I-cad - What’s it all about?

[maz]

The I-cad website boldly displays the following message concerning the issue of Pet Passports post-Brexit:

Using Google Translate (which has its limitations but is the best I can do) this reads as:

The veterinarian can only issue a French passport to an animal holding a UK/EU passport issued before 1 January 2021 after verifying that the animal's identification number has been registered in the national identification file for domestic carnivores (I-CAD) and an identification card has been issued.

Otherwise, the veterinarian may register the animal in the national identification file ICAD, if the animal's stay in France is more than 3 consecutive months, in accordance with Article 22 of the MA of 1 August 2012 on the identification of domestic carnivores.

When issuing the passport, the veterinarian must record:

The date of identification indicated on the UK/EU passport,

Valid rabies vaccination data, with reference to the number of the UK/EU passport or health certificate that accompanied the animal.

The owner of the animal can keep the UK/EU passport to justify valid vaccinations.

There are a few things about this message that need questioning:

1. Why is there only a reference (underlined) to animals with UK pet passports issued before 1 Jan 2021? What about issuing a French pet passport to an animal that has entered on an AHC?

2. The second paragraph does not even make sense. It implies that an animal can only be registered on I-cad if it stays in France for more than 3 consecutive months. However, Article 22 of the Arrêté that it refers to says no such thing. It actually just says that I-cad registration is not required for animals staying in France for less than 3 months. If the animal stays in France for longer than 3 months, then it becomes a legal obligation for it to be I-cad registered. However, you can still choose to register your pet with I-cad even though it is not legally required for you to do so.

3. What is the actual source of this message and what is it based on? If it is an official directive, why is there no trace of it to be found on the Internet? (Unless someone is able to find it for me.)

A further inaccuracy that surfaces from time to time is that you have to have a French address in order for your pet to be registered with I-cad. The I-cad registration form allows for an address in a country other than France. So provision is actually made for a pet owner to register a UK address.

Further exploration of the I-cad website leads to their ‘documents’ page.

Les documents

Now this is where I could do with a native French speaker, however it seems to me that the first form on the page is the one that is required to register a pet with I-cad.

You will notice that there is no mention of any charge alongside this form. Scrolling down to the last form you will see that there is a charge of 9,23€ (payable by cheque) listed alongside it.

This is the amount that Brits are reporting being charged if they manage to find a French vet that will issue a pet passport. However, this form relates to actually importing an animal into France from abroad and is therefore surely inappropriate.

So just what is the difficulty in issuing a French pet passport to a Brit-owned pet? If France wants to make I-cad registration a condition of issuing pet passports, it can be done simply and easily by completing the first form with a UK address and without further payment.

 

[emjaiuk]

yodeli ?

 

[DBK]

My understanding is the first part is all about dogs being brought into France by people who live there. If the dog is already registered in France on the I-CAD system a UK passport issued before Brexit can be used as proof of vaccination. Otherwise, if the dog is not on I-CAD it can be registered on it after it has been in France over 3 months which won't happen on a visit by someone living in the UK.

The whole section doesn't cover visitors.

 

[yodeli]

Bloomin heck! Even with my glasses on I can't read properly.

I must say that right now, I don't get it all. Is it an emergency or can it wait for tomorrow day light?
I need first to understand each step, to be able to answer or translate properly.
May be you could send me the link where you found it all, so I can read all and not only bits.
Just as may be a light in the dark, from the little bit I manage to understand (when I am hungry it becomes very difficult LOL) All this is only for either English people who are going to STAY in France (or for French people) and make their animal French.
It is a transfert of "indentity papers" . I don't think this is for people going to travel around France or transiting through the country.
But I will tell you more tomorrow!

 

[maz]

My understanding is the first part is all about dogs being brought into France by people who live there. If the dog is already registered in France on the I-CAD system a UK passport issued before Brexit can be used as proof of vaccination. Otherwise, if the dog is not on I-CAD it can be registered on it after it has been in France over 3 months which won't happen on a visit by someone living in the UK.

The whole section doesn't cover visitors.

That’s an interesting take on it, John, but that first item seems to be what some (most?) French vets are interpreting as applying to the issue of pet passports to Brits. Also, if a dog is being imported into France from abroad it has to be registered within 8 days of arriving in France, not after a wait of 3 months.

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[maz]

. Duplicate post

 

[maz]

Bloomin heck! Even with my glasses on I can't read properly.

