Portugal 90 day rules?

[DavidCh]

I'm sure these are the rules but few EU citizens follow the registration or tax change status unless they live elsewhere permanently. When we were in the EU I would stay in another country for over 3 months but never got any issues because the rules weren't enforced.

as usual in European countries its all ok until something goes wrong. Its not that the laws are not enforced, its that there is no system to enforce them. It all rapidly changes if something happens that suddenly puts you on the radar like an accident or a legal dispute.

 

[Timetraveller]

I really don't know how they check but, is it not possible that on most of the main border posts they have number-plate recognition camera's?
They do on the Queen Elizabeth bridge over the Thames.and many motorways

It's exactly that! NPRC don't show who's in the van.

 

[Northernraider]

as usual in European countries its all ok until something goes wrong. Its not that the laws are not enforced, its that there is no system to enforce them. It all rapidly changes if something happens that suddenly puts you on the radar like an accident or a legal dispute.

No other nation pays it any attention either. That's why Spain is full of German, Dutch, French and Belgian motorhomes for 6 months at a time .

Rules may be rules buy no one cared about them while we were part of eu and no one still part of eu cares about them now either.

There's too many rules usually made to benefit those who made them and no one else I only follow the ones I really have to

 

[nicholsong]

as usual in European countries its all ok until something goes wrong. Its not that the laws are not enforced, its that there is no system to enforce them. It all rapidly changes if something happens that suddenly puts you on the radar like an accident or a legal dispute.

Even if put on the radar a MHomer can state that they only entered the country 4 weeks ago and leave it to the authorities to disprove it.

 

[franknjan]

Even if put on the radar a MHomer can state that they only entered the country 4 weeks ago and leave it to the authorities to disprove it.

But your passport was registered when you left the UK. You can roam through as many EU countries as you like unchallenged for 90days. Your passport will be cross checked when you return to the UK.

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[BreweryDave]

Nobody ever got in trouble for breaking the rules, only for getting caught………..

 

[nicholsong]

But your passport was registered when you left the UK. You can roam through as many EU countries as you like unchallenged for 90days. Your passport will be cross checked when you return to the UK.

If you look back DavidCh, Timetraveller, PG and I were talking about EU Citizens and Residents travelling to other EU countries, not people from outside EU.

Even on this forum there are quite a lot of us if you keep your eye on the flags in posters Avatars.

 

[Jim]

Nobody ever got in trouble for breaking the rules, only for getting caught

You still remember the Met Motto then Dave

 

[EuroTrotters]

But your passport was registered when you left the UK. You can roam through as many EU countries as you like unchallenged for 90days. Your passport will be cross checked when you return to the UK.

but as I understand it nicholsong was referring to EU citizens and residents of EU Schengen countries who do not even need a passport.

 

[Garry - June]

Another point to be aware of, i see a lot of folk saying "How would they be able to check" on where you may or may not have been in EU land... the simple fact is they don't have to... the onus is on the individual to prove where they have been and for how long it is not up to the Police to prove otherwise. If you cannot prove to them where you have been they will always assume the worse...

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[SwissBob]

That is correct, we are Portuguese residents with the Biometric ID card which means we can live in portugal all the year around but still only gives us 90 days in 180 for visiting other EU countries. Of course, since the card means we don't get a schengun stamp and there are no borders it would be very hard to prove.

Just for clarity for us WA brits living in the EU it is 90 days in any 180 in another EU country - not in the Schengen region as for other UK citizens. This is very different as you can legally spend 90 days in one EU country then 90 days in another EU country etc - as long as your residency is not effected by the length of the absence from your country of residence.

 

[nicholsong]

Another point to be aware of, i see a lot of folk saying "How would they be able to check" on where you may or may not have been in EU land... the simple fact is they don't have to... the onus is on the individual to prove where they have been and for how long it is not up to the Police to prove otherwise. If you cannot prove to them where you have been they will always assume the worse...

I have seen that stated before, but can you please state any law in any country which transfers the 'burden of proof' from the legal authorities to the individual?

 

[Timetraveller]

Another point to be aware of, i see a lot of folk saying "How would they be able to check" on where you may or may not have been in EU land... the simple fact is they don't have to... the onus is on the individual to prove where they have been and for how long it is not up to the Police to prove otherwise. If you cannot prove to them where you have been they will always assume the worse...

I think you're mistaken. It would be up to Police/Agency to prove you're in the wrong, before any action could be taken against you.

Agency

 

[TonyEmm]

I have seen that stated before, but can you please state any law in any country which transfers the 'burden of proof' from the legal authorities to the individual?

It’ll be on FB somewhere…

 

[EuroTrotters]

How long did it take the Police to catch the wanted criminal who only left the house wearing a crash helmet on his motorbike ? Anyone know that story \?

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[DavidCh]

I have seen that stated before, but can you please state any law in any country which transfers the 'burden of proof' from the legal authorities to the individual?

It is important to remember that in the U.K. we have a legal system which is adversarial, where a prosecution and a defence argue the case and this means the prosecution need to prove their case. In a lot of Europe it is investigitive, where the state make a decision based on the evidence presented to them after an investigation. As a result a person accused will need to prove their case to the people investigating

 

[nicholsong]

It is important to remember that in the U.K. we have a legal system which is adversarial, where a prosecution and a defence argue the case and this means the prosecution need to prove their case. In a lot of Europe it is investigitive, where the state make a decision based on the evidence presented to them after an investigation. As a result a person accused will need to prove their case to the people investigating

So a person makes a statement that they entered the country 4 weeks ago. At that point that is the only evidence and the State would have to produce evidence to refute it. So does that come down to the same as putting the burden of proof on the authority having to prove its case?

