Handbrake problems

Xabia

Xabia

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Since 1996
I have a Hymer based on a 2007 Fiat/Alko chassis. At MOT time last year it only just scraped through on the handbrake efficiency so on my son's recommendation I used a mobile mechanic to adjust the brakes before this year's test. I watched as he removed the disc to reveal the shoes in the 'top hat' drum, the shoes were fine so he went under the van and adjusted the cable from the adjusters there, then adjusted the shoes. According to the MOT results today one side 16% efficient, the other 13% so it failed.

As the shoes are fine, adjusted as far as is possible can the fault like with the cable itself stretching?

Anyone else had the same problem?
 
I seem to recall in the dim and distance past that cables can stretch so after 10 years' use it could be a possibility.
 
The cables do stretch .also don't forget the shoes may look fine but maybe glazed which will render them almost useless. Did the mechanic rough them up a little to remove any glazing when he removed the drums ??
 
Khizzie said:
The cables do stretch .also don't forget the shoes may look fine but maybe glazed which will render them almost useless. Did the mechanic rough them up a little to remove any glazing when he removed the drums ??
Click to expand...
Yes, he came with new shoes but said they weren't necessary as the originals were fine, he did roughen them up so cable stretch is the only thing I can put it down to.
 
If you go under the van, you will see the cable going all the way from the front to the rear..
AT the rear it usually is split into two cables, one going to each wheel.
Just before that point, there should be an adjuster. Undo the locknut on the cable adjuster and tighten the adjuster until MOST of the slack in the cable has gone. Then re-tighten the locknut.
I had to do that to my Fiat Autotrail and its only 3 years old..
Just check that your handbrake free travel still has 5 or 6 clicks to ON and that the wheels are not binding..
OR, take it into a garage and ask them to do it if you feel unsure..
But it is a straightforward job...
Good luck.
Mitch.
 
I believe that you should adjust the brake shoes first, then adjust the cable. Not the other way round.
The shoes can be adjusted by jacking tbe van and removing just one wheel bolt. A small screwdriver thro hole will allow adjustment.
It is best to have both rear wheel jacked at same time to ensure balance when finished.
 
Xabia said:
Yes, he came with new shoes but said they weren't necessary as the originals were fine, he did roughen them up so cable stretch is the only thing I can put it down to.
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If memory serves, there is an adjuster inside the drum that needs tweaking in addition to the cable tensioner.
 
Don't forget to adjust the slack with the handbrake.off and of course make sure its in gear don't want a squashed head . Lol

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SandraL said:
I believe that you should adjust the brake shoes first, then adjust the cable. Not the other way round.
The shoes can be adjusted by jacking tbe van and removing just one wheel bolt. A small screwdriver thro hole will allow adjustment.
It is best to have both rear wheel jacked at same time to ensure balance when finished.
Click to expand...
The mechanic did follow the recommended method of adjustment but clearly there is something wrong somewhere along the line. Now booked in at Fiat Professional (Brownhills) so I will post the conclusion when known.
 
Rough the shoes up then rough up the inside of the drum. Refit & adjust .Then adjust cables starting with the adjuster before where the front cable splits to the two rears. then adjust the one on the actual handbrake where it attaches.
If there is still too much slack & cables have stretched at the rear then slacken off the adjuster in front of the rear split & pack out with slotted tube/nuts with slots cut in then readjust. Or fit new cables,if yu can get them. Another point worth mentioning is that all this should be done before taking for a test & with time to allow them to bed in. Otherwise there is a good chance of a fail.
 
I just had my handbrake cable replaced after trying everything else. Once the old one was off we could see it was corroded close to the point of failure under the sheath. The handbrake is brilliant now....
 
I had a Volvo XC90 which often failed on the parking brake which was the same system. To pass the test in the last two years that I had it the MOT mechanic used to take it for a few minutes run and by applying the brake while moving he got the efficiency up so that it just passed.
 
I still suspect knackered shoes ..they do get hard and ineffective over time .. In nine years I have had two sets of rear shoes and two sets of front discs and expect to do the same next year. It needs to be remembered that the discs / Shoes were designed to be used on a 35cwt van which was loaded only occasionally to say 3 Ton. . Motorhomes are usually running at max weight most of the time so brake pads etc need to be replaced often because they deteriorate fairly quickly under those conditions.

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For anyone in s similar situation the brake adjustment procedure is set out here:

Obviously doesn't like the copy/paste from the 'other' forum - I'll see if I can find it elsewhere.
 