I must say that right now, I don't get it all. Is it an emergency or can it wait for tomorrow day light?
I need first to understand each step, to be able to answer or translate properly.
May be you could send me the link where you found it all, so I can read all and not only bits.
Just as may be a light in the dark, from the little bit I manage to understand (when I am hungry it becomes very difficult LOL) All this is only for either English people who are going to STAY in France (or for French people) and make their animal French.
It is a transfert of "indentity papers" . I don't think this is for people going to travel around France or transiting through the country.
But I will tell you more tomorrow!

Hi Frankie. No, there’s no rush.

The bit I’d like you to look at please is the page called ‘Les documents’, link below:

https://www.i-cad.fr/articles/documents_identification

In particular, the first and last forms mentioned on that page. I think the last form is only relevant if you are importing a pet into France from abroad, but would appreciate confirmation please. Many thanks.

 

[yodeli]

the last form is only relevant if you are importing a pet into France from abroad

Correct

 

[maz]

Correct

So I’m wondering why Brits are being charged the 9,23€ that goes with that form, when it seems that the first form is all that is needed.

Also, do you know of any official directive that says that French vets can only issue pet passports to Brits if their animals are registered on I-cad? Many thanks.

 

[yodeli]

maz

Best thing I guess is to contact them and I can do that. There's up right "nous contacter" and I have seen there's a phone number.
So I can do that on monday or tuesday according to the kind of "silence" I'll be offered by my 3 little devils (7 months/ 21 months /2years1/2 !!!)

Can you type the exact questions that you need an answer to, so I know where I'm going.

Will let you know on here ASAP

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[yodeli]

So I’m wondering why Brits are being charged the 9,23€ that goes with that form, when it seems that the first form is all that is needed.

Also, do you know of any official directive that says that French vets can only issue pet passports to Brits if their animals are registered on I-cad? Many thanks.

I think this stands for importation only.
I'm a bit lost now with pets' duties. My dog died 14 years ago, and as a childminder, the rules became so strict I never wanted to offer this kind of life to a loved pet.

 

[maz]

maz

Best thing I guess is to contact them and I can do that. There's up right "nous contacter" and I have seen there's a phone number.
So I can do that on monday or tuesday according to the kind of "silence" I'll be offered by my 3 little devils (7 months/ 21 months /2years1/2 !!!)

Can you type the exact questions that you need an answer to, so I know where I'm going.

Will let you know on here ASAP

Thanks, Frankie, that’s excellent and very kind of you.

I’ll work out the questions that I’d like answered and will post them here tomorrow.

 

[Spriddler]

This was in a post last week on Fun and it seems that the pet's passport must have been issued before Jan 1st 2021

French pet passport no more !!!!

Looks like euro pet passport no more for uk animals !!!

www.motorhomefun.co.uk

 

[maz]

This was in a post last week on Fun and it seems that the pet's passport must have been issued before Jan 1st 2021

French pet passport no more !!!!

Looks like euro pet passport no more for uk animals !!!

www.motorhomefun.co.uk

View attachment 599673

That was also posted about in the following thread:
https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/foru...btain-an-eu-pet-passport.259215/#post-4969575

It is nothing new and still quoting the same old inaccuracies, except this time they decided to write British nationals instead of British residents. The source of this particular article was schengenvisa.com who are actually nothing to do with the EU or any other government agency, nor are they anything to do with issuing Schengen visas.

 

[maz]

yodeli

Hi Frankie and thank you again for offering to contact I-cad on our behalf.

I think it would be best if the questions could be emailed to I-cad rather than phoned, as that way we will have a written copy of the answers.

After the first question, subsequent questions will depend upon the answer to that first question. So this could run for a while ……

Also, Frankie, could you please translate any legal disclaimers on the I-cad website relating to information either written on their website or provided in replies.

Q1. A British resident holidaying in France wishes to obtain a pet passport for their dog. The dog has already been microchipped and vaccinated against rabies in Great Britain and has entered France on an Animal Health Certificate. The dog will be in France for less than 3 months. Does the dog need to be registered on I-cad in order to receive a French pet passport?

If answer is ‘no’ - great!

If the answer is ‘yes’ - Q2. Which form needs to be completed in order to register the dog? and
Q3. Can the form be completed using an address in Great Britain?

If the answer is ‘yes’ - great!

If the answer is ‘no’ - Q4. Why is there provision on the form for an address in a country other than France?

If the answer to Q1 is ‘yes but you can’t obtain a pet passport anyway because you have to be a French resident’ - Q5. Where is this written in law, please? Can you provide a link to this actual law?

Have I missed anything? Or does anyone have any other questions that they would like to be asked?

