Eberspacher Combitronic?

[gus-lopez]

Anyone have any idea what the water/glycol mix should be ? Or how to reset? get the air out?
Unit runs & heats lower pipes but not heat exchanger for water or any blown hot air?
Nothing whatsoever in any of the manuals. User manual doesn't even mention that there is a tank or even a level to check. It's no wonder 3 separate places have refused even to look at it. One firm in spain stated that they do not work on them as eberspacher require payment to instruct how to maintain & repair. I can understand why when they don't even mention to owners that there is a fluid level to ensure doesn't fall. Or any type of 'trouble shooting /fault guide'

 

[Podney]

No idea,but maybe now you are on the front page............

 

[TheBig1]

I thought the mixture is 50/50 with distilled water. Have you pressure flushed the system, then refilled and bled the air off?

 

[andy63]

Hi Gus.. I installed a combitronic into a self build.. The boiler was the hydronic diesel heater and i installed it as an engine plummed system rather than a stand alone one with the header tank.. But that involved changing the hydronic heater ecu.. Apparently the stand alone boiler and engine plummed heater have different temp settings...and it was run with whatever concentration antifreeze the engine used..
From memory the only facility to bleed the system was on the hydronic heater which had a vent screw on the pump casing.. Failing that it was just a case of breaking a joint and ensuring a good flow before sticking the pipe back together... Again I chose to hard plum with copper pipe between heater and the hot water tank and blown air unit rather than the supplied rubber hoses so was able to install the standard drain type valves you get on normal central heating systems.. They allowed me to flush the coolant through the pipework..which I caught in a container and reused..
Its expensive stuff now that antifreeze???
Not sure what sort of control panel you have in the combitronic system but I fitted the delux panel which allowed the use of 230v to be used for heating the water and blown air unit as well..
In the years I had the self build i thought it was a cracking system but came with an initial high cost..
Andy..

 

[gus-lopez]

I thought the mixture is 50/50 with distilled water. Have you pressure flushed the system, then refilled and bled the air off?

Thanks for the reply .Only had a cursory look at the moment but tank was empty. I'd already read that it had to be bled but couldn't find pump/bleed screw.

Hi Gus.. I installed a combitronic into a self build.. The boiler was the hydronic diesel heater and i installed it as an engine plummed system rather than a stand alone one with the header tank.. But that involved changing the hydronic heater ecu.. Apparently the stand alone boiler and engine plummed heater have different temp settings...and it was run with whatever concentration antifreeze the engine used..
From memory the only facility to bleed the system was on the hydronic heater which had a vent screw on the pump casing.. Failing that it was just a case of breaking a joint and ensuring a good flow before sticking the pipe back together... Again I chose to hard plum with copper pipe between heater and the hot water tank and blown air unit rather than the supplied rubber hoses so was able to install the standard drain type valves you get on normal central heating systems.. They allowed me to flush the coolant through the pipework..which I caught in a container and reused..
Its expensive stuff now that antifreeze???
Not sure what sort of control panel you have in the combitronic system but I fitted the delux panel which allowed the use of 230v to be used for heating the water and blown air unit as well..
In the years I had the self build i thought it was a cracking system but came with an initial high cost..
Andy..

Thanks I'd read that there was a bleed screw near pump I just have to locate the pump now.It was working ok for his first 3 weeks then stopped. Something is definitely heating water when plugged in but there is no circulation or hot air ? Or perhaps we aren'rt waiting long enough?
Yes it is the deluxe panel that is fitted. Out today so might have a look for pump/screww this afternoon &
thanks to all for the replies.

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[andy63]

Something is definitely heating water when plugged in but there is no circulation or hot air ? Or perhaps we aren'rt waiting long enough?

You shouldn't have to wait long.. The circulating water is heated fairly quickly by the hydronic heater.. Again from memory the fan on the heating heat exchanger won't kick in until the circulating water is about 30 degrees C
Good luck with it
Andy

 

[Carolyn and Kev]

Should be a couple of bleed points ..one at the pump and one near the calorifier and possibly on the rad panel itself. The antifreeze mix is 50/50 and it does not really matter if you use tap water. As long as the antifreeze mix is the right colour you should not need to flush either. If its grey or dark in colour then a flush will be required. The Ebo has a bleed point on it. You have to make sure all the air is out before it will run correctly. The unit.. when functioning properly ..will only push hot water around when it reaches a minimum operating temperature approx 25 to 30 degrees .This is fairly rapid but It needs to see the correct pressure in the system too be functional otherwise it shuts down.

Kev

 

[andy63]

.will only push hot water around when it reaches a minimum operating temperature approx 25 to 30 degrees .This is fairly rapid but It needs to see the correct pressure in the system too be functional otherwise it shuts down.

