Motorhome Storage in Greece or Turkey or Bulgaria (1 Viewer)

[jennywren]

Hi All
We are new to Motorhome Fun and also quite new to motor homing. We have had the van for nearly two years and used it extensively, mainly in Scotland/Shetland/Orkney and Northumberland etc, but we also did a 3 month trip to Sweden last year, we are enjoying every minute, well! nearly every minute!. This year, we hope to continue with our travels, probably to Central Europe, Balkans and possibly Greece. Depending on which countries we visit (Schengen or not), we could be away for 90-120 days (August onwards). Probably, somewhere in the region of 6000 miles maximum, on the basis of max 50-60 miles per day. This seemed to work well for our Swedish trip where we covered about 5200 miles in 86 days, we like to take our time, maybe 150 miles one day, then a couple of days being static or nearly so.

As we know Northern Europe (Austria and northwards from there) pretty well, we have less interest in using the van here, preferring, instead, to spend more time in Central and Southern Europe. Ideally, therefore, this year, we are looking to drive out as far as Bulgaria/Greece/Turkey and find somewhere safe to leave the van and fly home. We could then resume our journey the year after, exploring more of Greece and Turkey, possibly early Spring and/or summer/autumn. This way we can do things leisurely and not cover the same ground twice.

Another option, we have considered is the ferry Ancona in Italy to Patras one way (not cheap!) and this would reduce time in the 'North' a bit but not as good as leaving the van out there.

So, my question is, does anyone have experience of leaving the van in Bulgaria/Greece/Western Turkey areas (or anywhere, really in the Balkans vicinity). Ideally, undercover. I realise, there could be other issues like insurance/legalities of keeping van on foreign soil beyond six months etc. I am happy to research this but also open to any/all advice. I'm sure, if we go ahead with this 'plan', we may have other questions as well.

But for now, any help very much appreciated (and needed!).

 

[mikebeaches]

Hi All
We are new to Motorhome Fun and also quite new to motor homing. We have had the van for nearly two years and used it extensively, mainly in Scotland/Shetland/Orkney and Northumberland etc, but we also did a 3 month trip to Sweden last year, we are enjoying every minute, well! nearly every minute!. This year, we hope to continue with our travels, probably to Central Europe, Balkans and possibly Greece. Depending on which countries we visit (Schengen or not), we could be away for 90-120 days (August onwards). Probably, somewhere in the region of 6000 miles maximum, on the basis of max 50-60 miles per day. This seemed to work well for our Swedish trip where we covered about 5200 miles in 86 days, we like to take our time, maybe 150 miles one day, then a couple of days being static or nearly so.

As we know Northern Europe (Austria and northwards from there) pretty well, we have less interest in using the van here, preferring, instead, to spend more time in Central and Southern Europe. Ideally, therefore, this year, we are looking to drive out as far as Bulgaria/Greece/Turkey and find somewhere safe to leave the van and fly home. We could then resume our journey the year after, exploring more of Greece and Turkey, possibly early Spring and/or summer/autumn. This way we can do things leisurely and not cover the same ground twice.

Another option, we have considered is the ferry Ancona in Italy to Patras one way (not cheap!) and this would reduce time in the 'North' a bit but not as good as leaving the van out there.

So, my question is, does anyone have experience of leaving the van in Bulgaria/Greece/Western Turkey areas (or anywhere, really in the Balkans vicinity). Ideally, undercover. I realise, there could be other issues like insurance/legalities of keeping van on foreign soil beyond six months etc. I am happy to research this but also open to any/all advice. I'm sure, if we go ahead with this 'plan', we may have other questions as well.

But for now, any help very much appreciated (and needed!).

Hi jennywren

Sorry to see there haven't been any replies so far to your request for information about leaving your van abroad. We have done it a couple of times, but I suspect it is not something routinely undertaken by many Funsters. And in our case, it wasn't in the location your are interested in.

Nonetheless if it is of any help, here briefly is our experience.

Back in 2018 we decided it would be a good idea to leave our van in Spain during the winter so we could fly backwards and forwards to and from the UK, to use it in warmer climes, rather than leave it parked up at home.

We were able to identify secure indoor parking less than 5 minutes away from Alicante Airport - Chris Parking - it is a German-owned family business.

