Pilote Payload

[andyman]

Been looking at a Pilote G740C.
GVW 3500kg. The van as it sits in the dealer yard is 3279kg. Acording to the Pilote web site this includes 90% fuel, 1 gas bottle, 20 ltrs water but no driver.
That only leaves 221kgs for driver passenger and everything else. Even increasing the GVW to 3650kg is not enough if you want to travel with full water.

water = 130kg
Driver & passenger 175kg
Second gas bottle 20kg
Awning 40kg
Dog 20kg
Spare wheel 25kg

Total. 410kg

So no clothes, food or anything else and we are over weight. Wanted to fit a towbar but that will be another 30kg or so.
Have i got this wrong.

 

[PeteH]

No. Most 3.5t Motorhomes are basically "not fit for purpose". Having payloads which are totally inadequate.

We are long overdue for a separate category of "Motor Caravan". with a B1 licence limit of 4tonne. As most current chassis are capable of being uprated as a paper exercise. With perhaps a change of tyres. There is no argument over "safety".

 

[DuxDeluxe]

Been looking at a Pilote G740C.
GVW 3500kg. The van as it sits in the dealer yard is 3279kg. Acording to the Pilote web site this includes 90% fuel, 1 gas bottle, 20 ltrs water but no driver.
That only leaves 221kgs for driver passenger and everything else. Even increasing the GVW to 3650kg is not enough if you want to travel with full water.

water = 130kg
Driver & passenger 175kg
Second gas bottle 20kg
Awning 40kg
Dog 20kg
Spare wheel 25kg

Total. 410kg

So no clothes, food or anything else and we are over weight. Wanted to fit a towbar but that will be another 30kg or so.
Have i got this wrong.

I had a Pilote 690g. Even at 3650kg it was close to the limit so had to uprste to 3850 to have a comfortable payload

 

[Diggerdi]

This is the second post I'very seen today regarding this, the other was on the Pilote owners FB page. I cannot understand how our P650G, which is obviously smaller than a 740G, has such a good payload. It was listed as 680kg in the Pilote brochure. We have a second leisure battery, solar panel and spare wheel in the garage. We went on a weighbridge whilst on holiday last year with the two of us, fully loaded with everything we need, about half a tank of dieself and nearly full water. We still had 180kg to spare. To be fair, we travel light - no bikes, barbecue, awning or dogs. The payload was the second main reason we went for this particular motor home. Oh, and we weighed rear axle too and that was under.

 

[Blue Knight]

Been looking at a Pilote G740C.
GVW 3500kg. The van as it sits in the dealer yard is 3279kg. Acording to the Pilote web site this includes 90% fuel, 1 gas bottle, 20 ltrs water but no driver.
That only leaves 221kgs for driver passenger and everything else. Even increasing the GVW to 3650kg is not enough if you want to travel with full water.

water = 130kg
Driver & passenger 175kg
Second gas bottle 20kg
Awning 40kg
Dog 20kg
Spare wheel 25kg

Total. 410kg

So no clothes, food or anything else and we are over weight. Wanted to fit a towbar but that will be another 30kg or so.
Have i got this wrong.

Andy,

The G740C has the front drop down bed (making it a true 4-berth) so that zaps 100kg straight away.

That said, may I ask where the 3279kg figure comes from. The Galaxy 740C comes in the 3-trim levels so which one is being advertised as I can then do some figures.

Also note: A tow bar fitted to a standard Fiat Camper Chassis for this vehicle will be more like 55kg than 30kg.

We get about 700kg of usable payload with our P740GJ (@3.65T) to add fuel, passengers, kit, water etc but mine is a true 2-berth and tip-top for our own needs.

Cheers,

Andrew

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[andyman]

Andy,

The G740C has the front drop down bed (making it a true 4-berth) so that zaps 100kg straight away.

That said, may I ask where the 3279kg figure comes from. The Galaxy 740C comes in the 3-trim levels so which one is being advertised as I can then do some figures.

Also note: A tow bar fitted to a standard Fiat Camper Chassis for this vehicle will be more like 55kg than 30kg.

We get about 700kg with our P740GJ (@3.65T) to add fuel, passengers, kit, water etc but mine is a true 2-berth and tip-top for our own needs.

Cheers,

Andrew

The 3279kg is the figure quoted by Pilote.
The van is on SMC’s web site.

 

[Blue Knight]

The 3279kg is the figure quoted by Pilote.
The van is on SMC’s web site.