To take it to 'reductio ad absurdum' the Police could accuse every person in the land of every crime and every person would have to prove their innocence.

In practice the investigating magistrate/judge would want to see initial evidence that a crime/breach had been committed before opening an investigation. I suggest that just stopping somebody in the street, or even just after an accident, and questioning/accusing them of overstaying 90 days is not 'evidence' and can be refuted by denial. At which point 'burden of proof' reverts to the authorities.

I am only qualified in the Law of England and Wales, so I could be corrected by a Napoleonic-qualified lawyer, or in the case of the Netherlands one qualified in Roman-based Law.

 

[minesapint]

There was. Brittany Ferries were touting the idea as they needed a port with LNG refuelling facilities for their fleet of Chinese built disasters.

Deffo Chinese built disasters. Horrible ships with little public spaces, No cinema and No entertainment.
And very noisy doors to the dog walking decks, which will keep you awake even two decks up.

 

[Garry - June]

I have seen that stated before, but can you please state any law in any country which transfers the 'burden of proof' from the legal authorities to the individual?

I think you are all getting the wrong end of the stick here... if you get pulled by the authorities and they discover you are any number of days over your 90 permitted they will most probably issue a fine and simply say you have overstayed ... its no good saying I have been in such and such country if you have no proof to back that up, that also includes a country you may have residencia for .. the onus is on you to prove where you have been.. If you turn around and say to them "prove it" I assure you, you won't get very far.

 

[EuroTrotters]

Deffo Chinese built disasters. Horrible ships with little public spaces, No cinema and No entertainment.
And very noisy doors to the dog walking decks, which will keep you awake even two decks up.

From a slightly older Tourists point of view and a long time ferry user for 40 years. I think, as will many, ferry travel is not as it used to be. Its the same with the Norwegian cruise ferries with smorgasbord dining that we used to enjoy, It is a very different experience these days.

From the younger generations who just want the Ryanair of the seas, to the older, budget conscious pensioners and the Morelo Palace owners who just want A-B. Travel is very different from the past.

Personally, I loved Pride Of Bilabo (even though we didn't do the karaoke bar). Pont Aven and the good old Cap Finistere.

On the Plus side. Brittany ferries have only leased the Ro-Ro Ships from the Massive Stena Corporation. So if it doesn't work out, BF don't go bust or we end up in armageddon. BF Can come up with Plan B, C.....

Have a chat to BF Staff whilst on-board. Most have a great Comand of English Language and can tell you how much they dislike the fleet. That and they can really your feedback to their management . that of course, if they don't quit first .

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[nicholsong]

I think you are all getting the wrong end of the stick here... if you get pulled by the authorities and they discover you are any number of days over your 90 permitted they will most probably issue a fine and simply say you have overstayed ... its no good saying I have been in such and such country if you have no proof to back that up, that also includes a country you may have residencia for .. the onus is on you to prove where you have been.. If you turn around and say to them "prove it" I assure you, you won't get very far.

So how will they 'discover' and on what evidence will they base the fine? Unless they are being malicious?

Are there any reports that this has happened within EU, not at Schengen borders?

 

[gus-lopez]

When you have residency your passport does not get stamped at external borders either.

If travelling within europe as a permanent resident with an ID card a passport is not needed. It is only needed to exit /enter the Uk

But your passport was registered when you left the UK. You can roam through as many EU countries as you like unchallenged for 90days. Your passport will be cross checked when you return to the UK.

he has Polish residency

If you cannot prove to them where you have been they will always assume the worse..

& look where assumptions get you.

I think you are all getting the wrong end of the stick here... if you get pulled by the authorities and they discover you are any number of days over your 90 permitted they will most probably issue a fine and simply say you have overstayed ... its no good saying I have been in such and such country if you have no proof to back that up, that also includes a country you may have residencia for .. the onus is on you to prove where you have been.. If you turn around and say to them "prove it" I assure you, you won't get very far.

& as said how will they discover it? rest assured that as soon as they see any type identity card showing you are a permanent resident in any eu country there will to live is lost & any interest they had in you .You would have to be suspected of murder to be investigated further.

 

[Northernraider]

Another point to be aware of, i see a lot of folk saying "How would they be able to check" on where you may or may not have been in EU land... the simple fact is they don't have to... the onus is on the individual to prove where they have been and for how long it is not up to the Police to prove otherwise. If you cannot prove to them where you have been they will always assume the worse...

Innocent till proven guilty


Not the other way around.

 

[Northernraider]

I think you are all getting the wrong end of the stick here... if you get pulled by the authorities and they discover you are any number of days over your 90 permitted they will most probably issue a fine and simply say you have overstayed ... its no good saying I have been in such and such country if you have no proof to back that up, that also includes a country you may have residencia for .. the onus is on you to prove where you have been.. If you turn around and say to them "prove it" I assure you, you won't get very far.

Again this only applies to a UK resident post brexit.

As the only border check in EU is entering leaving UK.

They have more important things to worry about than folk travelling through Europe for more than 90 days , no one cared when brits did it either. Till they pissed off the French

 

[Garry - June]

Ok Ok ..do as you please..

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