Parking Alicante - Chrisparking, Flughafen Parkservice Airport parking Alicante

Parking Alicante am Flughafen und Service. - Deutscher Familienbetrieb bietet einen Parkservice mit Hallen- und Außenplätzen für Kurz und Langzeit Parker gegenüber dem Flughafen Alicante, für Autos und aller Arten von Fahrzeugen zu fairen Preisen. Gerne buchen wir für Sie auch einen Mietwagen...

www.chrisparking.com

A good deal was secured for 6 months storage, but we could come and go as and when we wished. Additionally, Chris' company provided a free shuttle service to the airport and on request they also plugged in the mains hook-up to keep both the van's onboard batteries conditioned. The whole arrangement worked really well - in the first season we travelled to Spain on the ferry from the UK in October and returned the following March, also by ferry. The approximate format was 2 weeks in Spain and 2 weeks at home during that period. It satisfied the 90 days in 180 Schengen requirement perfectly, even though technically not necessary, as we were still in the EU at the time.

The whole arrangement was a total success from our perspective, so we repeated it the following winter in 2019/20. But that time we used the tunnel and drove through France, instead of using the ferry across the Bay of Biscay to get there. Again, everything worked well and went according to plan ...until, unfortunately, we came unstuck when the pandemic struck. Our last scheduled flight to Spain to collect the van and drive it home was cancelled in the first lockdown. The van was stranded perfectly safe and secure in Spain, and we were at home in the UK. Eventually, we got it transported back to Blighty in June 2020, which was a tad expensive, but seemed the best thing to do at the time. It had long exceeded the 6-month time limit for a foreign-registered vehicle to remain in Spain, and the MOT had also expired.

You mentioned insurance and that is indeed a challenge. I almost lost the will to live, contacting dozens and dozens of companies, until finally I found a broker and underwriter willing to accept the risk and provide the flexible cover we required. All the other insurers I spoke to wouldn't even consider insuring for extended overseas storage, at any price.

We have some aspirations to repeat the exercise again next winter... not sure if it will happen or not?

 

[nicholsong]

Forget Turkey because the MH would be stamped into your passport and would have to be exported with you within the 90 days of your arrival, or you would have to pay import duty.

I have no information on Bulgaria.

I know Greece well from having a boat there for 30 years

Greece should legally be no problem if you can find a suitable storage place. If you were storing it in months between May and Oct I would suggest boatyards when the boats are in the water but I see that is not your plan. We drove our MH down to Greece in 2021 and parked it in an island boatyard but in Aug/Sept.

When looking for a storage place you need to consider dates and flights back for you in Cumbria to MAN or GLA/EDI because charters to Greece normally wind down mid-Oct from many airports, although Athens, and maybe Corfu continue.

Another consideration is security: for that reason I would keep well away from Athens and also Patras (Migrants hanging around trying to get to Italy).

If you plan to visit any islands you may be able to find storage there and take the ferry back to Athens.

You say 'under cover'. Unless you can get EHU, maybe relying on solar charging batteries, it might be better in the open. My experience of the boat in the open was that it suffered little in 30 years (except varnish - not a problem on MH). You might come back to a layer of Saharan dust but soon washes off.

Greece has started taxing boats more, so some boatyards may have some gaps even in winter and they usually are secure and have electric available. Also they often have some 'corners' where they cannot get the crane into to park a boat. Try giving some a ring.

Geoff

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[jennywren]

Hi jennywren

Sorry to see there haven't been any replies so far to your request for information about leaving your van abroad. We have done it a couple of times, but I suspect it is not something routinely undertaken by many Funsters. And in our case, it wasn't in the location your are interested in.

Nonetheless if it is of any help, here briefly is our experience.

Back in 2018 we decided it would be a good idea to leave our van in Spain during the winter so we could fly backwards and forwards to and from the UK, to use it in warmer climes, rather than leave it parked up at home.

We were able to identify secure indoor parking less than 5 minutes away from Alicante Airport - Chris Parking - it is a German-owned family business.