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[yodeli]

Awaiting first in case of other questions and will e-mail the translated equivalent when everyone has said OK

 

[maz]

Awaiting first in case of other questions and will e-mail the translated equivalent when everyone has said OK

Thanks Frankie. Perhaps leave sending the email until Tuesday, so that other people will have had time to add any questions if they want to.

 

[Rennieda]

Thanks for all this info!

 

[maz]

Thanks for all this info!

Hi and welcome to the Fun!


Hopefully we might have some more info for you soon. The whole subject of French pet passports and I-cad is rapidly becoming degree-level material.

 

[yodeli]

Questions sent

I had to make a choice with animals so have chosen "dogs" but did say in my e-mail it could be cats as well.

We just have to wait now... and see what they say!

Amicalement
Frankie

Edit: Yuk... had to send another message as I made a grammar mistake... very silly indeed, my head hurts and I can't think properly lol! First sentence : posER and not posEZ !

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[maz]

Posted by yodeli in another thread:

Dear me.... It seems so very difficult , I can't read it all, I get dizzy!
Still no answer maz . I wonder how long it will take. May be a phone call to boost them and make them answer with an e-mail?

Hi Frankie. Yes, I’d hoped that I-cad would have replied to you by now. A chasing phone call might kickstart them, but I’d certainly prefer to see any of their responses in writing. Many thanks for helping with this.

 

[maz]

Posted by yodeli in another thread:

Hi all!
Just had I-Cad on the phone. I insisted on the fact we needed an e-mail so that everyone could refer to it, and also that a lot of you wanted to leave the UK for a holiday and that the timing was very important!
It's going to be done apparently on wednesday this week.
So just a bit more patience and you should have all the answers needed.
Cross your fingers!

Hi Frankie. Many thanks for that - let’s see what Wednesday brings …….

 

[maz]

Posted by yodeli in another thread:

Hi All!

Answer came this afternoon, sorry was busy with the the little ones So here it is.
If you want me to, I can contact the department they have pointed out in their e-mail
Had to copy the mail bit by bit as my Zimbra e-mail box won't let me copy/paste the whole thing.... And Ok I'm not very clever with computering!


Dossier(s) Concerne(s) :

Madame GUILAIN Francoise,


Pour les animaux restant moins de trois mois en France, il n'est pas nécessaire de les enregistrer dans notre fichier.


Concernant un texte de loi, nous n'en connaissons pas, nous vous prions de vous rapprocher de la DDPP (Direction Départementale de la Protection des Populations) de votre région.

Retrouvez les réponses à toutes vos questions sur notre site Internet www.i-cad.fr, rubrique "Démarches / Questions-réponses".

Cordialement,

Nathalie C.

De : tibou150@aliceadsl.fr
Envoyé le : 2022-03-30 07:58:52
A : contact@i-cad.fr
CC :
Objet : ContactICAD Grand Public : Divers

Famille	Grand Public
Catégorie	Grand Public
Nom prénom	GUILAIN Françoise
Email	tibou150@aliceadsl.fr
Thème	Divers
Espèce	CHIEN
N° d'identification
Message	Bonjour Je me fais l'intermédiaire de résidents britanniques camping-caristes pour vous posez des questions pour leur passage de frontière avec leur(s) animaux de compagnie. Cela va plus vers le groupe canin, mais il peut y avoir des chat concernés. Merci pour votre retour sur les questions suivantes. Un résident britannique en vacances en France souhaite obtenir un passeport animalier pour son chien. Le chien a déjà été pucé et vacciné contre la rage en Grande-Bretagne et est entré en France avec un certificat de santé animale. Le chien sera en France moins de 3 mois. Le chien doit-il être enregistré sur I-cad pour recevoir un passeport français pour animaux de compagnie ? si la réponse est 'non' - super! Si la réponse est "oui" - Q2. Quel formulaire doit être rempli pour enregistrer le chien ? et Q3. Le formulaire peut-il être rempli avec une adresse en Grande-Bretagne ? Si la réponse est « oui » - super ! Si la réponse est "non" - Q4. Pourquoi est-il prévu sur le formulaire une adresse dans un pays autre que la France ? Si la réponse à Q1 est "oui mais vous ne pouvez de toute façon pas obtenir de passeport pour animal de compagnie car vous devez être résident français" - Q5. Où est-ce écrit dans la loi, s'il vous plaît? Pouvez-vous fournir un lien vers cette loi actuelle?

You're welcome

Many thanks, Frankie, for posting their reply. I have translated it below:

For animals remaining in France for less than three months, it is not necessary to save them in our file.

