Road tax on new vans

[Flook]

Hi all, I hear if you buy a new Moho, as from Sept 1st the road tax will be for the first year around the 2k+ mark, second an subsequent years over the £400 mark. Is this right?

I cannot see any view points on the first three pages of MHF. I am glad I am happy with my one, and have not decided to upgrade.

Flook

 

[pappajohn]

There's been one or two long threads about it but you need to go back more than 3 pages.
Search road tax or luxury tax, that may bring up some results

 

[Flook]

Thanx

 

[pappajohn]

Looks like £2150 in year 1 then £465pa for years 2 to 6 then £145pa thereafter for vehicles with a list price of £40.000 or more.
Of course, by year 7 it will have gone up from £145 anyway.

 

[mikebeaches]

But has anybody on Fun actually purchased a van and paid the new higher taxation?

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[pappajohn]

It only applies to the very latest engines so until old stock is exhausted, which won't be long, it shouldn't apply unless the registering dealer has entered a Co2 figure on the forms then I think it does.

 

[Stealaway]

But has anybody on Fun actually purchased a van and paid the new higher taxation?

It seems it's not until January 2020 and only on the latest engines. My new van will be registered as late as possible in December 2019 to avoid the new taxes.

 

[Minxy]

It seems it's not until January 2020 and only on the latest engines. My new van will be registered as late as possible in December 2019 to avoid the new taxes.

My understanding is that the new VED came into force on 1st September 2019 for 6d/2 engines, as well as the luxury tax for vehicles over £40,000 list price so you might want to double check that you will NOT be hit with the new tax if you are getting the latest engine.

 

[Minxy]

Hi all, I hear if you buy a new Moho, as from Sept 1st the road tax will be for the first year around the 2k+ mark, second an subsequent years over the £400 mark. Is this right?

I cannot see any view points on the first three pages of MHF. I am glad I am happy with my one, and have not decided to upgrade.

Flook

motorhome tax response

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/268246 apologies if this has been posted

www.motorhomefun.co.uk

 

[Stealaway]

My understanding is that the new VED came into force on 1st September 2019 for 6d engines, as well as the luxury tax for vehicles over £40,000 list price so you might want to double check that you will NOT be hit with the new tax if you are getting the latest engine.

I have a deal for the 'On the road price' so I'm assuming if there is any 2 grand + tax to pay its down to them? I'm also guessing it's the older engine pre 6d so not subject to the tax.

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[gus-lopez]

My understanding is that the new VED came into force on 1st September 2019 for 6d/2 engines, as well as the luxury tax for vehicles over £40,000 list price so you might want to double check that you will NOT be hit with the new tax if you are getting the latest engine.

Yes it does but there own legislation states that it should not be applied before April 2020

 

[Stealaway]

Yes it does but there own legislation states that it should not be applied before April 2020

That could be good news gus-lopez --- I might be able to register my new van as a 2020 model - I'll ask them tomorrow.

 

[Minxy]

Yes it does but there own legislation states that it should not be applied before April 2020

Where's that then? I've read loads about it and can't find anything saying its effective from that date for motorhomes although I think it is for some company cars.

Company car tax change prompts surge of interest in EVs

Arrival of new models to further boost demand, but concerns are raised over lack of availability.

www.fleetnews.co.uk

 

[Minxy]

I have a deal for the 'On the road price' so I'm assuming if there is any 2 grand + tax to pay its down to them? I'm also guessing it's the older engine pre 6d so not subject to the tax.

Even if that was true and they are picking up the extra cost for a 6d/2 engined MH's first year road tax, you'd still end up paying the luxury tax of £320 for years 2 to 6 ...

Better to check exactly what engine you are getting ...

Vehicle tax rates

Tables showing the rates for vehicle tax for different types of vehicle.

www.gov.uk

 

[Deneb]

Where's that then? I've read loads about it and can't find anything saying its effective from that date for motorhomes although I think it is for some company cars.

Company car tax change prompts surge of interest in EVs

Arrival of new models to further boost demand, but concerns are raised over lack of availability.

www.fleetnews.co.uk

An HM Treasury document relating to WLTP indicates that new WLTP emissions figures should not be used for taxation purposes until at least April 2020, by which time the new annual tax rates will have been introduced and the band's realigned for WLTP figures which differ from those currently in use.

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[Simon Select]

It only applies to the very latest engines so until old stock is exhausted, which won't be long, it shouldn't apply unless the registering dealer has entered a Co2 figure on the forms then I think it does.

Exactly right

 

[Simon Select]

It seems it's not until January 2020 and only on the latest engines. My new van will be registered as late as possible in December 2019 to avoid the new taxes.

It depends on whether you have the current engine.
If its a 6.2/D engine then you will be paying the new tax.

