simple wiring diagram advice.

[haganap]

I want two battery banks.... not batteries but banks.

One with 2 Gel 320 amps worth of Victron's
One with 2 110 amp Banners.


I have one inverter that I need to power occassionally.
I have a B2B charger
I have the normal charging system.

can anyone offer a diagram on the best way to do this which is relatively simple.

Im thinking B2B to one bank backed by some solar which will power the inverter, and normal system to the other bank.

thoughts please.

 

[TheBig1]

you will need two chargers for a start Paul.

leave your gel bank as it is, and wire the banners completely separate. It will really depend on usage of each bank to make proper suggestions

if the gels are kept charged by solar and the alternator, then rewire the b2b to the banners for the inverter.

 

[hilldweller]

Simple ?

Two conflicting battery systems !

But to give a decent answer you need to say what you want to achieve with this setup.

 

[Lenny HB]

Simple but effective would be to put changeover switches in each charging line, one for the mains charger, one for the B2B and one for the solar. Then you could configure the charging to suit your needs at the time.

 

[tonyidle]

Simple but effective would be to put changeover switches in each charging line, one for the mains charger, one for the B2B and one for the solar. Then you could configure the charging to suit your needs at the time.

Agree with @Lenny HB. Even if you figure out the 'best' way it will change over time based on your usage patterns and, possibly, the need to renew one bank of batteries before the other.

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[dabhand]

You might as well buy a generator Paul

 

[haganap]

you will need two chargers for a start Paul.

leave your gel bank as it is, and wire the banners completely separate. It will really depend on usage of each bank to make proper suggestions

if the gels are kept charged by solar and the alternator, then rewire the b2b to the banners for the inverter.

That's the thing I listed above Big one. I have 2 charging systems, 1 van based and then my B2B, I want to switch between power source from one to the other. on the main charger.

Simple ?

Two conflicting battery systems !

But to give a decent answer you need to say what you want to achieve with this setup.

see above. Although I am thinking of using the banner system to simply power my inverter which would then power my Microwave and Hair dryer temporary so I don't kill the Victrons. But I would like the option to switch to the banners in an emergency if the Victrons run out and I haven't used all the juice in the banners. I Understand they are two conflicting battery systems hence why I have two different charging systems. If it wasn't snowing in Macc I would insist you come over and fit it all

Simple but effective would be to put changeover switches in each charging line, one for the mains charger, one for the B2B and one for the solar. Then you could configure the charging to suit your needs at the time.

This is similar to what I am thinking, but I need the diagram and pointing to the parts to satisfy my self I completely understand it.
What I was thinking was to dump the B2B charge in to the banners alone, and a simple switch to switch between the two but my head cannot work it out.

 

[Minxy]

Maybe I'm just being thick here, but wouldn't it be easier just to fit a 3rd gel?

 

[haganap]

There's many ways i could go..

But i have two nearly new banners
2 new gel batteries.

The two are not compatible on the same charging system..

I could simply sell one set but why bother

 

[eddie]

Nothing is impossible just bigger invoices, but, just because something can be done, doesn't mean that it is a good idea

The potential to get into a pickle is high

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[Minxy]

There's many ways i could go..

But i have two nearly new banners
2 new gel batteries.

The two are not compatible on the same charging system..

I could simply sell one set but why bother

... because it would be easier to have just one type of battery system rather than mess about with 2 ... selling your Banners should pay for another gel then it's just a case of wiring it in to the existing ones.

 

[haganap]

Nothing is impossible just bigger invoices, but, just because something can be done, doesn't mean that it is a good idea

The potential to get into a pickle is high

So defeatist..
Amazed you can afford the fuel for that yank tank with that business accument..

You should be dragging me down there emptying my pockets of well earned cash.

 

[haganap]

... because it would be easier to have just one type of battery system rather than mess about with 2 ... selling your Banners should pay for another gel then it's just a case of wiring it in to the existing ones.

Yes I'm well aware of that but that's not what i want to achieve...

My main thinking is using them stupid womens items such as hair dryers and straighten things and the microwaves via my inverter on a when it's gone its gone scenario

 

[andy63]

Im not sure gel batteries are the best choice for high discharge rates... ie your inverter.. just another consideration when deciding on what to settle with..
Andy.

 

[Minxy]

Yes I'm well aware of that but that's not what i want to achieve...

My main thinking is using them stupid womens items such as hair dryers and straighten things and the microwaves via my inverter on a when it's gone its gone scenario

As I don't use those items I take it I'm not one of the stupid women?

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[sonny]

Where's the simple wiring diagram?

 

[haganap]

Where's the simple wiring diagram?

I'm waiting for it

 

[mitzimad]

simple enough?

 

[mitzimad]

im no electrician paul but i see electrics in terms of plumbing with two heat sources could both battery banks be connected to a central point via non return valves (diode?)and all power taken from that point with each bank having its own charging supply im not sure if this is practical due to the current needed probably means diodes the size of a house. Any electricians want to comment as i would like to know why not

 

[hilldweller]

But i have two nearly new banners
2 new gel batteries.

I've fallen into that trap in the past, "got this, got to use it".

For the sake of two second hand batteries you are creating a monster.

Sell the batteries, buy a matching one - problems solved.

Or sell all the batteries and Go Lithium. God and a few super mortals use Lithium.

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[hilldweller]

Any electricians want to comment as i would like to know why not

One big problem, any diode loses about 0.7V and you don't want this ( can be worked around but always some loss ).

