lifeboat inn thornham

[iandsm]

Apart from the possibility of wanting to serve a more up-market clientele (as mentioned in an earlier post) they may just be thinking along the same lines as other pub/restaurant chains - they are not in the business of running caravan sites.

Allowing a motorhome or two in a car park when the owner is taking a meal and drinks is hardly running caravan site is it. Britstops are not caravan sites either. But then of course they are not pub/ restaurant chains, they have individual landlords. They don't see motorhomes as downmarket but as valued customers. Of course it's perfectly understandable not to accept Motorhomes during building works but it appears that now they will never be welcome.

But that's life I suppose.

 

[GJH]

Allowing a motorhome or two in a car park when the owner is taking a meal and drinks is hardly running caravan site is it. Britstops are not caravan sites either. But then of course they are not pub/ restaurant chains, they have individual landlords. They don't see motorhomes as downmarket but as valued customers. Of course it's perfectly understandable not to accept Motorhomes during building works but it appears that now they will never be welcome.

But that's life I suppose.

Allowing a motorhome or two in a car park when the owner is taking a meal and drinks is not running a caravan site but, as I said, the way I read the manager's reply to Keith did not ban motorhomes whilst their occupants are in the pub/restaurant.

Allowing motorhomes to be occupied in the car park, though, is (in law) running a caravan site. 1960 Act S1(4) "In this Part of this Act the expression “caravan site” means land on which a caravan is stationed for the purposes of human habitation and land which is used in conjunction with land on which a caravan is so stationed."

 

[chaser]

Allowing a motorhome or two in a car park when the owner is taking a meal and drinks is not running a caravan site but, as I said, the way I read the manager's reply to Keith did not ban motorhomes whilst their occupants are in the pub/restaurant.

Allowing motorhomes to be occupied in the car park, though, is (in law) running a caravan site. 1960 Act S1(4) "In this Part of this Act the expression “caravan site” means land on which a caravan is stationed for the purposes of human habitation and land which is used in conjunction with land on which a caravan is so stationed."

I'm still, even though we use them, not convinced that Brit stops are totally above board, if something happens , fire , robbery , accident, 101 things,either road, whose insurance pays, pub could say they didn't tell you to stay there, you could say they did , where's it end

 

[iandsm]

I'm still, even though we use them, convinced that Brit stops are totally above board, if something happens , fire , robbery , accident, 101 things,either road, whose insurance pays, pub could say they didn't tell you to stay there, you could say they did , where's it end

I cannot believe that Britstops was launched and now operates without sufficient research into the legalities. A motorhome is classed as a vehicle, which clearly a caravan is not. It is also taxed and insured as a vehicle. Ok one can sleep in a motorhome so it is inhabited in that sense but a caravan is intended and designed for habitation nothing else.

Mind you looking at the legislation I am not so sure,

1960 Act "“caravan” means any structure designed or adapted for human habitation which is capable of being moved from one place to another (whether by being towed, or by being transported on a motor vehicle or trailer) and any motor vehicle so designed or adapted, but does not include— "

I think it can be argued that a motorhome is not primarily designed for human habitation but rather as a vehicle used for transportation and that sleeping in it or inhabiting it is merely ancillary to its intended purpose.

 

[iandsm]

Allowing a motorhome or two in a car park when the owner is taking a meal and drinks is not running a caravan site but, as I said, the way I read the manager's reply to Keith did not ban motorhomes whilst their occupants are in the pub/restaurant.

Allowing motorhomes to be occupied in the car park, though, is (in law) running a caravan site. 1960 Act S1(4) "In this Part of this Act the expression “caravan site” means land on which a caravan is stationed for the purposes of human habitation and land which is used in conjunction with land on which a caravan is so stationed."

I took the reply to the effect that Motorhomes were not allowed at any time even if having a meal. Perhaps I was wrong. I hope so.

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[GJH]

I cannot believe that Britstops was launched and now operates without sufficient research into the legalities. A motorhome is classed as a vehicle, which clearly a caravan is not. It is also taxed and insured as a vehicle. Ok one can sleep in a motorhome so it is inhabited in that sense but a caravan is intended and designed for habitation nothing else.

Mind you looking at the legislation I am not so sure,

1960 Act "“caravan” means any structure designed or adapted for human habitation which is capable of being moved from one place to another (whether by being towed, or by being transported on a motor vehicle or trailer) and any motor vehicle so designed or adapted, but does not include— "

I think it can be argued that a motorhome is not primarily designed for human habitation but rather as a vehicle used for transportation and that sleeping in it or inhabiting it is merely ancillary to its intended purpose.

