Peugeot or Mercedes

[Chris63]

I'm seriously thinking of changing my van even at this time of year. Any thoughts please about two potential cabs, either a 3litre Peugeot on an Auto sleeper or a rear wheel drive 2.2 litre Merc on an IH
Thanks Chris

 

[Bobby dazzler]

Well they both have there plus points as all vehicles do. I love mercs mine is 20 years old now but they do suffer with rust if you don't keep on top of them. But the new ones might be better. And IH seem to be a quality product when I've looked at them I would be looking at the merc on the IH platform. But the peugeot are galvanised I believe and the 3 litre is probably a good engine.

 

[Podney]

All other things being equal..........which they aren’t.......Merc for me. But it’s not really just about the engine...is it?

 

[Tykatem]

I have the 2.2 litre Merc automatic and it's wunderbar!

Pete

 

[hymerman]

Merc for the rear wheel drive, if you think all else equal.
I go to many festivals (used to ) and got fed up getting stuck on fields with front wheel drive ,now rear wheel drive, no problem.
My merc van is also 20 years old.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[poppycamper]

I am with hymerman 100% on this one... Defo Merc BUT not because it's a Merc but because it is RWD
I have a Movano with Dual RWD and it is not the first time I have dragged out FWD vans at rallys and festivals.
I would not even look at a FWD moho but if you always opt for hardstandings (snow, ice and gravel excepted) then why not.

 

[Pausim]

Why are FWD vehicles more prone to bogging down and slipping than RWD?

 

[poppycamper]

Why are FWD vehicles more prone to bogging down and slipping than RWD?

IMO definitely yes HOWEVER you will get plenty of those out there who disagree.

 

[The general]

Fwd , select second gear low revs should help in soft ground BUT you only got one chance when it starts moving

 

[TerryL]

Why are FWD vehicles more prone to bogging down and slipping than RWD?

The obvious answer is that there is more weight over the driving wheels. But I suspect other things like gear ratios come into play somewhere along the way.

Personally I'm just careful where I park and always try to leave myself a clear way out in the event of unforseen bogginess. The only time I got stuck was when sudden torrential rain turned the parking area into a swamp and NOTHING was getting off it until it dried out - but then I was not trying to depart anyway, just move it onto firmer ground. Drove straight out without assistance 24 hours later.

But even then there is a technique which, unhappily, many folk choose to ignore.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Pausim]

IMO definitely yes HOWEVER you will get plenty of those out there who disagree.

Yes, I understand your view but I want to know why.

 

[Nasher]

When I was looking for a van to convert the Mercedes vans were showing signs of rust and were 50% more expensive than the (galvanised) Peugeot - I chose the Peugeot (I believe Mercedes are now galvanised)
Peugeot was also generally better spec'd

Back in the noughties I had 2 Mercedes (1 company car & 1 my own) build quality was average, servicing was appalling - I'm not sure whether they've made improvements since then

The upsides of RWD has been posted above, one downside is that the load height is higher - may be a problem for older or less able people getting in & out (or in my case it makes loading motorbikes more difficult!)

 

[Nasher]

Why are FWD vehicles more prone to bogging down and slipping than RWD?

I was always told that on front wheel drive the wheels were doing both the steering and the driving.....

 

[Pausim]

The obvious answer is that there is more weight over the driving wheels. But I suspect other things like gear ratios come into play somewhere along the way.

The extra weight over the drive wheels seems to apply to most cars but many fully laden motorhomes have more weight on the rear axle than the front. In these circumstances perhaps FWD would be just as good.

 

[Pausim]

I was always told that on front wheel drive the wheels were doing both the steering and the driving.....

I can see that steering could complicate the issue. Presumably keeping the steering straight would help overcome the problem.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[DJT]

Having owned an IH J1000 coach built on a Mercedes chassis and auto gearbox for almost 3yrs and 11,000 miles I can say we loved it!!
Quality fixtures and fittings and a great drive.
DJT

 

[poppycamper]

Yes, I understand your view but I want to know why.

Oki doki. IMV a motorhome as opposed to a van is usually well ladened. Most of that weight (especially if it has a rear garage full of stuff and a long overhang) is on the rear and indeed the pendulum effect of a long over hang can actually reduce the downward force on front wheels.
One of the main contributing factors for traction is the downward force on driving wheels (and of coarse good tyres) so if most of the weight is at the rear then it makes sense to have driving wheels at rear.
I have actually witnessed, as have others on this forum FWD moho being stuck on laybys with an incline and loose gravel surface. Very recently on a thread about NC500 someone stated they had issues of traction in their FWD moho traversing some of the hairpins.
As a 4x4 tugger I dragged many many mohos off rally fields and I can't think of any being RWD.
Of coarse as stated this is only my opinion....... Oh and don't get me started on "a FWD moho becomes a RWD moho if you reverse out" !!!!
PS. FWD is better on a car because that is usually where most of the weight is.

 

[69473]

Mercedes every time, recently purchased Hymer PVC.
Having worked in the motor trade most of my life I wouldn't dream of buying a Peugeot, Fiat or Citroen over a Mercedes. Its not just the engine and transmission but little thing like switch gear and seat comfort. New Mercedes interiors especially MBUX system with 10.25 screen is taken from car range and is superb.
Dont just look at the immediately visable, look at the underside, the quality of anti corrosion and fittings.
Having said that, for me it's about payload and how easy it is to increase if required.
Sometimes payload increase is only a paper exercise and cheap to do without modifications.