Bigger problem, like hot/cold mixer taps, the two batteries must not mix, one needs a hot feet the other needs a cold feed.

 

[tonyidle]

im no electrician paul but i see electrics in terms of plumbing with two heat sources could both battery banks be connected to a central point via non return valves (diode?)and all power taken from that point with each bank having its own charging supply im not sure if this is practical due to the current needed probably means diodes the size of a house. Any electricians want to comment as i would like to know why not

Yes that's perfectly possible. And not a bad solution @haganap.

 

[tonyidle]

One big problem, any diode loses about 0.7V and you don't want this ( can be worked around but always some loss ).

Bigger problem, like hot/cold mixer taps, the two batteries must not mix, one needs a hot feet the other needs a cold feed.

Not if Schottky diodes are used. They have a fairly constant drop of 0.2v or so - irrelevant on the output side.

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[Robert Clark]

Yes I'm well aware of that but that's not what i want to achieve...

My main thinking is using them stupid womens items such as hair dryers and straighten things and the microwaves via my inverter on a when it's gone its gone scenario

We have two banks of hab batteries for this very reason
The first bank is the factory fitted one, its charged by the split charger when driving and the factory fitted charger.

Our second battery bank comprises on two Lithium batteries, charged by a B2B charger, 600w of solar and an inverter/charger. The only thing connected to this bank is the inverter

I’ve linked the two banks with a Sterling 3A battery master which goes some way to share the solar from the Lithium batteries.

The reason for this set up is to prevent the inverter discharging the main battery bank.

 

[eddie]

im no electrician paul but i see electrics in terms of plumbing with two heat sources could both battery banks be connected to a central point via non return valves (diode?)and all power taken from that point with each bank having its own charging supply im not sure if this is practical due to the current needed probably means diodes the size of a house. Any electricians want to comment as i would like to know why not

On my last boat I had a bank of Auxiliary batteries (leisure) two batteries for the Starboard engine and two for the Port engine, two for the generator, two for the stern thruster and two for the bow thruster.

It was a new boat so the system was designed like that at the start, not "evolved" The Starboard and Port engines charged their respective battery banks, as did the generator. The Auxiliary batteries were charged by a Victron 100 amp battery charger. There were two small maintenance chargers for the Forward and Bowthruster batteries, and again, these were charged also from the Port and Starboard engines. In an emergency all sorts of battery options could be brought to bear to start the engines, all big heavy duty switches allowing various options, big ugly clunky manual switches, on a big panel, in a cupboard down in the engine room. So It can be done, altering an existing system is always harder, altering an existing system two have two separate battery banks from single source charging system, can leave you with a pig in a poke. Also the cost of the marine installation was eye watering

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[Neckender]

I have similar Paul 2 Varta LFD90s AGM 21 months old and with all the scare stories about them just dying,
I’ve fitted 2 Sonshien Gel batteries, I’ve done this because I have a compressor fridge fitted and I use a CPAP machine with humidifier and I can’t risk the batteries dying on me.
So what I’m thinking of is putting 1 AGM battery in the rear for my CPAP machine and when I get back home just recharge it with my stand alone battery charger. If on hook up it doesn’t matter.

My 21 month AGMs have now stood in a cold garage for nearly 8 weeks now and are still reading 12.75 on each battery.

John.

 

[Lenny HB]

Bigger problem, like hot/cold mixer taps, the two batteries must not mix, one needs a hot feet the other needs a cold feed.

Good point Brian.

What I've suggested about switching the charging sources is not a good idea as each time you switched banks you would have to change the setting on each charger to suit the type of batteries.

You could still switch them but I would install a seperate B2B & solar regulator & mains charger for each bank.
Other alternative is use the same type of batteries in each bank, then switching would be fine.

 

[hilldweller]

So what I’m thinking of is putting 1 AGM battery in the rear for my CPAP machine and when I get back home just recharge
John.

You could also keep it topped up on the road from a charger plugged into an inverter on the other two. Not too efficient mind but no conflict of charging regime.

 

[Lisa]

ooops just noticed that I have replied on Lisa's name instead of mine
terry

 

[Terry]

Hi Paul as you know I am not the best on leccy so here's what I did and what my thoughts areYou don't say how far apart your banks are so simply connecting both banks via a switch and cables may not be an option --If it is then simply using both banks while using inverter is a simple option turning the switch off when not using My onboard charger did one bank ie 2 batts and I simply used solar to charge the other two along with a relay to charge from engine ---no idea if the B2B can handle 4 batts but do know your onboard won't manage all four for long before burning out unless you have beefed the onboard charger up to around a 60 amp one -- If the batts ever got low (they did not) it was a simple switch to transfer power from one bank to the other for a few mins keeping all 4 batts happy --on this van -
At the moment I have 2 victrons that are used with van charging system and solar stright to the batts not via the van system ie Sargent --We use a 3500/7000 peak, pure sin wave inverter for mikey wave for 2 x 10 mins cooking and Lisa uses Hair dryer and tongs without ever depleting batts to alarming levels --only 200w solar and it's keeping everything ok for a week or so away in the winter but maily 4 / 5 days away ---
I have a vw camper van (that I have converted) that when on charge (plugged into mains) opens up the relay - 30 amp smart charger- so charges both engine batt and Lbatt that both get charged from engine Simple but works
Chances are Paul you will have sold the van before you have to worry over anything not keeping up with your use
ooops just noticed that I have replied on Lisa's name instead of mine
terry

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