Got air in my pipes...

[jumar]

I've read past topics and also received sound advice from a fellow funster but....I cannot cure the problem..
My cold outlet holds pressure but my hot one needed constant bleeding...it maintains a good flow once air has been purged....the van..Hymer Tramp 2006..Truma boiler, submersible pump...problem exists on all taps but kitchen is the biggest problem...
A non return valve was suggested...but where would I find this..?

 

[daveandsan]

Not sure but I would think a non return valve would be close to the pump.
I’m sure someone will be along soon who actually knows what they are talking about.

 

[RobbyMClark]

Wrong air
Wrong pipes

 

[dalspa]

Some years ago I fitted a non return valve immediately above the submerisible pump as I was often having to bleed the air out. The submersible pump (Reich twin) fitted in our 2007 Hymer has a non return valve built into it but possibly wasn’t seating properly thereby letting water flow back after use. No more problems after fitting the new valve. I removed a short length of the tube so that with the valve fitted the pump sat in the same position on the bottom of the tank. Make sure that if fitting a non return valve that it is the right way round, there will be an arrow on the side indicating the flow direction. Two jubilee clips will be required.

 

[jumar]

Some years ago I fitted a non return valve immediately above the submerisible pump as I was often having to bleed the air out. The submersible pump (Reich twin) fitted in our 2007 Hymer has a non return valve built into it but possibly wasn’t seating properly thereby letting water flow back after use. No more problems after fitting the new valve. I removed a short length of the tube so that with the valve fitted the pump sat in the same position on the bottom of the tank. Make sure that if fitting a non return valve that it is the right way round, there will be an arrow on the side indicating the flow direction. Two jubilee clips will be required.

That must be it....similar year Hymer, same pump, same problem...a Big Thanks to you, this confirms what Robert Clark had told me while we were in France earlier...however finding a non return valve in the system was causing a headache.... didn't expect it to be built into the pump....will get a valve and fit it as per your instructions...

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[jongood]

That must be it....similar year Hymer, same pump, same problem...a Big Thanks to you, this confirms what Robert Clark had told me while we were in France earlier...however finding a non return valve in the system was causing a headache.... didn't expect it to be built into the pump....will get a valve and fit it as per your instructions...

I did the same to our first Arto, that had the dangle in the tank type pump, the non return valve and a couple of jubilee clips from the local caravan place. It doesnt really matter where it goes on the pipe as long as the pipe is good so higher its better if you can get the clips out of the water and once you ve primed it the first time it should hold.

 

[walburga]

Had a similar problem with my 04 reg Hymer 614...could hear the water trickling back into the fresh water tank...turned out to be a loose connection just above the submersible pump....can't remember if it was a non return valve, it was approx 10 years ago. Hope you find it..

regards
Allen

 

[Landy Andy]

Why would this only happen with the hot?

The pump, and the pipe you are talking about installing a one way valve in provides water for both.

 

[Landy Andy]

To answer my own question, it could be possible that the boiler has a vent on it to allow it to drain when the frost valve opens otherwise it wouldn’t be able to drain. In the same way a failed or not fitted non return valve wouldn’t matter if it was a sealed system as if the taps were closed the water couldn’t run back to the tank.

Don‘t know just thoughts.

 

[BouncyBoatFolk]

Shown in the photo on the left is the non return valve. The multi component photo is the only one I have, and because a dealer insisted he had sent me the correct pump, even after showing him the photo of the pumps side by side, the top spigot on the one sent isn't long enough to accept the NRV. Make sure you fit it the right way up as well or it won't work.
Check the stiff plastic feed pipe to the cap assembly is a tight fit. As said though, this fault should affect both supplies equally as it's a common feed, but possibly because the hot supply has to go round the boiler circuit first, it makes the fault known quicker? Only a guess though.

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[Minxy]

Why would this only happen with the hot?

The pump, and the pipe you are talking about installing a one way valve in provides water for both.

Exactly what I was thinking reading this thread ... it would affect both hot and cold if it was the non-return valve.

I suspect there's still air in the system after filling and bleeding the taps the hot can give the impression that it's free of air as it runs fine for a while but we've found ourselves that sometimes it's not the case and can start to splutter again.

 

[Lenny HB]

The non return valve can either be one that is a push fit on top of the Reich pump or a seperate one in the pipe outside the tank, we have had both types on Hymers.
Also the pipe that connects the pumo to the tank outlet has a habit of working loose. On our current van it kept falling completely off.
No more problems since I got rid of the Reich submersible & fitted a Shureflo pump.

 

[Minxy]

I've read past topics and also received sound advice from a fellow funster but....I cannot cure the problem..
My cold outlet holds pressure but my hot one needed constant bleeding...it maintains a good flow once air has been purged....the van..Hymer Tramp 2006..Truma boiler, submersible pump...problem exists on all taps but kitchen is the biggest problem...
A non return valve was suggested...but where would I find this..?

This ties in with my comments above, you need to ensure all the air is out of it, I wonder if there is a kink/dip in the pipe from the boiler which causes it to hold the air which is eventually dislodged.

 

[Landy Andy]

Exactly what I was thinking reading this thread ... it would affect both hot and cold if it was the non-return valve.

I suspect there's still air in the system after filling and bleeding the taps, the hot can give the impression that it's free of air as it runs fine but we've found ourselves that sometimes it's not the case and can start to splutter again.