Regarding a law, we do not know any, please contact the DDPP (Departmental Directorate of Population Protection) in your region.

From what they have said, it would seem that I-cad registration is not necessary in order to obtain a French pet passport (although it would have been better if they could have explicitly stated that fact), and that they know of no law that says you have to be a French resident in order to obtain one.

Which would all appear to be very good news for British holidaymakers wanting to get EU pet passports in France.

 

[maz]

My understanding is the first part is all about dogs being brought into France by people who live there. If the dog is already registered in France on the I-CAD system a UK passport issued before Brexit can be used as proof of vaccination. Otherwise, if the dog is not on I-CAD it can be registered on it after it has been in France over 3 months which won't happen on a visit by someone living in the UK.

The whole section doesn't cover visitors.

You know, John, I’m starting to think you could well be right about ’that Brexit statement’ on the I-cad website - with the exception of the bit that I’ve highlighted in red in your post above. The vet can register a dog on I-cad if it will be staying in France for more than 3 consecutive months - in fact, it is a legal requirement. If the dog is staying for more than 3 months it is effectively being ‘imported’ and therefore must be registered on I-cad within 8 days of its arrival in France (not after having stayed in France for more than 3 months).

The reply that we received from I-cad to our specific question about obtaining a French pet passport for a dog owned by a British holidaymaker, was that I-cad registration was not necessary for an animal staying for less than 3 months. Also they knew of no law that limited the issue of pet passports to French residents - and nobody else that I know of has been able to produce any such law either.

So the more I think about it, the more I think you are correct in that ‘that Brexit statement’ does not apply to visitors to France but only to French residents. That is the only way that I can get ‘that Brexit statement‘ to make any sense.

 

[yodeli]

Hi All

Question sent.
Sorry I have been overbooked with mum in hospital!

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[maz]

Hi AllView attachment 608859
Question sent.
Sorry I have been overbooked with mum in hospital!

Many thanks, Frankie. Hope Mum is doing ok.

 

[yodeli]

She is better today for the first time. They think of releasing her on tuesday if oxygen has reached its normal level (95 to 99) she went down to 80 many times these last few days... quite worrying, she was very weak with her lungs infected... and no, not covid!

 

[yodeli]

Answer came this afternoon

Dossier(s) Concerne(s) :

Madame GUILAIN Françoise,

Tout d'abord, nous vous présentons nos sincères excuses pour cette réponse tardive.

Nous vous informons que l'enregistrement d'une identification étrangère dans le Fichier National Français nécessite uniquement d'avoir une résidence en France et ne concerne donc pas uniquement les résidents français.

De plus, veuillez trouver ci-joint un lien internet vous indiquant les démarches à suivre pour enregistrer une puce étrangères

https://www.i-cad.fr/articles/importation-animal-france-pays-tiers-demarches


Retrouvez les réponses à toutes vos questions sur notre site Internet www.i-cad.fr, rubrique "Démarches / Questions-réponses".

Cordialement,

Johanna M.

Translation: Only requires having a residence in France and therefore does not only concern French residents.

Hope it helps!

Amicalement
Frankie

 

[maz]

Many thanks for your efforts Frankie - but I-cad seem to have ducked the issue concerning pet passports.

Using the dreaded Google translate on your question to them I get:

Hello again! I contacted you recently to help British citizens understand the rules governed by l-Cad. I have one last question from them: These are the rules relating to BREXIT: Does the application of the rules set out on your site only concern animals imported into France by French residents? Thank you for your comeback.

To which their reply is:

We inform you that the registration of a foreign identification in the French National File only requires having a residence in France and therefore does not only concern French residents.

This does not address the issue of who the opening sentence of their ‘Brexit statement’ is actually aimed at - people importing animals into France (ie for over 3 months stay) or holidaymakers seeking an EU pet passport.

I think we probably have to leave it be, as my will to live has scampered off over the horizon as I expect yours has too! But again, many thanks for your help.

 

[maz]

Slightly interesting update

The 'Documents' page of the I-cad website has changed. There used to be (I think) five different documents illustrated on that page - certainly more than three. The 'Certificate of Importation' with its accompanying charge of €9.23 has disappeared. This is the one that Brits were told by various vets they had to complete in order to obtain a French Pet Passport. This was always a nonsense as the dogs were never being imported. There is now just the basic 'Provisional Identification Certificate' which is completed in order to receive the Identification Card. So no charge should be levied by French vets for I-cad registration.

Les documents

www.i-cad.fr

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