Unless you have driven with the H/brake on, there will be next to NO wear on the shoes.
Whereas the cable is in the ON position under tension for a LOT of its life and does stretch.
But do as you see best and take the advise that suits your needs.
Good luck.
Mitch.
 
Xabia said:
The mechanic did follow the recommended method of adjustment but clearly there is something wrong somewhere along the line. Now booked in at Fiat Professional (Brownhills) so I will post the conclusion when known.
Click to expand...
Are Brownhills definitely classed as a Fiat authorised service centre?
 
well they have a very large banner attached to the fence saying that they are and a Fiat Professional sign over the service centre so if they aren't they are in breach of all sorts of regulations. Seem to have a much better reputation now - I'll find out next week!
 
Copied from Brownhills website:

Servicing & Repairs
Brownhills’ 25-bay service centre can deal with all your motorhome servicing and repair requirements. Our habitation technicians are motorhome industry trained and qualified in line with our Approved Workshop status, a scheme backed by our industry body The National Caravan Council, The Caravan Club and the Camping and Caravanning Club. Our mechanical technicians are Fiat trained and qualified per our Fiat Professional dealer status.

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jenny and mitch said:
Unless you have driven with the H/brake on, there will be next to NO wear on the shoes.
Whereas the cable is in the ON position under tension for a LOT of its life and does stretch.
But do as you see best and take the advise that suits your needs.
Good luck.
Mitch.
Click to expand...
How do you work that out that there will be next to no wear if Tha handbrake is not used much. .. How does the back brakes work on normal useage from the footbrake surely they must wear every time you brake. !!!!!!.
 
Do you have the Comfortmatic transmission with hill start? If you do you will only ever use the handbrake as a parking brake and as a result the shoes lose efficiency. The trick I was told by a mechanic - after cleaning mine out after it nearly failed its first MOT because of a poor handbrake - is every now and again apply the handbrake gently while driving along. Not so hard you bring the vehicle to a halt :) but just enough to clean off any glazing on the shoes.
The root of the problem is the handbrake system is a poor design but it is what it is so you have to keep it in good condition.
 
Khizzie said:
How do you work that out that there will be next to no wear if Tha handbrake is not used much. .. How does the back brakes work on normal useage from the footbrake surely they must wear every time you brake. !!!!!!.
Click to expand...

I guess it is a reference to Fiat using a 'TopHat' disc/drum combination. Disc as road brake and drum for parking brake.
 
Khizzie said:
How do you work that out that there will be next to no wear if Tha handbrake is not used much. .. How does the back brakes work on normal useage from the footbrake surely they must wear every time you brake. !!!!!!.[/QUOTE)

Handbrake uses dedicated shoes, footbrake uses the rear discs
Click to expand...

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Warning - after the OP gets his handbrake adjusted, take it for at least a 10 mile test drive and check the temperature at the rear wheel bolts are not hot to the touch.

I had my handbrake adjusted at a so called Fiat professional and on the way to the ferry the brake shoes nearly caught fire. The smell was horrendous. I nearly burnt my finger when doing the temperature test on the rear wheels.
 
Khizzie said:
I still suspect knackered shoes ..they do get hard and ineffective over time .. In nine years I have had two sets of rear shoes and two sets of front discs and expect to do the same next year. It needs to be remembered that the discs / Shoes were designed to be used on a 35cwt van which was loaded only occasionally to say 3 Ton. . Motorhomes are usually running at max weight most of the time so brake pads etc need to be replaced often because they deteriorate fairly quickly under those conditions.
Click to expand...
Although one assumes the handbrake would only be applied once the vehicle is stationery. They shouldn't wear at all.
 
What you need is a short piece of scaffold pipe over the handle for more effort.. Honestly yo might find the cable is no free enough, most older bikers know that the dry worn cables are a pain for clutch and front brake. lubrication works wonders or nowadays they are nylon lined and that just goes hard.
 
I had a bit of a nightmare with my handbrake, but it's all sorted now. The problem really was just adjustment - garages weren't following the Fiat instructions properly, as the rear adjuster was above the waste water tank and was inaccessible without taking the tank off. So they were adjusting at the drums and adjusting at the front adjuster but that wasn't right.

Yes cables will stretch but the adjusters are there to compensate for that, I really doubt that is your problem. Handbrake shoes are highly unlikely to be worn or glazed - they only come on when the van is stationary after all, unless they've been seized on at some point (not unknown). Possible that the mechanism and/or cable is partially seized.

As for mine - it ended up as "if you want a job doing, do it yourself." Accurate adjustment at the drums with a torch and long screwdriver through the bolt hole, waste tank taken down to do the rear adjuster, then do the front adjuster - and all was well, one vastly improved handbrake.

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