I’ve come across a problem that concerns me greatly it is to do with 6 seatbelt motorhomes (1 Viewer)

[Mikecarruthers]

I have a Autotrail Apache 700 2019 it has 6 seat belts fitted to it I don’t have a problem with the forward facing seats as they at fitted correctly and conform to all regulations the issue I have is with the rear facing belts these are fitted with a forward facing seatbelt tower Not designed for rear facing seats it seems that there is no regulation regarding these ,on the Apache there is a back rest which forms part of the seat which is basically a piece of covered ply mine is secured with just two screws in the event of a forward impact if the person or persons are sitting in those seats and are weighing 80 kilograms each that at 50 miles an hour equates to a force of 9 tonnes each person 18 tonnes in total which 2 wood screws and a piece of plywood had got to secure if find this very disturbing Autotrail

 

[EuroTrotters]

Doesn’t sound like the beet design for safety .

Have you contacted autotrail?

Mind you, probably get some mast injuries from flying habitation debris !.

What’s the velocity of a tin of Heinz beans at 50mph ? Bullet ?

 

[Miggs]

What’s the velocity of a tin of Heinz beans at 50mph ? Bullet ?

Er no.... it's 50mph!

 

[The Wino]

Doesn’t sound like the beet design for safety .

Have you contacted autotrail?

Mind you, probably get some mast injuries from flying habitation debris !.

What’s the velocity of a tin of Heinz beans at 50mph ? Bullet ?

The velocity of a tin of beans at 50 mph is 50 mph!. Agree about the debris though. From the picture it looks like the majority of the force will be resisted by the passengers seat back unless there's a steel frame behind the passenger seat.I doubt its rated for the weight of 3 people . I think all coachbuilt and a class motorhomes in a crash are probably as safe as a 1970,s car

 

[EuroTrotters]

Er no.... it's 50mph!

Okay, I only went to school for my dinners !

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[The Wino]

I think the thing with stuff flying around is the amount of energy it's got which will be mass X velocity squared. Doubling the mass doubles the energy doubling the velocity quadruples it. The bullet would be likely to be doing 1200 metres a second muzzle velocity the tin of beans 22. The bullet therefore has roughly 3000 times more energy per gramme. Of course they could both kill you!

 

[poppycamper]

I think the thing with stuff flying around is the amount of energy it's got which will be mass X velocity squared. Doubling the mass doubles the energy doubling the velocity quadruples it. The bullet would be likely to be doing 1200 metres a second muzzle velocity the tin of beans 22. The bullet therefore has roughly 3000 times more energy per gramme. Of course they could both kill you!

Oh feck.....I ain't never eating beans again

 

[WillysMB]

I posted a video a few days ago bout the construction of a motorhome and it showed the steel frame construction which the seats/safety belts are built on ....might be worth investigating what's behind the wooden seat base

 

[CazPaul]

The velocity of a tin of beans at 50 mph is 50 mph!. Agree about the debris though. From the picture it looks like the majority of the force will be resisted by the passengers seat back unless there's a steel frame behind the passenger seat.I doubt its rated for the weight of 3 people . I think all coachbuilt and a class motorhomes in a crash are probably as safe as a 1970,s car

I would say it depends on the A class, ours feels like driving a little tank.
I would agree about some Coachbuilts though they’re like paper walls I came across an accident with one a few months ago all the side and back had disintegrated.
I could have put my fist through that I thought.

 

[bigalw35]

get in touch with your insurer they will tell you how many seats they are prepared in insure, DVLA based on log book details

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[WillysMB]

Came across this Video on YT, thought it may interest you all.

How motorhome are made ( professional TV prog )

www.motorhomefun.co.uk

 

[scotzsue]

Our old 6 berth escape had proper seatbelts with the metal frame, it was a lightweight alko chassis and we had over 600kg payload.
mostly used for 2 though, photo from the side would have looked similar to the OP as most of the fixings were either under the seat or behind the cushions.

 

[rolosroller]

I would say it depends on the A class, ours feels like driving a little tank.
I would agree about some Coachbuilts though they’re like paper walls I came across an accident with one a few months ago all the side and back had disintegrated.
I could have put my fist through that I thought.