Parking Alicante - Chrisparking, Flughafen Parkservice Airport parking Alicante

Parking Alicante am Flughafen und Service. - Deutscher Familienbetrieb bietet einen Parkservice mit Hallen- und Außenplätzen für Kurz und Langzeit Parker gegenüber dem Flughafen Alicante, für Autos und aller Arten von Fahrzeugen zu fairen Preisen. Gerne buchen wir für Sie auch einen Mietwagen...

www.chrisparking.com

A good deal was secured for 6 months storage, but we could come and go as and when we wished. Additionally, Chris' company provided a free shuttle service to the airport and on request they also plugged in the mains hook-up to keep both the van's onboard batteries conditioned. The whole arrangement worked really well - in the first season we travelled to Spain on the ferry from the UK in October and returned the following March, also by ferry. The approximate format was 2 weeks in Spain and 2 weeks at home during that period. It satisfied the 90 days in 180 Schengen requirement perfectly, even though technically not necessary, as we were still in the EU at the time.

The whole arrangement was a total success from our perspective, so we repeated it the following winter in 2019/20. But that time we used the tunnel and drove through France, instead of using the ferry across the Bay of Biscay to get there. Again, everything worked well and went according to plan ...until, unfortunately, we came unstuck when the pandemic struck. Our last scheduled flight to Spain to collect the van and drive it home was cancelled in the first lockdown. The van was stranded perfectly safe and secure in Spain, and we were at home in the UK. Eventually, we got it transported back to Blighty in June 2020, which was a tad expensive, but seemed the best thing to do at the time. It had long exceeded the 6-month time limit for a foreign-registered vehicle to remain in Spain, and the MOT had also expired.

You mentioned insurance and that is indeed a challenge. I almost lost the will to live, contacting dozens and dozens of companies, until finally I found a broker and underwriter willing to accept the risk and provide the flexible cover we required. All the other insurers I spoke to wouldn't even consider insuring for extended overseas storage, at any price.

We have some aspirations to repeat the exercise again next winter... not sure if it will happen or not?

Many thanks for the info, it certainly seem to work for yourselves and Spain is also a country we would like to get to know better from the motorhome perspective in the future, especially inland. I would be interested to know the broker you use as my broker has already indicated it may be a problem, albeit they have not ruled it out.

 

[jennywren]

Forget Turkey because the MH would be stamped into your passport and would have to be exported with you within the 90 days of your arrival, or you would have to pay import duty.

I have no information on Bulgaria.

I know Greece well from having a boat there for 30 years

Greece should legally be no problem if you can find a suitable storage place. If you were storing it in months between May and Oct I would suggest boatyards when the boats are in the water but I see that is not your plan. We drove our MH down to Greece in 2021 and parked it in an island boatyard but in Aug/Sept.

When looking for a storage place you need to consider dates and flights back for you in Cumbria to MAN or GLA/EDI because charters to Greece normally wind down mid-Oct from many airports, although Athens, and maybe Corfu continue.

Another consideration is security: for that reason I would keep well away from Athens and also Patras (Migrants hanging around trying to get to Italy).

If you plan to visit any islands you may be able to find storage there and take the ferry back to Athens.

You say 'under cover'. Unless you can get EHU, maybe relying on solar charging batteries, it might be better in the open. My experience of the boat in the open was that it suffered little in 30 years (except varnish - not a problem on MH). You might come back to a layer of Saharan dust but soon washes off.

Greece has started taxing boats more, so some boatyards may have some gaps even in winter and they usually are secure and have electric available. Also they often have some 'corners' where they cannot get the crane into to park a boat. Try giving some a ring.

Geoff

Hi Geoff
Many thanks for your detailed reply, especially the restrictions regarding Turkey, this was something I had not considered. Good advice about Athens/Patras too. As it happens, Greece would be our preferred option. I had not really thought about boat yards, should have done as we also had a boat on the Cornish coast for many years, Cannot recall seeing too many vans in them over winter but there may be less demand for this in the UK. If you were aware of any Greek yards, that would be great but don't worry if not, should not be too difficult to find a few possibilities online.
Much appreciated.

 

[mikebeaches]

Many thanks for the info, it certainly seem to work for yourselves and Spain is also a country we would like to get to know better from the motorhome perspective in the future, especially inland. I would be interested to know the broker you use as my broker has already indicated it may be a problem, albeit they have not ruled it out.

