.

Oh and welcome

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[Tombola]

probably best to change your PWM controller to an MPPT one to get the best from the panels aswell.
As others have said, unlikely the panels are kaput, trace back and keep testing for voltage., if needs be take the small cover from the back of the panel and test direct onto the connectors inside.

How much solar do you have up there, because
2 x 200 of lithium, ( i have the same amount) a decent mppt and say 400 of solar will see you well sorted in mallorca. Even 200 of solar and a b2b & just 1 x 200 of lithium if you do a bit of driving, but yes defo change over to lithium.

Im not sure who supplies over there but KS energy are gathering some decent comments here. I used polinoval, on my last van, and KS seem the same but cheaper, and with funster dicounts codes.

 

[TinaLes]

Welcome to Fun!
I would do as suggested above, check voltage direct from panels, before the regulator, check wires connection at the rear of the panels if possible, a wire may have become detached from inside the rear mounted connection box.
Change that Stecca PR 3030 30Amp regulator its a cheap PWM type, get yourself a good Victron, or Votronic MPPT type, much better performance in harvesting of sun.

As & when you upgrade to Lithium, a good quality solar controller will offer the correct charging regime for Lithium's, The Victron gear allows you to see all voltages, charge currents, and battery usage on your mobile phone via Bluetooth as well as in the van via the meters
You should also think of getting a good BMS, if you dont have one currently, with a shunt to monitor your batteries, a Victron BMV712 Smart Battery Monitor is very popular choice, it will show all you need, plus is blue toothed to your phone also.

You may also have to change your mains hookup charger also when changing to lithium, again to get the correct charge regime over a standard one, lithium's love to have high charge currents chucked at them, but need to switch off to avoid over charging, and not accept any charge below 5/6%C if they are not in an insulated area. Again Victron is popular choice for reliable charging and monitors the temp of the batteries.

Do you currently have a DC-DC, or also known as a B2B charger to charge our leisure batteries faster when the engine is running?, these come into their own in the winter months, with shorter days & less sun.

Depending on your daily usage, you may not need 2x200 amp lithium's, I would start with one, as many seem to do, as you can take Lithium's down to a much greater DOD (depth of discharge) than AGM's or Gels, therefore you may not need that much storage to start with, see how things go with one, add another later if needed.

Example of 2x100AMP Leisure batteries, recommended Max DOD for longevity,
AGM's Max recommended discharge 50%, so 100 amps usable
Gel's Max 80%, so 160 Amps usable
Lithiums Max 90% 180 amps usable

I hope I am not teaching a grandmother to suck eggs here, just trying to help if I can.
LES

 

[PeteMallorca]

I found the problem, Well, 2 problems. With the help of a long wire, connected to each wire, from the panels, that I removed from the controller, up on the roof I went. Checking each connection, for voltage from the panels and for continuity on the wires going to the controller. Under the first panel I found 2 connectors and as I opened one, I noticed moisture around the edge. On the inside there was a lot of white, chalky, corrosion. I checked the other connector and it was the same. After cleaning these completely, I had continuity on both cables to the controller and voltage from the panels. I have sealed them with Sikaflex 522 and I'm looking for a local supplier for new cables and connectors.


The panels were also quite dirty. We get a lot of "Red rain" here. Sahara desert sand, in the rain. I cleaned them well and they look like new now.


I'm now getting 100% state of charge, on the controller. I've not used as much as I would like to, just being a little cautious but the state of charge does drop a lot, after sun down. As soon as the sun comes up, the batteries start charging quite fast. It's now 09.30 and they are up to 70% already. I will try to attach some photos of the charge controller display.

 

[PeteMallorca]

These are the readings this morning. It's now 10.00. So the state of charge has gone up 10% in half an hour and its not a clear sky this morning.

 

[PeteMallorca]

First things first. Start with the solar panels. Using a multimeter check the voltage. The output should read 12 v or more. You can check this at the mppt/ per controller. If no voltage is apparent the panels are knackered or the wiring from them is faulty. Carry on eliminating things until you find the problem.
Phil

Thanks Phil. Elimination won the day. Please see my post below.

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[PeteMallorca]

Disconnect one or both wires from the panels where they go into the controller, then measure again. It's just possible that a faulty controller is shorting the panels so that the voltage reads zero. Also if it's accessible you could disconnect the panels up on the roof and measure each one separately. As already said, should be at least 12V, more like 24V.

Thanks Autorouter, I found the problem. Please see my post below.

 

[PeteMallorca]

Welcome to Fun!
I would do as suggested above, check voltage direct from panels, before the regulator, check wires connection at the rear of the panels if possible, a wire may have become detached from inside the rear mounted connection box.
Change that Stecca PR 3030 30Amp regulator its a cheap PWM type, get yourself a good Victron, or Votronic MPPT type, much better performance in harvesting of sun.

