Hymer lesuire batterie

[69473]

Hi hoping someone with more knowledge than me can explain what I have and if it's suitable for off grid camping.
I recently purchased a Hymer Grand Canyon S fitted with two 95 amp hr leisure batteries with the following Schaudt equipment.
Charger LAS 1218 S
Electroblock EBL 30
Booster WA121545
All instruction are in German, so not sure exactly what they do?
Plus 200 watt solar panels.
Only used the van once so far off grid and after three days batteries were reading 25 % on the control panel.
Admittedly solar input was minimal as it
rained solidly and we ran the diesel heating for long periods, the van also has a compressor fridge.
Am I expecting to much of this set up and if so any suggestions to extend battery use before resorting to electric hook up.

 

[Boringfrog]

I would say yes, you're expecting too much, especially when solar is minimal at this time of year.

 

[Boringfrog]

If the van/batteries are relatively new, you could ad another 95Ah battery.

 

[Googlebot]

I am surprised you lasted that long.

Solar panels are great but November to March, pretty rubbish in the UK. In fact, I installed a shunt at the start of the year and I have been surprised just how rubbish they are in winter.

 

[Boringfrog]

Link to English instructions for Booster.
Here

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Lenny HB]

The EBL 30 is the charger and 12v distribution.
LAS 1218S is an auxiliary 18 amp mains charged, increasing the mains charger capacity to 36 amps.
The WA121545 is a battery to battery charger which charges the leisure battery from the smart alternator when driving.
All those units are made by Schaudt if you email them they will send you English instructions.

200 Watts of solar at this time of year won't do much more than keep the batteries topped up when you are not using any power in the van.
The fitted batteries will be AGM pretty useless for leisure use you might want to consider changing them. Gels would be better but ideally lithium but they come at a high cost you will be looking at one to two grand.

 

[69473]

Is it possible to mix batteries?
Would I be able to replace one of the AGM's and fit a 95 amp hr lithium and if so how much extra life is that likely to achieve?

 

[Googlebot]

You can’t mix them. The charging regimes are different and so are the discharge characteristics.

With lithium you can use most of the battery capacity. AGM are usually good for 50%, lithium can go down to 90% happily. You would double your capacity swapping for lithium in simple terms but they aren’t cheap and normally require a B2B charger and different mains charger. Budget 1.5k at least.

 

[Coolcats]

As others have said what you are describing is the limitation of the leisure batteries particularly this time of year. Have a look around the Schaudt web site they do have English downloads. https://www.schaudt.gmbh/de/service-support/downloads.php

good luck with what ever solution you choose.

 

[flatpackchicken]

Running your batteries down this much may damage them as you should not discharge batteries less than 50% as it damages the plates inside, so your batteries may be knackered to start with !!!!! Also your diesel Heater takes a lot out of the batteries on start up and shut down (not whilst running)
I suggest you go on ehu fir about 24hrs to recharge but also to condition your batteries with the on board charger. Then see how your batteries last!!!!!! Although remember you only really have 95a to work with as you got two 95a batteries and together give 190a of power but that is if you run batteries flat which fir normal wet acid batteries is not good, so you should only run to 50% which is 95a. Once your batteries are back up to full charge, and when using them, start up your engine when down to 50% and help recharge them. Also one other point, as the diesel heater takes a lot of power on start up, if possible start engine immediately before turning heater on for about 3 mins, then this will seriously help your discharge of batteries as you will be putting power in instead of taking out. If you use a lot of power, you may want to consider buying multiples of 6v Trojan batteries, although about 3” higher and heavier, you can run these completely flat without damage as that’s what they are designed to do, so you get 100% power from them. A typical 6v Trojan is about 225a but you need to link two together to get 12v and the 225a of power. I have 4 x 6v Trojan batteries giving me a usable amount of 450amps before exhausted, and cost about £600 area but should last in the region of about 10years só well worth the outlay.
I have 300w of solar and have never run out of power yet in 2 years and I live in Mh fir 6 months at a time, admittedly in the sunshine but with all your different charging items you should never run out of power.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Lenny HB]

Is it possible to mix batteries?
Would I be able to replace one of the AGM's and fit a 95 amp hr lithium and if so how much extra life is that likely to achieve?