View attachment 687519

I don't think it really matters what you have got ,Its going to hurt regardless

 

[Landy Andy]

Are you sure there isn’t a metal frame under that seat? Mine has a very elaborate frame under each seat.

 

[Podney]

Eeeeeeek! 6 people in a motorhome,that’d be the death of me within a couple of days,without tins of beans flying in to me.

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[Nanniemate]

get in touch with your insurer they will tell you how many seats they are prepared in insure, DVLA based on log book details

does it matter what the insurance will pay out if your loved ones are killed or injured it depends on how the seat is anchored to the floor, there is nothing behind the coach seats in the picture

 

[Terry]

May I point out that rear facing seatbelts are not required so even if there is not metal fixing they are better than having none.

 

[The Wino]

May I point out that rear facing seatbelts are not required so even if there is not metal fixing they are better than having none.

I think the ops main concern isn't the seatbelts its the strength of the seat particularly the back as in a rear facing seat it's most likely that the seatback will be the restraint not the seatbelt which might only be holding you in place as the bean tin hurtles towards you.

 

[Ernesto]

get in touch with your insurer they will tell you how many seats they are prepared in insure, DVLA based on log book details

I'd suggest steer clear of insurance companies at this stage. They'll only quote the DVLA paperwork at you and you risk opening a right can of worms.
I'd start with Autotrail if you are that worried and are actually planning to use those seats with any frequency

 

[Terry]

I think the ops main concern isn't the seatbelts its the strength of the seat particularly the back as in a rear facing seat it's most likely that the seatback will be the restraint not the seatbelt which might only be holding you in place as the bean tin hurtles towards you.

The seatback , backs the front seat so that would also helpIf OP wants to carry 6 they need to declare carrying 6 and regardless of v5 (if it says 4) they have 6 seatbelts fitted

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[Mikecarruthers]

I have a Autotrail Apache 700 2019 it has 6 seat belts fitted to it I don’t have a problem with the forward facing seats as they at fitted correctly and conform to all regulations the issue I have is with the rear facing belts these are fitted with a forward facing seatbelt tower Not designed for rear facing seats it seems that there is no regulation regarding these ,on the Apache there is a back rest which forms part of the seat which is basically a piece of covered ply mine is secured with just two screws in the event of a forward impact if the person or persons are sitting in those seats and are weighing 80 kilograms each that at 50 miles an hour equates to a force of 9 tonnes each person 18 tonnes in total which 2 wood screws and a piece of plywood had got to secure if find this very disturbing Autotrail View attachment 687493

On this vehicle there is no metal frame the only means of attachment is two wood screws I have spoken to Autotrail about this they say they are confident with this design two wood screws to 18 tonnes I think some has the calculations wrong I have tried to speak to the company that designed the seat belt frame they refused to comment referring me back to Autotrail I have spoke to trading standards and sent documents raisednthe issue with DVSA they have asked me to file a dangerous vehicle report and have also raised this issue with the trade association for motorhome and caravans up to press know one has responded next step is to employ the services of motor engineer s to look at this having said that it’s the same across all motorhomes with this configuration I would like to see the insurance company reaction to this

 

[The Wino]

On this vehicle there is no metal frame the only means of attachment is two wood screws I have spoken to Autotrail about this they say they are confident with this design two wood screws to 18 tonnes I think some has the calculations wrong I have tried to speak to the company that designed the seat belt frame they refused to comment referring me back to Autotrail I have spoke to trading standards and sent documents raisednthe issue with DVSA they have asked me to file a dangerous vehicle report and have also raised this issue with the trade association for motorhome and caravans up to press know one has responded next step is to employ the services of motor engineer s to look at this having said that it’s the same across all motorhomes with this configuration I would like to see the insurance company reaction to this

Sadly I think all your likely to acheive is making it harder to insure for the extra seats and a reduction in the resale value as it won't appeal to anyone wanting 6 seats. Our Chausson flash3 had 6 seats I'm pretty sure they had a steel frame so it won't necessarily affect all 6 seaters

 

[Jim]

I think and the time it was sold as a 4 travel seat van with an option for 6. You'd have thought that Desginated Travel Seats would have to conform to several regulations, but I'm not sure. It is an NCC Approved van so writing to those guys might help.