Broker - Advance Insurance: https://www.advanceinsurance.co.uk/motor-homes-insurance/

Underwriter - Ageas: https://www.ageasbroker.co.uk/products/optima-motorhome/

The insurer wanted details of the storage location and security arrangements, which wasn't an issue.

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[Brains]

My sister used to drive a VW camper van from the West country to Greece every year for a decade.

Day one to London or ferry port
Day two to Koln
Day three to Kufstein (German/Austrian border)
Day four to Ancona and overnight on the ferry
Day five Patras to Athens to Mykonos.

She had three small children with her (age about 4 to 6 initially, all teens a decade later)

She also looked at the idea of leaving the van in Greece, but the main issues were:

• Insurance. Most companies would not consider it.
• MOT, (and tax) you need to bring the van back for the MOT/Tax, if you miss the date, you are liable to have serious issues as at a minimum you would book an MOT in Harwich or Dover straight off the ferry.
• Flights: Yes, it would save 4 days each way, but the cost at the time was excessive.
• Storage fees, what you gain on ferry costs you lose on storage fees.
• No vehicle likes sitting around unused for months at a time.

I Think leaving a van in storage for a couple of months is fine, but I dont think it's a good idea for entire seasons.

 

[jennywren]

Broker - Advance Insurance: https://www.advanceinsurance.co.uk/motor-homes-insurance/

Underwriter - Ageas: https://www.ageasbroker.co.uk/products/optima-motorhome/

The insurer wanted details of the storage location and security arrangements, which wasn't an issue.

View attachment 704974

Many thanks, much appreciated. Certainly looks the business.
Pete

 

[jennywren]

My sister used to drive a VW camper van from the West country to Greece every year for a decade.

Day one to London or ferry port
Day two to Koln
Day three to Kufstein (German/Austrian border)
Day four to Ancona and overnight on the ferry
Day five Patras to Athens to Mykonos.

She had three small children with her (age about 4 to 6 initially, all teens a decade later)

She also looked at the idea of leaving the van in Greece, but the main issues were:

• Insurance. Most companies would not consider it.
• MOT, (and tax) you need to bring the van back for the MOT/Tax, if you miss the date, you are liable to have serious issues as at a minimum you would book an MOT in Harwich or Dover straight off the ferry.
• Flights: Yes, it would save 4 days each way, but the cost at the time was excessive.
• Storage fees, what you gain on ferry costs you lose on storage fees.
• No vehicle likes sitting around unused for months at a time.

I Think leaving a van in storage for a couple of months is fine, but I dont think it's a good idea for entire seasons.

Many thanks for the info. We have considered similar routing as the ferry from Ancona certainly, drastically reduces the mileage to get to Greece, albeit we do have significant miles within the UK to add on (unless we return to Hull/Newcastle which lessens it somewhat). We are probably only looking at 3-4mths in storage as we would lay-up probably mid November and then return in early Spring for a further 3-4 months. My reckoning suggests we could then have two seasons in this region at a saving of approximately 4000 miles (return trip Patras to Rotterdam to Hull to home) and two ferry crossings In terms of money, somewhere in region of £2000. I accept, we need to find flights but these can be had relatively cheaply if you are willing to be flexible which we would be. Without a lay-up location in mind yet, it is difficult to estimate a cost for 3/4 months with any accuracy but I would expect it to be £100/month at tops (I could be wrong!). This would still leave quite a surplus. If you factor in the cost of the Ancona/Patras ferry, this adds a further £1200 to1500 into the equation, depending on dates/early booking discount etc. The Ancona ferry will reduce the return trip mileage to about 2500 miles but it does mean you miss out on travelling through the Balkans, one of the prime reasons we wish to undertake the trip.

Cost is one thing but the other reason we wish to leave the van out there is the potential time saving, driving across Northern Europe. We would prefer to spend this time elsewhere (Balkans/Greece/Turkey). Our ideal would be not to take the Ancona/Patras ferry as it misses out on the bits we would prefer to see, albeit, it remains an option for one way.

The other advantage of leaving the van out there, especially if on one of the Greek Islands is that it affords us the opportunity of a quick winter visit for a week or two of sun, now that is getting a bit greedy I know!

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[nicholsong]

There are several points coming out of this useful discussion.

MOT

There are two views on whether it is legal to use a UK vehicle if the UK MOT has expired.