If you order the Hymer lithium set up they do mix them they use the lithium to charge the AGM its a complicated system. I wouldn't want to do it I can't see the point of keeping a rubbish AGM in the system better just to use lithium.

 

[Pausim]

An expensive alternative to solar is an Efoy fuel cell. Solar produces little power in winter or if parked in the shade. Fuel cells work whenever needed. Compressor fridges and diesel heating swallow more battery power than the lpg alternatives.

 

[Coolcats]

An expensive alternative to solar is an Efoy fuel cell. Solar produces little power in winter or if parked in the shade. Fuel cells work whenever needed. Compressor fridges and diesel heating swallow more battery power than the lpg alternatives.

That’s a rather neat solution had not seen Efoy before

 

[Pausim]

That’s a rather neat solution had not seen Efoy before

Neat but not cheap, need to allow for fuel cost as well as initial purchase price. I find it worthwhile despite the expense. These people are the main UK agent and are very helpful if you want advice about Efoy.

Fuel Cell Systems

www.fuelcellsystems.co.uk

 

[paddymcc]

Your B2B (battery to battery charger, booster on your list) has a max 45A output from the engine alternator. So this will recharge your 90Ah batteries from 50% in 2hrs plus with the engine on. Your should take the van for a drive tho rather than just run it at idle on site to avoid damaging the engine.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[69473]

Thanks for all your replies, very informative.
Coming from a VW camper our usage of the one onboard battery was never an issue, now in a bigger van demands are greater with various teenage gadgets to charge etc and the fact we now wish to camp thoughout the year.
Didn't realise, naive I know that solar would be so bad in the winter and that a manufacturer such as Hymer would fit such a poor battery!
Fuel cell looks interesting, as winter touring is restricted this year I will see how the batteries perform over the summer and look at replacing for next winter.
A system that would allow me to off grid for a week at a time with no battery worries would be fine.
Thanks for the tip of running the engine for a few minutes when first turning on diesel heating , every little bit helps.
Stay safe and thank you.

 

[Lenny HB]

A system that would allow me to off grid for a week at a time with no battery worries would be fine.

Mid summer you will probably be OK with your current set up.
Mid winter you will need 400-600 watts of solar and 400a/h of batteries less if Lithium.

Thanks for the tip of running the engine for a few minutes when first turning on diesel heating , every little bit helps.

That is the last thing you want to do unless you like to your engine.
Modern diesels should never be run on tick over as they never reach operating temperature, it causes bore glazing and wrecks the DPF & CAT. You should always drive off immediately after starting.

 

[69473]

Does idling the engine cause so much damage with modern fully synthetic oils.
The new VW Grand California has a fast charge facility, which raises the engine idle speed slightly to charge from the main alternator.

 

[Lenny HB]

Does idling the engine cause so much damage with modern fully synthetic oils.
The new VW Grand California has a fast charge facility, which raises the engine idle speed slightly to charge from the main alternator.

Yes it does if you run the engine for half an hour the temperature gauge will not have moved off the end stop.
You should always drive off directly after starting, once under load they get up to operating temperature quickly. Also with a cold engine you get cold gases and some unburnt fuel in the CAT & DPF which wrecks them and they aren't cheap. There is a Funster who used to run his engine to charge the battery he stopped after it cost him over 2 grand in engine repairs.

If you want to charge your battery from an idling engine go for a 10-15 mile drive first then with the engine fully up to temperature then it is safe to let it idle.

 

[Sundowners]

Efoy is ok but the charge rate would probably not keep up with your compressor fridge and "teenagers toys" in the winter!! --- as you have battery to battery fitted i think you would be better using that‐---- or get a 1kva honda genny if you cant go for a drive------ your onboard charger would recharge quite fast from EHU( genny)
Just my opinion--- never had a b to b --- but always carried a little honda!!!!------- we also used to have efoy-- took that out and sold it!!!