 

[Minxy]

An HM Treasury document relating to WLTP indicates that new WLTP emissions figures should not be used for taxation purposes until at least April 2020, by which time the new annual tax rates will have been introduced and the band's realigned for WLTP figures which differ from those currently in use.

Can you give a link to that document please as the taxation website clearly shows the new rates with no reference to them being only applicable from April 2020 and it doesn't give rates for the interim period from now to then either.

Vehicle tax rates

Tables showing the rates for vehicle tax for different types of vehicle.

www.gov.uk

I wonder if what you are referring to is the 'upping' of the emissions for cars etc already registered before 1 September 2019 and which once realigned may go into a higher taxation band and therefore nothing to do with any new vehicles registered from 1 September 2019?

 

[Stealaway]

It depends on whether you have the current engine.
If its a 6.2/D engine then you will be paying the new tax.

It appears that because it's a motor home built earlier this year on an old stock chassis, it's not likely to be the latest 6.2d engine.

 

[tjay]

Was at Lincoln show and was looking at new moho's to upgrade ! but ended up with low mileage one year old one at £15000 below new price ! and it has
various extras fitted !
Collect it 3rd October !!
No extra road tax for us ! sorted !!

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[Deneb]

Can you give a link to that document please as the taxation website clearly shows the new rates with no reference to them being only applicable from April 2020 and it doesn't give rates for the interim period from now to then either.

Vehicle tax rates

Tables showing the rates for vehicle tax for different types of vehicle.

www.gov.uk

I wonder if what you are referring to is the 'upping' of the emissions for cars etc already registered before 1 September 2019 and which once realigned may go into a higher taxation band and therefore nothing to do with any new vehicles registered from 1 September 2019?

Not at the moment because the copy is on my home PC and I'm in the middle of France.

I have mentioned it previously in at least one of the WLTP tax change threads on here.

It is the HM Treasury response to the industry consultation on the introduction of WLTP.

The current Petrol Car and Diesel Car tax bands in the tables you have linked to are based on the CO2 figures derived from the method of measurement that existed as of April 2019 - pre WLTP.

I know that there have not been CO2 figures available for most motorhomes up to now, but for other vehicles which are and have been taxed on relevant emissions since April 2017, the new WLTP figures are expected to be higher than those currently used by a margin of up to 25% due to the new methods of testing.

What HM Treasury are indicating, is that it would be unfair to apply the new figures to the current tax tables because it could mean that taken like for like, newly registered existing vehicle models would suddenly become liable to substantially increased tax rates on 1st September simply because the methodology used to measure their CO2 emissions has changed.

They therefore stated that the new WLTP figures should not be used until the tax tables have been realigned (or new bands introduced for Euro 6D vehicles) which normally happens through legislation each April following the previous HMG Budget.

I would expect that from April 2020, the new tax tables will include separate Petrol Car and Diesel Car tables for new Euro 6D vehicles, aligned in such a way that, as an example and using figures plucked out of thin air, a none Euro6D Ducato first registered after 1st April 2017 with a CO2 figure of 180g/km will pay a broadly similar rate of duty to a Euro 6D Ducato first registered after 1st September 2019 and being in all other respects an identical model, but now with a CO2 figure of 225g/km as derived from WLTP testing.

They are basically indicating that use of the new higher figures should wait for the introduction of new tax tables aligned to WLTP so that owners of new Euro 6D vehicles should not be financially penalised by the CO2 figure applicable to their vehicles having risen substantially purely due to the change in the way it has been calculated.

 

[Blackadder]

There was an article about this in the Sept issue of a well-known motorhome magazine (which was actually distributed in August of course). This stated that the tax was payable on any new motorhome registered after Sept 1st which is powered by a Euro 6d/2 engine. The lack of a stated year seems to imply they mean 1/9/2019. Motorhomes powered by older engines are not affected.
They state that the new first year VED is £2135 and the following 5 years it will be £465. That means an additional £4460 in tax over the 5 years.
What they don't explain is what happens if you buy and register a panel van with the latest engine (VED = £265) and then, at some later date, convert it to a motorhome. Do you have to re-register?

 

[Minxy]

Not at the moment because the copy is on my home PC and I'm in the middle of France.

I have mentioned it previously in at least one of the WLTP tax change threads on here.

It is the HM Treasury response to the industry consultation on the introduction of WLTP.

The current Petrol Car and Diesel Car tax bands in the tables you have linked to are based on the CO2 figures derived from the method of measurement that existed as of April 2019 - pre WLTP.

I know that there have not been CO2 figures available for most motorhomes up to now, but for other vehicles which are and have been taxed on relevant emissions since April 2017, the new WLTP figures are expected to be higher than those currently used by a margin of up to 25% due to the new methods of testing.