Sorry, but that argument loses. As far as the 1960 Act is concerned a motorhome is a caravan. That's why (for instance) Walmart allow RV camping in the USA but Asda don't here (officially at least).

I took the reply to the effect that Motorhomes were not allowed at any time even if having a meal. Perhaps I was wrong. I hope so.

I would hope so too. I've contacted goodness knows how many businesses over the last 9 and a half years about daytime parking and most allow it where they have room and don't have problems with travellers or commercial vehicles clogging up their car parks.

 

[iandsm]

Sorry, but that argument loses. As far as the 1960 Act is concerned a motorhome is a caravan. That's why (for instance) Walmart allow RV camping in the USA but Asda don't here (officially at least).

I would hope so too. I've contacted goodness knows how many businesses over the last 9 and a half years about daytime parking and most allow it where they have room and don't have problems with travellers or commercial vehicles clogging up their car parks.

So does it follow that you think hosts under the Britstops scheme are in breach of the law,

Do you think when I let my visiting family sleep overnight in their motorhome on my drive for one night am I running a caravan site.

 

[chaser]

So does it follow that you think hosts under the Britstops scheme are in breach of the law,

Do you think when I let my visiting family sleep overnight in their motorhome on my drive for one night am I running a caravan site.

Two seperate questions there, I have never been convinced about the legality of britstops , I use them as do thousands of others but as I said in an earlier post , what happens when something goes wrong, as is shown in another thread of a woman tripping over a rope and sueing for millions, in your drive is a different thing but even then according to the rules they are not supposed to eat in the van, this could go on all day you just have to go with the flow and worry about it after.

 

[iandsm]

Two seperate questions there, I have never been convinced about the legality of britstops , I use them as do thousands of others but as I said in an earlier post , what happens when something goes wrong, as is shown in another thread of a woman tripping over a rope and sueing for millions, in your drive is a different thing but even then according to the rules they are not supposed to eat in the van, this could go on all day you just have to go with the flow and worry about it after.

Yes I think your right to worry about it later and I expect we will never need to. Whether it's a Britstop host or is a private individuals I doubt there would ever be action taken. It's a planning issue not a criminal matter and I expect the chances of anyone being prosecuted are very slim.

Just an edit, I found this on the caravan Club website, I haven't looked at the 1960 Act to confirm it and I dot intend to, I have no reason to think the posts are not correct,

"
Britstops hosts (and those of the similar Motorhome Stopover scheme) operate without certificates so are bound by the 1960 Act restrictions of one van at a time and a maximum of 28 nights in any 12 month period.

Steve, the owner, has said elsewhere "The law is that anyone is allowed to host one motorhome on their land for one or two nights. They can have 28 total stays per year. If any of our hosts have had more than this, we haven't been told.""

 

[Khizzie]

Ironic that it was his company that made such a hash of running the Lifeboat and the other three pubs isn't it?

I don't think the manager's reply implied that all the abusers were in motorhomes did it? Nor, if I read it correctly, is it a ban on motorhomes whilst their occupants are in the pub/restaurant but just not allowing the car park to be used for camping.

As regards the charge for dogs, a quick Google search indicates that £10 isn't out of line with charges made by several other hotels.

MPW also ruined the Yew Tree pub at Highclere in Hampshire. Then disappeared from the scene.. .

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[GJH]

So does it follow that you think hosts under the Britstops scheme are in breach of the law,

Do you think when I let my visiting family sleep overnight in their motorhome on my drive for one night am I running a caravan site.

As per your subsequent post, pubs &c operate legally as long as they comply with the exemptions quoted (which are a summary of paras 2 and 3 of Schedule 1 to the 1960 Act). It was discussed on here a couple of years ago, see Broken Link Removed.

Visitors at your home (whether family or not) are allowed under the exemption in para 1 of Schedule 1 - "A site licence shall not be required for the use of land as a caravan site if the use is incidental to the enjoyment as such of a dwellinghouse within the curtilage of which the land is situated.". Note that there is nothing in that exemption which prevents eating in the van.

I agree that it is unlikely, in current circumstances, that action will be taken against a pub. What would trigger it would be if the pub allowed so much camping that it affected the business of a caravan site nearby.