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Pausim]

Efoy is ok but the charge rate would probably not keep up with your compressor fridge and "teenagers toys" in the winter!! --- as you have battery to battery fitted i think you would be better using that‐---- or get a 1kva honda genny if you cant go for a drive------ your onboard charger would recharge quite fast from EHU( genny)
Just my opinion--- never had a b to b --- but always carried a little honda!!!!------- we also used to have efoy-- took that out and sold it!!!

The Efoy 140 can produce 140Ah per day and the 210 model 210Ah per day. That should be plenty for most users, even with a compressor fridge. Not cheap, it depends on your priorities.

 

[Pausim]

Fuel Cell Systems are doing a 10% Black Friday discount on Efoys.

 

[Coolcats]

Neat but not cheap, need to allow for fuel cost as well as initial purchase price. I find it worthwhile despite the expense. These people are the main UK agent and are very helpful if you want advice about Efoy.

Fuel Cell Systems

www.fuelcellsystems.co.uk

Your right they are not cheap but if there is a need its a neat solution and will keep it in mind if I decide to off grid for an extended time. Thanks for posting

 

[Swozer]

Hi Wondering Star. We have Hymer Yellowstone. Started off with one 95 AGM, then went to two, but distinctly unimpressed with benefit. The compressor fridge and fan for heating drink amp hours. We ended up quickly getting one lithium and solar and are much happier. I don't think two lithium will fit under the driver's seat. Can now go off-grid for a few days if the sun shines.

 

[Sundowners]

The Efoy 140 can produce 140Ah per day and the 210 model 210Ah per day. That should be plenty for most users, even with a compressor fridge. Not cheap, it depends on your priorities.

How much methanol would it burn to produce 140a?
You would need to carry alot of fuel to rely on that amount of power.
The charging unit has a very limited life span which you would also need to condider in the running costs.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Pausim]

How much methanol would it burn to produce 140a?
You would need to carry alot of fuel to rely on that amount of power.
The charging unit has a very limited life span which you would also need to condider in the running costs.

I use about 0.5l litres per day for the 40Ah I use which at £5 per litre is a lot less than the the cost of an ehu. If you needed 140Ah then it would add up to a couple of litres per day but I doubt even a compressor fridge uses that much. The fuel consumption is 0.9 litres per KWh. On a technicality the Efoy burns no fuel at all but it does consume some, I know I am being over the top mentioning the distinction.

After about 5.000 hours there could be some expensive servicing to pay for. I have never argued that it is a cheap option.

 

[69473]

Re engine damage when idling engine from cold .
A vehicle I considered before buying the Hymer was a VW Grand California, this vehicle has fast charge and I asked a question on the VW forum on how it works.
An owner confirmed that after spending 48 hrs in his van his battery level fell from 90% to 40%, the engine was started and fast charge engaged. This caused the engine revs to rise by 300/500revs and within 20 minutes the charge level has risen to 90%.
As he said a game changer when wild camping.

 

[Eggs]

Re engine damage when idling engine from cold .
A vehicle I considered before buying the Hymer was a VW Grand California, this vehicle has fast charge and I asked a question on the VW forum on how it works.
An owner confirmed that after spending 48 hrs in his van his battery level fell from 90% to 40%, the engine was started and fast charge engaged. This caused the engine revs to rise by 300/500revs and within 20 minutes the charge level has risen to 90%.
As he said a game changer when wild camping.

If you are going to run an engine get a generator.

 

[Lenny HB]

Re engine damage when idling engine from cold .
A vehicle I considered before buying the Hymer was a VW Grand California, this vehicle has fast charge and I asked a question on the VW forum on how it works.
An owner confirmed that after spending 48 hrs in his van his battery level fell from 90% to 40%, the engine was started and fast charge engaged. This caused the engine revs to rise by 300/500revs and within 20 minutes the charge level has risen to 90%.
As he said a game changer when wild camping.

But did the engine get up to full operating temperature?
If not its really not worth the risk a new Merc engine is around 10 grand add a couple of grand for a DPF & Cat.

 

[mitzimad]

running an efoy means another fuel to carry .A suitcase gennie running on gas always seems a better option and cheaper

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}