What HM Treasury are indicating, is that it would be unfair to apply the new figures to the current tax tables because it could mean that taken like for like, newly registered existing vehicle models would suddenly become liable to substantially increased tax rates on 1st September simply because the methodology used to measure their CO2 emissions has changed.

They therefore stated that the new WLTP figures should not be used until the tax tables have been realigned (or new bands introduced for Euro 6D vehicles) which normally happens through legislation each April following the previous HMG Budget.

I would expect that from April 2020, the new tax tables will include separate Petrol Car and Diesel Car tables for new Euro 6D vehicles, aligned in such a way that, as an example and using figures plucked out of thin air, a none Euro6D Ducato first registered after 1st April 2017 with a CO2 figure of 180g/km will pay a broadly similar rate of duty to a Euro 6D Ducato first registered after 1st September 2019 and being in all other respects an identical model, but now with a CO2 figure of 225g/km as derived from WLTP testing.

They are basically indicating that use of the new higher figures should wait for the introduction of new tax tables aligned to WLTP so that owners of new Euro 6D vehicles should not be financially penalised by the CO2 figure applicable to their vehicles having risen substantially purely due to the change in the way it has been calculated.

The vehicle tax website is saying what the rates are now, not from April 2020 so the document you are referring to with wording such as "indicating, should, would and could" isn't the same as what is being said/published by everyone else, namely the new costs apply to new MHs registered from 1st September 2019 if they have the M1SP classification (ie 6d/2 engine etc). So I stand by my understanding of the new tax regime unless there is categorical proof that it is NOT correct, if it was there would be a lot of happy people about but unfortunately the DVLA etc don't 'do happy'!

 

[Deneb]

The vehicle tax website is saying what the rates are now, not from April 2020 so the document you are referring to with wording such as "indicating, should, would and could" isn't the same as what is being said/published by everyone else, namely the new costs apply to new MHs registered from 1st September 2019 if they have the M1SP classification (ie 6d/2 engine etc). So I stand by my understanding of the new tax regime unless there is categorical proof that it is NOT correct, if it was there would be a lot of happy people about but unfortunately the DVLA etc don't 'do happy'!

Can you link to the relevant tax tables on the gov.uk or DVLA website, because the one you linked to previously only shows tables for vehicles first registered after April 2017, with rates set as of April 2019 and applicable to pre WLTP CO2 bands?

 

[Minxy]

Can you link to the relevant tax tables on the gov.uk or DVLA website, because the one you linked to previously only shows tables for vehicles first registered after April 2017, with rates set as of April 2019 and applicable to pre WLTP CO2 bands?

I don't quite understand what the issue is ... regardless of which emissions 'rules' are being applied (RDE2 or WLTP), the website clearly states it is for ALL vehicles first registered after April 2017, ergo anything registered now would pay as per the table.

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[big map]

But has anybody on Fun actually purchased a van and paid the new higher taxation?

My Dad bought a new van post 01/09/2019 and didn’t have to pay the higher rate.

 

[Stroppy Bird]

My Dad bought a new van post 01/09/2019 and didn’t have to pay the higher rate.

If it was a stock van it's likely it's not a euro 6d engine and so not liable to the higher rate.

 

[Pausim]

My Dad bought a new van post 01/09/2019 and didn’t have to pay the higher rate.

Probably a 6B or 6C engine, I suspect the 6D engines will appear on the 2020 models. There must be a good many of the earlier engines still to be registered under the derogation.

 

[Deneb]

I don't quite understand what the issue is ... regardless of which emissions 'rules' are being applied (RDE2 or WLTP), the website clearly states it is for ALL vehicles first registered after April 2017, ergo anything registered now would pay as per the table.

Except that the tax paid on euro6D vehicles would artificially penalise owners if aligned to existing tables because the figures may be "artificially" higher having been derived under a different system to that used in creating the current tables.

Honestly, I don't know what is correct either. The HM Treasury document is surely one of the "what is being said/published by everyone else" documents that you refer to, and if you include the motorhome trade, where most of the original documents came from, well they got quite a bit wrong including categorically stating that over 3500kg vans weren't included in the new scheme, which now appears not to be the case!

But so far, I've neither seen or heard any reports of anyone having to pay tax in the emissions bands on a new MH, and we're nearly into October, so I'll reserve judgement until it all becomes clearer.

 

[Stroppy Bird]

But so far, I've neither seen or heard any reports of anyone having to pay tax in the emissions bands on a new MH, and we're nearly into October, so I'll reserve judgement until it all becomes clearer.

I suspect that's because none of them are currently on the 6d engines. Give it a while longer and I reckon we'll start to get them.

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