How difficult is to add a Lithium battery?

[Hoovie]

Why pay 500 or so for something I didnt need. Never ran out of power in 4 years and never used a mains charger.

As I said, each to their own.

 

[autorouter]

That is how it is designed. if you want more info, I suppose speak to Schaudt/Lippert?

I am guessing you think the EBL just contains a relay that flips with a D+ signal? It has a, albeit pretty basic, B2B charger internally

The EBL on my Hymer (EBL 101) doesn't have a B2B internally. There is a straight metallic connection between the Starter battery power input and the Leisure battery main input, which are connected by the split charge relay. Nothing else, not even a fuse. Most other EBLs have a similar arrangement, except for the very early models from the 90s

There is a pretty basic trickle-charger circuit that adjusts the voltage from an internal node in the EBL to make it suitable for trickle-charging the starter battery. The internal node connects to the mains charger output, solar input, auxiliary charger input and no doubt other things, and then on to the shunt to the leisure battery. The internal node is connected to this basic trickle-charger by a special mains relay, so the trickle charge can only be active when there is a hookup supply.

The only 18A limit I know of is the 18A output of the internal mains charger.

 

[AdrianChen]

Nope informed decision, all scared mongering IMHO. But based on the van I had and equipment fitted and talking to the battery maker.

So you did your due diligence, but as an extreme example, I have a 450AH Lithium bank with a 50mm² feed - if my alternator is say 150amps output, and the vans systems draw a fair bit with wipers stereo headlights fan/ac going, then It will stress the alternator somewhat, I dont know if that means a lifespan of 60mins or 6 years but I'd sooner it wasn't the former.

The same system with a 10mm² cable, will stress the cable somewhat, the outcome may be a fire, or a warm cable, I'd sooner is wasn't the former.

A 100AH battery, with a 180amp alternator with 16mm² cable might well work for as long as I need.

So I don't think it is scaremongering, I think it is about making considered decisions with all the facts, and would never advise anyone just to plonk in a lithium battery without doing the due diligence.

 

[MichaelT]

So you did your due diligence, but as an extreme example, I have a 450AH Lithium bank with a 50mm² feed - if my alternator is say 150amps output, and the vans systems draw a fair bit with wipers stereo headlights fan/ac going, then It will stress the alternator somewhat, I dont know if that means a lifespan of 60mins or 6 years but I'd sooner it wasn't the former.

The same system with a 10mm² cable, will stress the cable somewhat, the outcome may be a fire, or a warm cable, I'd sooner is wasn't the former.

A 100AH battery, with a 180amp alternator with 16mm² cable might well work for as long as I need.

So I don't think it is scaremongering, I think it is about making considered decisions with all the facts, and would never advise anyone just to plonk in a lithium battery without doing the due diligence.

Which is what i did and it worked perfectly thank you.

 

[AdrianChen]

Why pay 500 or so for something I didnt need. Never ran out of power in 4 years and never used a mains charger.

I would prefer not to spend the money as well! We are fairly heavy electrical power users, the 450AH batteries were expensive back then, so having a good charging regime, safe wiring because I can be sure of the current draw and supply from the b2b and being sure not to cause early failures of our alternator or drive belt seemed worth it.

I have had systems in the past that appeared to work, until an expensive AGM bank died in 2 years, and a pair of very expensive Lithium batteries (2018) went duff after 18months despite being part of the manufacturers approved system installed to their specification. So I am now cautious!

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[JHuwJ]

Its not hard Dethleffs are doing the same as Hymer and utilising the BOS LE 300 in this link

https://wissensdatenbank.dethleffs.de/hc/en-gb/articles/16412307125917-Dethleffs-Smart-Battery-System

it means you keep a GEL and add lithium its a straight add in no mess no fuss, not the cheapest but then again your dont have to change anything else so probably works out similar

Alternately add the BOS S which can be used in either Hybrid (with a GEL) or stand alone again nothing to change

Thank you. I was looking through the Dethleffs configurator and saw these battery options. However they seemed a very expensive option compared to adding a lithium battery. I did not have access to the information you provided above and was not aware of the detail it contains. The 2 block version at £750 does not seem quite so expensive when you consider the additional equipment and installation costs for a normal lithium battery. The 5 block version is expensive and its capacity is probably what I would like to get. Adding one of the packs would I assume, only provide 12v in the van.

I must admit, having read through all the posts, I’m now thinking of the option of getting a power pack from Bluetti, EcoFlow or Jackery and a portable solar panel that I can put on the roof when recharging. That way I can use my 240v kettle, coffee maker, fan etc without having to add any further electronics or wiring while being off grid and top it up on a campsite now and again.

Before I make a final decision, I need to pick up the van, get it on a weigh bridge with everything we will take on our trips and work out the remaining capacity.

 

[Hoovie]

The EBL on my Hymer (EBL 101) doesn't have a B2B internally. There is a straight metallic connection between the Starter battery power input and the Leisure battery main input, which are connected by the split charge relay. Nothing else, not even a fuse. Most other EBLs have a similar arrangement, except for the very early models from the 90s

There is a pretty basic trickle-charger circuit that adjusts the voltage from an internal node in the EBL to make it suitable for trickle-charging the starter battery. The internal node connects to the mains charger output, solar input, auxiliary charger input and no doubt other things, and then on to the shunt to the leisure battery. The internal node is connected to this basic trickle-charger by a special mains relay, so the trickle charge can only be active when there is a hookup supply.

The only 18A limit I know of is the 18A output of the internal mains charger.

Interesting. I was sure there was some kind of actual charger there.
I have an EBL 119 hanging around my workshop which I took out a Globecar (replaced it entirely with a a custom fuse and relay board) and will have a look at the charging output of that to see what goes on
I knew the EBLs tended to overpriced PDUs but I thought at least you got some kind of controlled charging included in the money!

 

[Helen Ariel]

I recently helped Paul Helen Ariel fit a Lithium to their Dethleffs, we replaced the battery with a 230Ah Fogstasr under seat Lithium, fitted a Victron Orion XS B2B & Victron Smart Solar controller and a Victron inverter (inverter not under a seat). Left the EBL mains charger as they rarely ever use mains.
Although you can get AGM & Lithium to work together I would keep it simple and just replace the AGM.

Best upgrade ever