The first view is that the vehicle has to be legal in its country of registration and that a vehicle without MOT is not legal, anywhere.

The alternative view is that UK law says it is illegal to drive a vehicle on a UK road without a valid MOT, but the UK law says nothing about driving it elsewhere. I favour this interpretation but recognise that the authorities in another country may not, although there is little evidence of drivers being asked to show MOT Certificates.

It is well rehearsed that it is legal to drive from a port to a pre-booked MOT test with an expired MOT. I have done it.

SCHENGEN 90/180 RULE

You were not specific about dates. Have you checked that your plans do not breach the Schengen 90/18 rules, assuming that one of you does not hold an EU passport and are married, so exempt if always travelling together.

OVERALL COST

As you say without finding a specific storage facility and the related insurance you cannot definitively make a cost comparison.

At the end of the day I doubt whether there will be much difference in cost between leaving the MH in Greece and driving to/fro.

FERRIES - ADRIATIC

I know your preference is to drive through the Balkans, but I think the price you are thinking of for Ancona-Patras or vice-versa is too much, especially if you can get 'Camping-on-deck'(Available April-Oct), as you are living 'at home'. We did it in Summer/Autumn 2021 and price was much lower, but that may have been partly due to Covid restrictions just finishing.

Before Christmas we booked for Sept 2023, as one has to get in early for Camping-on-deck.

If you want to check the ferry prices I can recommend ViaMare, as Dale there specialises in Greek ferries and has direct access to their booking systems. Tel 0044 20 8206 3420. The companies have not yet released their Winter 2022-23 schedules and fares - we are awaiting a call from Dale to book our return.



Whichever way you decide to get to Greece and back it is great for MH touring with few restrictions. Water is easy, but cassette emptying more difficult especially off season when campsites closed - I recommend a spare cassette, if not two. We might buy a second spare before our next Greek trip.

Good luck with planning.

Geoff

 

[jennywren]

There are several points coming out of this useful discussion.

MOT

There are two views on whether it is legal to use a UK vehicle if the UK MOT has expired.

The first view is that the vehicle has to be legal in its country of registration and that a vehicle without MOT is not legal, anywhere.

The alternative view is that UK law says it is illegal to drive a vehicle on a UK road without a valid MOT, but the UK law says nothing about driving it elsewhere. I favour this interpretation but recognise that the authorities in another country may not, although there is little evidence of drivers being asked to show MOT Certificates.

It is well rehearsed that it is legal to drive from a port to a pre-booked MOT test with an expired MOT. I have done it.

SCHENGEN 90/180 RULE

You were not specific about dates. Have you checked that your plans do not breach the Schengen 90/18 rules, assuming that one of you does not hold an EU passport and are married, so exempt if always travelling together.

OVERALL COST

As you say without finding a specific storage facility and the related insurance you cannot definitively make a cost comparison.

At the end of the day I doubt whether there will be much difference in cost between leaving the MH in Greece and driving to/fro.

FERRIES - ADRIATIC

I know your preference is to drive through the Balkans, but I think the price you are thinking of for Ancona-Patras or vice-versa is too much, especially if you can get 'Camping-on-deck'(Available April-Oct), as you are living 'at home'. We did it in Summer/Autumn 2021 and price was much lower, but that may have been partly due to Covid restrictions just finishing.

Before Christmas we booked for Sept 2023, as one has to get in early for Camping-on-deck.

If you want to check the ferry prices I can recommend ViaMare, as Dale there specialises in Greek ferries and has direct access to their booking systems. Tel 0044 20 8206 3420. The companies have not yet released their Winter 2022-23 schedules and fares - we are awaiting a call from Dale to book our return.



Whichever way you decide to get to Greece and back it is great for MH touring with few restrictions. Water is easy, but cassette emptying more difficult especially off season when campsites closed - I recommend a spare cassette, if not two. We might buy a second spare before our next Greek trip.

Good luck with planning.

Geoff

Lots of food for thought, many thanks, your advice and thoughts are really appreciated.