As & when you upgrade to Lithium, a good quality solar controller will offer the correct charging regime for Lithium's, The Victron gear allows you to see all voltages, charge currents, and battery usage on your mobile phone via Bluetooth as well as in the van via the meters
You should also think of getting a good BMS, if you dont have one currently, with a shunt to monitor your batteries, a Victron BMV712 Smart Battery Monitor is very popular choice, it will show all you need, plus is blue toothed to your phone also.

You may also have to change your mains hookup charger also when changing to lithium, again to get the correct charge regime over a standard one, lithium's love to have high charge currents chucked at them, but need to switch off to avoid over charging, and not accept any charge below 5/6%C if they are not in an insulated area. Again Victron is popular choice for reliable charging and monitors the temp of the batteries.

Do you currently have a DC-DC, or also known as a B2B charger to charge our leisure batteries faster when the engine is running?, these come into their own in the winter months, with shorter days & less sun.

Depending on your daily usage, you may not need 2x200 amp lithium's, I would start with one, as many seem to do, as you can take Lithium's down to a much greater DOD (depth of discharge) than AGM's or Gels, therefore you may not need that much storage to start with, see how things go with one, add another later if needed.

Example of 2x100AMP Leisure batteries, recommended Max DOD for longevity,
AGM's Max recommended discharge 50%, so 100 amps usable
Gel's Max 80%, so 160 Amps usable
Lithiums Max 90% 180 amps usable

I hope I am not teaching a grandmother to suck eggs here, just trying to help if I can.
LES

Thanks Les,

Firstly No! You are not teaching a grandmother to suck eggs. Although I have general electrics knowledge, I am new to solar.

I found the problem with the existing system but I'm very interested in what you say here.

I have done some research but I'm not sure of the correct order in which to do things. If possible, I prefer to upgrade bit by bit, if possible. Without understanding too much, my idea was, to upgrade the controller first. I was looking at the victron 100/50. Obviously thinking that this will more than cope with the existing system and allow me to upgrade to the 2 x 200AH Lithium batteries, one at a time. But.... Must I change the solar panels first? As I'm thinking thatvthey will not produce enough power to fully charge the lithium batteries.

Maybe I should go for the controllers first, then 1 x 200AH Lithium battery, them my existing panels will have enough power to charge the single battery. After, when I can find a supplier, I can change the panels. Then the last step being to add the second 200AH Lithium battery.

I could be completely wrong with this approach but as I said "I know nothing" .

What do you think?

I will have to check what I have. I believe that I have the "mains hookup charger" but I'm not sure about the "DC-DC, or also known as a B2B charger" although I think that I must have because I used to start the van and run it for an hour or more and it would give the batteries a bit more life. Where would this be located? And what would it look like?

I believe that I have a BMS and I know that I have a shunt. There is a small round victron monitor also. I'll add some photos.

Thanks again and any suggestions are welcome.

Thanks

Peter.

 

[autorouter]

The small round Victron monitor is a BMV 600S, a very nice monitor that will tell you the state of charge of the batteries without having to read the voltage and guess, which is what most people have to do. You need to tell it the size of the battery bank (in amp-hours, Ah). It will automatically sense when the batteries are fully charged, and set itself to 100%. From that point it will count the amps in and out of the battery and keep track of its state of charge.

The monitor is in two parts, the other part is the shunt on the battery negative terminal.

If you get Lithium batteries, (Lithium Iron Phosphate, LiFePO4) are the type to get for a MH. You have to change a couple of settings on the monitor, and it can get a bit technical. But you only have to do it once.

There's a manual on the Victron website

https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Manual-BMV-600S-600HS-602S-EN-NL-FR-DE-ES-SE-IT-PT.pdf

 

[PeteMallorca]

The small round Victron monitor is a BMV 600S, a very nice monitor that will tell you the state of charge of the batteries without having to read the voltage and guess, which is what most people have to do. You need to tell it the size of the battery bank (in amp-hours, Ah). It will automatically sense when the batteries are fully charged, and set itself to 100%. From that point it will count the amps in and out of the battery and keep track of its state of charge.

The monitor is in two parts, the other part is the shunt on the battery negative terminal.

If you get Lithium batteries, (Lithium Iron Phosphate, LiFePO4) are the type to get for a MH. You have to change a couple of settings on the monitor, and it can get a bit technical. But you only have to do it once.

There's a manual on the Victron website

https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Manual-BMV-600S-600HS-602S-EN-NL-FR-DE-ES-SE-IT-PT.pdf

Thanks, I'll have a read.

 

[autorouter]

I was looking at the victron 100/50. Obviously thinking that this will more than cope with the existing system and allow me to upgrade to the 2 x 200AH Lithium batteries, one at a time. But.... Must I change the solar panels first? As I'm thinking thatvthey will not produce enough power to fully charge the lithium batteries.

Lead-acid based batteries like your Gels need to be fully charged to 100% every week or two to avoid deterioration by sulfation in the long term. Lithium batteries just don't have that problem, and can be left at 50% charge for months with no deterioration. So not being able to fully charge the lithium batteries is not really a problem. Ideally they are best kept between 10% and 90%.

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