I've just visited the SMC page and they have two advertised @ 3.5T only; one manual and one auto.

I'm still not sure about the 3279kg figure though.

The 740C will come in three trim levels with a manufacturers quoted payload of either 455kg, 425kg or 395kg so the highest MIRO figure on the Pilote official web site is 3105kg.

SMC is selling the middle one in both cases so the quoted MIRO will be 3,075kg (before extras) and not 3,279kg.

 

[Blue Knight]

I've done some quick figures of the SMC manual 740C @ 3.5T:

Basic van: 3,075kg
Solar: 10kg.
Tv and aerial: 7kg
Hab battery: 25kg
DRLs: 2kg
GRP sides: 10kg
150BHP option: 10kg

Sum total: 3,137kg, then add:

Water: 130kg
Passengers: 175kg
2nd gas bottle 15-17kg (if 6kg bottle).
Awning: 40kg
Dog: 20kg
Spare wheel 25kg

(Total = 325kg)

Add that to the van @ SMC = 3,462kg.

Then add a 1.3% uplift to the MIRO figure (my own estimate) due to heavier materials being used and you've reached 3,500kg bang on.

You will have approx 150kg of usable payload for extras based on my workings above, should you register the Pilote at 3,650kg.

But I just wouldn't bother at 3.5T for your particular circumstances.

 

[andyman]

I've just visited the SMC page and they have two advertised @ 3.5T only; one manual and one auto.

I'm still not sure about the 3279kg figure though.

The 740C will come in three trim levels with a manufacturers quoted payload of either 455kg, 425kg or 395kg so the highest MIRO figure on the Pilote official web site is 3105kg.

SMC is selling the middle one in both cases so the quoted MIRO will be 3,075kg (before extras) and not 3,279kg.

I'm looking at the auto. With the extras Pilote claim that very vehicle is 3279kg.
Extra battery,oven,solar panel, sliding side locker, tilting head board, height adjustable bed. and God knows what else.
Are you saying they have got it wrong.

 

[Blue Knight]

I'm looking at the auto. With the extras Pilote claim that very vehicle is 3279kg.
Extra battery,oven,solar panel, sliding side locker, tilting head board, height adjustable bed. and God knows what else.
Are you saying they have got it wrong.

I've not got my paperwork at hand on all the specs but the oven and head board will add another 25kg. It soon adds up.

If you add that to my other figures then you're starting to have a fat van.

Personally speaking (and as I said to a guy in SMC the other day who was looking at the 740C's), I deemed the 740C to be unusable unless you changed the tyres to 225's and added semi-air to the rear suspension to take the weight to 3,850kg.

My own Pilote P740GJ has a way better payload than the Galaxy variant but this becomes a problem when you want a long van (7.5m at 3,500kg).

Just not worth it IMO

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[Blue Knight]

.........not to mention the fulcrum effect once you load stuff in the boot.

The tow bar will just kill it completely.

 

[andyman]

I've not got my paperwork at hand on all the specs but the oven and head board will add another 25kg. It soon adds up.

If you add that to my other figures then you're starting to have a fat van.

Personally speaking (and as I said to a guy in SMC the other day who was looking at the 740C's), I deemed the 740C to be unusable unless you changed the tyres to 225's and added semi-air to the rear suspension to take the weight to 3,850kg.

My own Pilote P740GJ has a way better payload than the Galaxy variant but this becomes a problem when you want a long van (7.5m at 3,500kg).

Just not worth it IMO

It's a shame the A class eats into the payload.
But I don't think I could go back to a coach built.

 

[Blue Knight]

It's a shame the A class eats into the payload.
But I don't think I could go back to a coach built.

Yep, agreed Andy. The brochures can also be confusing and when the likes of tje MIRO excludes the driver then that really catches people out.

The 740C was mentioned the other day on the forum and I think we shoved it in the unusable class for 3650kg registered and below.

You clearly have the figures on a spreadsheet so see what can be done with a 3,850kg van.

 

[Blue Knight]

One of the really good points which I draw from this thread is that the selection of a motorhome has to be based entirely upon your own personal circumstances since there is no 'one size fits all solution' for large vans with 3.5T or 3.65T registered weights.

My own Pilote van is fantastic for the two of us and fully loaded (full water/fuel/fridge/gear + bikes, twin hab batteries, 2 x 6kg bottles, and all the extras from the Pilote brochure), we are knocking on 3,540kg with 1,920kg on the rear axle.

The OP runs about 125kg more than us (dog, wheel, awning, personal weight) so our van which is perfect (and legal) for Nicky and I would not be suitable for him.