The boiler must have a vent on it, otherwise when the frost valve opens the water wouldn’t come out.
The same with the cold system, if all taps are shut, the water can not run back to the tank, as no air can enter the system to replace the water that is leaving.

 

[jumar]

The non return valve can either be one that is a push fit on top of the Reich pump or a seperate one in the pipe outside the tank, we have had both types on Hymers.
Also the pipe that connects the pumo to the tank outlet has a habit of working loose. On our current van it kept falling completely off.
No more problems since I got rid of the Reich submersible & fitted a Shureflo pump.

A likely route to take...

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[jumartoo]

I'm keeping that you experts will help Martin solve our problem.

He's happy to take a cold shower, but I'm not .

Thanks for all the help so far .

 

[dalspa]

Martin,
Took a couple of photos of top of my water tank and the removed pump showing the blue non return valve. I have to unscrew the small top hatch to be able to undo the top jubilee clip and then remove the pump via the large hatch. I always fully remove the pump assembly for the winter to enable draining down so I have cut the cable and fitted a terminal block to facilitate this.
I had meant to comment that it was strange to only have the problem with the hot water supply.
David.

 

[jumar]

Martin,
Took a couple of photos of top of my water tank and the removed pump showing the blue non return valve. I have to unscrew the small top hatch to be able to undo the top jubilee clip and then remove the pump via the large hatch. I always fully remove the pump assembly for the winter to enable draining down so I have cut the cable and fitted a terminal block to facilitate this.
I had meant to comment that it was strange to only have the problem with the hot water supply.
David.

Thanks David for your run down and photos, I taken out the pump from the tank, it looks like a non return valve is attached on top...unable to disconnect it just now....an earlier post referred to a valve on the boiler to enable air to enter when the Frost valve opens. I shall look into this also....The Plot Thickens...

 

[Minxy]

The boiler must have a vent on it, otherwise when the frost valve opens the water wouldn’t come out.
The same with the cold system, if all taps are shut, the water can not run back to the tank, as no air can enter the system to replace the water that is leaving.

Yes it does have a breather pipe with a NRV, example below - no. 12 is the elbow with the built in NRV.

Manual Truma Ultrastore Rapid GE (page 10 of 16) (English)

View and download the Manual of Truma Ultrastore Rapid GE Boiler (page 10 of 16) (English). Also support or get the manual by email.

www.libble.eu

 

[Landy Andy]

Yes it does have a breather pipe with a NRV, example below - no. 12 is the elbow with the built in NRV.

View attachment 546107 View attachment 546108

Manual Truma Ultrastore Rapid GE (page 10 of 16) (English)

View and download the Manual of Truma Ultrastore Rapid GE Boiler (page 10 of 16) (English). Also support or get the manual by email.

www.libble.eu

Good to know. I thought it must otherwise the safety system wouldn’t work. It also then explains why the OP only has a hot water/air problem.

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[jumar]

Yes it does have a breather pipe with a NRV, example below - no. 12 is the elbow with the built in NRV.

View attachment 546107 View attachment 546108

Manual Truma Ultrastore Rapid GE (page 10 of 16) (English)

View and download the Manual of Truma Ultrastore Rapid GE Boiler (page 10 of 16) (English). Also support or get the manual by email.

www.libble.eu

Looks like you guys are doing your homework...thanks...this is giving me the much needed assistance I am looking for...I searched all over what parts of the boiler I can access...I know where to concentrate my search now....great help....

 

[Lenny HB]

Yes it does have a breather pipe with a NRV, example below - no. 12 is the elbow with the built in NRV.

View attachment 546107 View attachment 546108

Manual Truma Ultrastore Rapid GE (page 10 of 16) (English)

View and download the Manual of Truma Ultrastore Rapid GE Boiler (page 10 of 16) (English). Also support or get the manual by email.

www.libble.eu

Normally when that valve fails the water just runs out of the pipe and it can empty your fresh tank.
If it is that valve a tempory fix is to clamp the clear pipe that goes under the van. Just fold it in half and put a cable tie round it.

 

[jumar]

Normally when that valve fails the water just runs out of the pipe and it can empty your fresh tank.
If it is that valve a tempory fix is to clamp the clear pipe that goes under the van. Just fold it in half and put a cable tie round it.

Good point...my van is 16 years old...there isn't many clear pipes....but I'm sure I'll find the one you are referring too.

 

[Landy Andy]

Looks like you guys are doing your homework...thanks...this is giving me the much needed assistance I am looking for...I searched all over what parts of the boiler I can access...I know where to concentrate my search now....great help....

I‘m sure you know, but, you don’t need to do anything to the boiler pipe work, you just need to install replacement one way valve after the pump. The valve on the boiler is just showing that the one way valve has failed, and the valve is doing its job

 

[jumar]

I‘m sure you know, but, you don’t need to do anything to the boiler pipe work, you just need to install replacement one way valve after the pump. The valve on the boiler is just showing that the one way valve has failed, and the valve is doing its job

Job done...finally managed to get a replacement pump with a non-return valve fixed on the outlet...as per the original.
An inline valve couldn't be found anywhere I have access too....glad it's now sorted...Thanks to all who assisted me in finding a solution to my problem..

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