 

[BillandHelen]

Chris, I’ve owned both an Ih Tio m on the Mercedes panel van and a J500, which model are you looking at?
Bill

 

[ambulancekidd]

Mercedes for me, no contest.
I've owned two Peugeot based (Ducato) motorhomes & still have one, the build quality is shockingly poor.
Bizarre switch gear, wonky electrics, poor performance & endless niggles of the Pug just convince me that our Mercedes vehicles are better built & more car like to drive.
I've owned Sprinters & used Sprinter based ambulances, the Mercs are in a league of their own.

It surprises me how many funsters argue for the Ducato etc, which is usually based on the few thousand motorhome miles they do annually. Try doing 100k plus then tell me the Ducato is better.

Once word of caution though, our motorhomes are based on commercial vehicles & they normally perform better when used hard, so this effect can level the playing field a little.

Next time your on a longish motorway journey, take a mental note of which commercial vans you see around you?
The fleet buyers know a thing or two about value for money, reliability & residual values.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Lazyboy]

If you can get the right conversion then RWD with diff lock if possible every time. Our (motorhomers) problem is that currently Fiat have the biggest chassis supply into converters and have become complacent. Now Mercedes are making in roads along with the Iveco, Fiat have to look to their laurels especially as Mercedes and Iveco are "proper" commercial vehicle dealers unlike the Fiat/Peugeot/Citroen dealers who most of the time cannot get the vehicle into their workshops. I wonder why Fiat have just made the 9 speed "proper" auto available? In terms of durability and longevity , the Mercedes, as Ambulancekidd has said, will out perform the Fiat as indeed will the Iveco but how many of us will do 50,000 miles plus per annum. If I had a business doing high mileage the Mercedes all day long.

 

[bobnick]

Historically Mercs have been far more reliable than anything from France. You will pay proportionately more for a Merc but get most of the extra back at resale time.
We will be looking for a new (nearly) van early next year. IF we can find the configuration we want in a Merc it would be preferable to a Frog.

 

[Northernraider]

Yes, I understand your view but I want to know why.

Because fwd pulls the weight and rear wheel drive pushes it...

 

[Augusta08]

Depends which way you are going if reversing the Pug is RWD and the Merc FWD. I think the gear ratios are better chosen on the Merc.
The Augusta is a Pug, with a 3ltr IVECO engine. The traction problems I've encountered were die to ludicrous high gear in reverse, but it has a chain cam, and I've over 100,000 miles on it no problems so far. However I changed the oil every 8,000 miles from new.

 

[EuroTrotters]

I have runMercedes for years. Cars, vans and tricks. I do still run one, 2.2 Sprinter 7G-Tronic Auto.

When in runs, it drives like a dream. But as with every other Mercedes we have run, it’s forever breaking down. Mostly electronics on this one.

I have had 3 Mercedes motorhomes. A 2.7Cdi Sprintshift, 3 litre Manual and a 3 litre Auto. Every single one was plagued with problems. Not helped by poor dealer service.

The main reason for choosing Mercedes was RWD.

We now have a Fiat

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Nasher]

For those looking at PVCs the Peugeot shape and width gives a lot more space and allows for a transverse bed

 

[bigwood]

From my experience of breakdown work on the Peugeot and Fiats as part of the new vehicle contract it put me off them. The build quality was awful and the dealer back up didn’t help.
I know the majority of motorhomes are built on the seval chassis so you here of more problems but things like the gearbox problems seem to have got to the stage of no spares available.
Given the choice I would prefer the Mercedes but for now I can only afford a Mk6 Transit.

 

[CazPaul]

I have runMercedes for years. Cars, vans and tricks. I do still run one, 2.2 Sprinter 7G-Tronic Auto.

When in runs, it drives like a dream. But as with every other Mercedes we have run, it’s forever breaking down. Mostly electronics on this one.

I have had 3 Mercedes motorhomes. A 2.7Cdi Sprintshift, 3 litre Manual and a 3 litre Auto. Every single one was plagued with problems. Not helped by poor dealer service.

The main reason for choosing Mercedes was RWD.

We now have a Fiat

Yes but you have a 20 year old Fiat manual, a 20 year old Merc manual would be a good choice too and RWD.

 

[Hirsch]

Depends which way you are going if reversing the Pug is RWD and the Merc FWD. I think the gear ratios are better chosen on the Merc.
The Augusta is a Pug, with a 3ltr IVECO engine. The traction problems I've encountered were die to ludicrous high gear in reverse, but it has a chain cam, and I've over 100,000 miles on it no problems so far. However I changed the oil every 8,000 miles from new.

Has our Gleneagle got the same Iveco engine? (he asks not knowing).

 

[EuroTrotters]

Yes but you have a 20 year old Fiat manual, a 20 year old Merc manual would be a good choice too and RWD.

my battery was dying. Otherwise I might have elaborated.

TheFiat chassis feels more stable than the Mercedes of the same era. The Mercedes have a narrower track and have a tendency to wobble and sway.

Also, the FWD Fiat we have has much more traction than I would of expected. I think this is because on our version, a lot of the weight is up front. Water, gas and diesel tankS along with engine and gearbox.
I know a lot of people struggle on wet grass with newer front wheel drive. But those I have seen have standard supper tyres.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}