That being said, there are still some manufacturers (Autotrail, Mobilvetta, Hobby, Rapido) that really do kick the arse out of the 3.5/3.65T-thing but at least we can now add the G740C to the list for good measure.

 

[andyman]

One of the really good points which I draw from this thread is that the selection of a motorhome has to be based entirely upon your own personal circumstances since there is no 'one size fits all solution' for large vans with 3.5T or 3.65T registered weights.

My own Pilote van is fantastic for the two of us and fully loaded (full water/fuel/fridge/gear + bikes, twin hab batteries, 2 x 6kg bottles, and all the extras from the Pilote brochure), we are knocking on 3,540kg with 1,920kg on the rear axle.

The OP runs about 125kg more than us (dog, wheel, awning, personal weight) so our van which is perfect (and legal) for Nicky and I would not be suitable for him.

That being said, there are still some manufacturers (Autotrail, Mobilvetta, Hobby, Rapido) that really do kick the arse out of the 3.5/3.65T-thing but at least we can now add the G740C to the list for good measure.

I see they quote over 500kg for the Pilote P740GJ. But that is without driver (80kg), passenger (80kg), water (130kg), second gas bottle (20kg), oven (20kg), spare wheel (20kg), towbar (30kg).
That leaves 120kg for food clothes and anything else. Add a few more options and you are at limit.
I suppose i could travel without water, and pi55 about filling when i get there but i would sooner buy something built for purpose in the first place.
Could be a Burstner or Hymer next.

Andy

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[Blue Knight]

I see they quote over 500kg for the Pilote P740GJ. But that is without driver (80kg), passenger (80kg), water (130kg), second gas bottle (20kg), oven (20kg), spare wheel (20kg), towbar (30kg).
That leaves 120kg for food clothes and anything else. Add a few more options and you are at limit.
I suppose i could travel without water, and pi55 about filling when i get there but i would sooner buy something built for purpose in the first place.
Could be a Burstner or Hymer next.

Andy

It's really good how you've come to that conclusion as there are folk out there who don't give a hoot (or don't know the first thing) about payload and its related safety issues etc.

A 3.5T registered P740GJ has a stated payload of 550kg but I still wouldn't buy one unless it was registered at 3,650kg since that usuable 700kg (more like 650kg really) gives me all the legal allowance I need to enjoy the motorhome.

There was one couple recently who had a whole load of pre-purchase questions about a 3.5T P740GJ and after concluding they would be overweight from day-1 they still went ahead and bought it. Their first question on this forum reflected just how overweight they were because they simply added everything possible - enough said there.

I do hope you enjoy your new Hymer as they come with good payloads but like the Pilote it will be the extras that soon zap the Payload.

 

[wizza]

Any motorhome over 7 m at 3500 kg is going to struggle with payload only option 4250 heavy chassis

 

[clanjones]

Yep, said this a number of times, as have other people, 7.0 plus A classes don't really work at 3.5 tonnes. I am still amazed how many dealers get away with buying in and clearly selling them.

When we brought we we quickly realised it would need to be new to get an upgraded chassis. (4.25 tonnes)

There are some hymers and cathargos that have better payload at 3.5 tonnes if 3.5 is a clear requirement.

 

[pagey]

Yep, said this a number of times, as have other people, 7.0 plus A classes don't really work at 3.5 tonnes. I am still amazed how many dealers get away with buying in and clearly selling them.

When we brought we we quickly realised it would need to be new to get an upgraded chassis. (4.25 tonnes)

There are some hymers and cathargos that have better payload at 3.5 tonnes if 3.5 is a clear requirement.

i am led to believe the dealers may be fibbing

 

[DuxDeluxe]

i am led to believe the dealers my be fibbing

The manufacturers also play the +/- 5% error that they are allowed for “manufacturing tolerance” - guess which way???

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[Emmit]

I've said this before but it worthy of getting out of the locker.

The french do not have Grandads right. They have to take a separate test if they wish to drive +3500kgs.
French manufacturers have a lasse faire attitude to it. I've been to fairs and shows in France where large A Class motorhomes have been for sale with a 3500Kgs weight on the door and no one seems to bat an eyelid.

That isn't to say of course that the Gendarmerie don't take the same attitude but I would venture to suggest that Les Anglais would be fair game.

The 'van in the OP in my considered opinion is not fit for purpose as a four berth which is what it is advertised as.