 

[Mikecarruthers]

On this vehicle there is no metal support frame the only means of attachment for the seat back which appears to be ply is two 25mm wood screws I have spoken to Autotrail about this there response was I had to take a day of work so I could travel one hour 30 minutes back to the dealership where they would come and look when I said I couldn’t done that on that day they said I was uncooperative even though they had seen the photographs and the dealers have inspected the vehicle they said and I quote we are confident with the design of our furniture when I pointed out that two wood screws into a piece of plywood was not enough to hold 18 tonnes of force they have not been in touch since I spoke to the design manufacturer for the seatbelt frame they refused to comment or give details and reference my back to Autotrail I have tried to speak with caravans and motorhome council over this and they have not returned any correspondence I have spoken to DVSA they have told me to file a dangerous vehicle complaint which I’m doing at this moment the next course of action is a independent assessment from a firm of qualified engineers and also to raise the issue with the insurance companies to see what happens

 

[The Wino]

On this vehicle there is no metal support frame the only means of attachment for the seat back which appears to be ply is two 25mm wood screws I have spoken to Autotrail about this there response was I had to take a day of work so I could travel one hour 30 minutes back to the dealership where they would come and look when I said I couldn’t done that on that day they said I was uncooperative even though they had seen the photographs and the dealers have inspected the vehicle they said and I quote we are confident with the design of our furniture when I pointed out that two wood screws into a piece of plywood was not enough to hold 18 tonnes of force they have not been in touch since I spoke to the design manufacturer for the seatbelt frame they refused to comment or give details and reference my back to Autotrail I have tried to speak with caravans and motorhome council over this and they have not returned any correspondence I have spoken to DVSA they have told me to file a dangerous vehicle complaint which I’m doing at this moment the next course of action is a independent assessment from a firm of qualified engineers and also to raise the issue with the insurance companies to see what happens

I don't really quite get what you want them to do. Are you hoping for them to fit a metal frame do you have the payload?. Or a refund of what you paid less an allowance for use for 5 years it won't go a long way towards a new one.

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[Mikecarruthers]

I think and the time it was sold as a 4 travel seat van with an option for 6. You'd have thought that Desginated Travel Seats would have to conform to several regulations, but I'm not sure. It is an NCC Approved van so writing to those guys might help.

This was sold as a vehicle with 6 designated seats from brand new I am the first owner the only reason this has come into my field of thought was I was travelling with six people on board a car came out of a side road and I had to brake sharply to avoid the seat back holding to two rear facing passengers came away the dining table collapsed having lost its mount to the side of the motorhome this incident was not in anyway a lock up steer and avoid it was just hard braking in a straight line

 

[Just smiffy]

Didn’t you check all this before you bought it..? What sort of payload does it have…

 

[St3v3]

Will the seat in front not be what actually takes the load?

 

[Jim]

This was sold as a vehicle with 6 designated seats from brand new I am the first owner the only reason this has come into my field of thought was I was travelling with six people on board a car came out of a side road and I had to brake sharply to avoid the seat back holding to two rear facing passengers came away the dining table collapsed having lost its mount to the side of the motorhome this incident was not in anyway a lock up steer and avoid it was just hard braking in a straight line

Are you supposed to travel with the table in place? Most makers advice against.

I'm confused, are you concerned with the seatbelt anchorage itself. Or the lack of super-structure to stop the rear facing seats going forward in a front-on collision

 

[Mikecarruthers]

I don't really quite get what you want them to do. Are you hoping for them to fit a metal frame do you have the payload?. Or a refund of what you paid less an allowance for use for 5 years it won't go a long way towards a new one.

This vehicle is 3 years old the safety of people inside the vehicle should not be about payload it should be about preserving life this is why I am raising this issue the motorhome manufacturer has a duty of care when building I want them to act on that I am not allowed to make my own frame as then the responsibility falls on me so I want them to re look at it if they wont if you purchased a car and the seat belts that secure your children and family are not of good quality what would you do

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