MOT
I was only looking earlier today about MOT and, like you, I could find little conclusive evidence, either way. It is probable that we would be back within 12 months (just!) as our current thoughts are to travel Aug to mid Nov 2023 and again, March to June/July 2024. It does mean that we will need to have an 'extra' interim MOT just prior to leaving the UK (early March is our cyclical time) but small price to pay. I have not checked yet but I assume there will be no requirement for UK road tax whilst outside the UK as I believe you cannot tax a vehicle without a current MOT Certificate in place. So I guess if we were to 'outstay' our MOT, then we would need to pre book one at our port of entry (most likely to be Hull) and then tax it straightaway. This way, we would remain road legal within the UK. We often SORN our van between Nov - Feb/Mar in the knowledge that you can legally drive the vehicle without tax/MOT to a pre-booked MOT test centre.

The two main concerns I have is whether or not the country in which you are driving at the time may impose their own requirements that your vehicle must have a valid 'certificate of road worthiness' (from your home country) to be driving legally on their roads. To me, this would seem common sense and any divergence from this would not be difficult to detect, the sight of such paperwork could be demanded, especially if involved in a traffic accident/legal infringement. Fortunately, I have not been involved in too many incidents/driving offences (two or three, in about 30 years, I think!, that I'm admitting to!), either at home or abroad (zero) but I believe it is normal that all your driving paperwork (tax/insurance/MOT/disqualifications) are then checked electronically at the scene. I assume this is generally the case whilst in Europe (and elsewhere, albeit I have driven extensively in Asia, South America and Africa and not sure what always goes on there!, often the colour of your money in certain situations, so I've heard!) but, again, I assume, they do not have electronic access if your vehicle is registered outside of their country. But, do they not demand hard copies in lieu, this I do not know for sure. We have always carried such paperwork with us, if taking our own car/van abroad, just in case.

My other concern (albeit, not difficult to seek advice from one's insurers) is whether or not your insurance/breakdown cover would be made invalid abroad if the MOT had expired. Potentially, the safety of your vehicle could be contested if such paperwork was not in place and could even be cited as possible reason/cause of such a road traffic accident. Not sure I would want to take this 'risk' unless I had pretty cast iron evidence to the contrary.

It's early days in our planning and, as it has, generally been our intention to return (with the vehicle) within 12 months (and prior to expiry of MOT), it's not something we have researched too much. It would be nice to know for sure though as it could always tempt us to stay a bit longer or even a third season.

SCHENGEN 90/180 RULE
This would not really be an issue for us as many of the adjacent countries (Balkans/Bulgaria/Turkey) are not in Schengen and we would plan, taking this rule into account. In fact, most of the areas we wish to explore, with the exception of Greece are not in the zone (yet!). The Schengen rule is another reason to try and find a storage facility out there. Our three months in Sweden last year averaged about 60 miles per day and this seemed about right for us (total 5200 miles over 86 days). For example Hungary/Romania border (edge of Schengen) to Rotterdam is a minimum of 1000 miles and for us, let's say 10 days each way, a total of 20 days off the Schengen allowance. I know it can be done in much less, we used to do Bristol to Chamonix non stop (2 or 3 sharing the driving!) and Bristol to Aviemore/Fort William return on a Friday/Sunday night, regularly, for winter climbing weekends (and be back in work for Monday morning!, but, not necessarily fit for work!) in our younger days. But, not now, for us, being somewhere is far more enjoyable than the driving, but that's just us.

Overall Cost
Depending on the cost of storage, I still think leaving the van out there could be quite a bit cheaper as a 4000 mile round trip (home to Patras for example) including Hull/Newcastle ferry would amount to about circa £2000. However, cost is probably not our main factor, we would prefer that extra time in Southern Europe/Turkey.

Adriatic Ferries
My £1200 to £1500 came from Direct Ferries (also looked at Go Ferry) and did not include a cabin as we would be happy with the 'sleeping deck'. This was for the Ancona/Patras route. I guess the southern routes would be cheaper but this then defeats the benefit of reducing the road miles. Thanks for your advice regarding the ferry broker you use, it's great to have a name and number and they may well offer a better price. We have considered the ferry one way but one of the attractions of our trip is the thought of exploring the Balkans region and as there is a lot to see (and do) here, ideally, we would transit this region both ways.


Thanks for your advice on motor homing in Greece, it's not a country I know at all (other than 2 weeks on Corfu many years ago! and my wife did several business trips to Athens and Patras) so we would like to spend a good chunk of our time there, possibly out of the main tourist season.