 

[andyman]

Any motorhome over 7 m at 3500 kg is going to struggle with payload only option 4250 heavy chassis

Most sensible post in this thread so far.

 

[SpeedyDux]

Travel with empty water tanks, no awning, and swap the dog for a miniature 5kg one.

You might scrape in at 3500kg.

 

[Pilote87]

The french do not have Grandads right. They have to take a separate test if they wish to drive +3500kgs.

That is only partly true. There is an addition to the normal "car" licence purely for a camping car, but only for those who held their licence before, I think, 1980 ish. @yodeli could correct me when she is next on line after the weekend. I could look through back issues of the club / federation magazines to check, but it is about my bed time.

John

 

[Jands]

Am starting M/Homing this September 3 days after I retire.
Have spent a few years working out exactly what I want.
Jumped up and down in size from 7.5 through 7 to 6.5m then back to 7.5m, want an island bed, a usable garage and that extra room, so much larger for just 1m.
Gone through manufacturers looking at everything within our budget and finally stopped at the Pilote P740C.
After reading views on here about payload and wanting to carry a 125cc bike in the garage have gone and decided on the 4.4t weight upgrade, ok lose a bit of payload on the upgraded chassis, air top suspension and wheels but means remaining payload will be less of a worry.
Still will need to be careful but wont be paranoid, be interesting when fully loaded see how close it will be.
As I will be 59 have 11 years before I need to worry about keeping my C1 and then maybe downplate it to 3.5T.
Only problem I have is waiting till 3rd September.

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[DP+JAY]

I've said this before but it worthy of getting out of the locker.

The french do not have Grandads right. They have to take a separate test if they wish to drive +3500kgs.
French manufacturers have a lasse faire attitude to it. I've been to fairs and shows in France where large A Class motorhomes have been for sale with a 3500Kgs weight on the door and no one seems to bat an eyelid.

That isn't to say of course that the Gendarmerie don't take the same attitude but I would venture to suggest that Les Anglais would be fair game.

The 'van in the OP in my considered opinion is not fit for purpose as a four berth which is what it is advertised as.

Which explains why do many French have tiny dogs, equally tiny gas bottles, plug in to electric at every opportunity and are forever faffing about with watering cans or water bottles.

 

[yodeli]

That is only partly true. There is an addition to the normal "car" licence purely for a camping car, but only for those who held their licence before, I think, 1980 ish. @yodeli could correct me when she is next on line after the weekend. I could look through back issues of the club / federation magazines to check, but it is about my bed time.

John

I wish ... Unfortunately, I had my licence in 1978 and the only engine I can also drive is a motorbike up to 125 cm3 which is not the case for the car licence nowadays, then for anything more powerful I have to take a specific test for motorbikes.
Same thing for any motorhome over 3,500kgs . I need a C1 licence. Note that it is different if you want to drive a truck, and also a bus. All the licences are different. I've asked recently to a bus driver if the bus licence was allowing me to drive a bigger motorhome and he thought yes, but wasn't sure. I'll have to check, I'd like to have the bus one, but if I had to choose because they are different , then I would spend my money on a C1 for motorhomes.

 

[Northernraider]

I've done some quick figures of the SMC manual 740C @ 3.5T:

Basic van: 3,075kg
Solar: 10kg.
Tv and aerial: 7kg
Hab battery: 25kg
DRLs: 2kg
GRP sides: 10kg
150BHP option: 10kg

Sum total: 3,137kg, then add:

Water: 130kg
Passengers: 175kg
2nd gas bottle 15-17kg (if 6kg bottle).
Awning: 40kg
Dog: 20kg
Spare wheel 25kg

(Total = 325kg)

Add that to the van @ SMC = 3,462kg.

Then add a 1.3% uplift to the MIRO figure (my own estimate) due to heavier materials being used and you've reached 3,500kg bang on.

You will have approx 150kg of usable payload for extras based on my workings above, should you register the Pilote at 3,650kg.

But I just wouldn't bother at 3.5T for your particular circumstances.

You forgot about diesel

 

[andyman]

You forgot about diesel

We also take, food, clothes, chairs, bbq, windbreak, bike rack, oh and a couple of beers. I think there are also 2 umbrellas and a few tools in the locker.
Went back to SMC yesterday to see if we could order on a heavier Chas is.
Got the worst offer by far on our Burstner.
The search continues.

 

[Emmit]

We can only hope that our Political masters (or mistresses?) unravel the wreck they made of converting our weights etc that were done when we joined the European Club.
I'm not holding my breath though.

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