The water is circulated by the pump in the hydronic heater straight away..it doesn't have to wait till its heated or sees a pressure...... The hot air blower does have to see about a 30degree temp of the water before it starts up..
The pressure in the system isn't monitored.. It rises just as it does in an engine cooling system as the temp rises. The temperature is then monitored by the hydronic heater ecu which modulates or shuts down according to the temp of the circulating water.. A radiator style cap on the expansion vessel provides a safety valve so to speak as it does on an engine..
Andy.

 

[Carolyn and Kev]

The water is circulated by the pump in the hydronic heater straight away..it doesn't have to wait till its heated or sees a pressure...... The hot air blower does have to see about a 30degree temp of the water before it starts up..
The pressure in the system isn't monitored.. It rises just as it does in an engine cooling system as the temp rises. The temperature is then monitored by the hydronic heater ecu which modulates or shuts down according to the temp of the circulating water.. A radiator style cap on the expansion vessel provides a safety valve so to speak as it does on an engine..
Andy.

I think the rad pressure cap on the expansion tank is some think like 2 bar which is 29 psi give or take . If the rad cap is off, the pressure is pushed through the system and you get over flow from the tank . I am not saying that the system needs to see a 'locked' pressure but a 'system pressure' for a normal operation.
Think of it this way...if the heater is on and the water is free flowing with out a back pressure , ie a closed end or a pressure cap, the system would shut down because it would in effect over heat . It needs to see a pressure in order to sense temperature and thus regulate it..

See below:

www.butlertechnik.com › ... › Eberspacher Manuals › Air Heaters

Eberspacher Combitronic | Manuals, Error Codes & Guides

The minimum water flow rate is only guaranteed if the temperature difference of the heating medium does not exceed 10°C between water inlet and water outlet during heating. • Only overpressure valves with an opening pressure of min. 0.4 – max. 2 bar may be used in the coolant circuit. • The coolant liquid must contain at least 40% antifreeze all year round as corrosion protection antifreeze . • Before commissioning the heater or after changing the cooling liquid, bleed the whole coolant circuit including heater. A pressure test is necessary to enable full regulation of the coolant system and prevention of error codes and premature failure
( Shut dow) of the system.

Kev

 

[gus-lopez]

Thanks for all the replies .off to have a look.

s long as the antifreeze mix is the right colour you should not need to flush eith

We had no mixture. Tank was empty .

The hot air blower does have to see about a 30degree temp of the water before it starts up..

Fan is coming on instant you start it up from cold.

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[andy63]

. If the rad cap is off, the pressure is pushed through the system and you get over flow from the tank

Don't understand what you are saying..
If the expansion cap isn't fittet to the tank there is no build up of pressure..there can't be as you have a system open to atmospheric..
The pump built into the hydronic heater just circulates the primary system water.it doesn't create a pressure.. But if the cap isn't fitted there will be no pressure build up but a good chance the water will boil at atmospheric pressure..just like a car cooling system...
If you remove the pressure cap when hot you get scalded.. ..
The temperature that causes that build up of pressure is monitored by the ECU of the hydronic heater...and the boiler heat input is varied accordingly or shut down to prevent overheat and hence overpressure..
Andy..

 

[gus-lopez]

What we have found is we have no or intermittent circulation. On the odd occasion the pump runs we have found a slight leak at the top hose tee piece from heater matrix fitting. We have no hot water at any time as the pump doesn't appear to be working? The heater pipe in to the heat exchanger gets warm but that's it there is no flow.so unit cycles down on internal water temp as it thinks it is all up to temperature?
I found the bleed nut on top/back edge of heater unit underneath but without circulation you can't bleed air out.
Can I assume/guess that the pump is inside the cover where the bleed screw is?
Won't be looking at it until tomorrow pm at earliest as hoping to check with the agent in Taunton first thing as they might be able to help.

 

[Carolyn and Kev]

Don't understand what you are saying..
If the expansion cap isn't fittet to the tank there is no build up of pressure..there can't be as you have a system open to atmospheric..
The pump built into the hydronic heater just circulates the primary system water.it doesn't create a pressure.. But if the cap isn't fitted there will be no pressure build up but a good chance the water will boil at atmospheric pressure..just like a car cooling system...
If you remove the pressure cap when hot you get scalded.. ..
The temperature that causes that build up of pressure is monitored by the ECU of the hydronic heater...and the boiler heat input is varied accordingly or shut down to prevent overheat and hence overpressure..
Andy..

No the Hydronic needs to see a circuit. The cap off leads to a pressure drop not a rise which is required. The system requires a build up of pressure initially to work. The hyrdonic cannot work with out a controller. The controller will show error codes of various types if "open ended" circuit. Basically...not pressurised

Hope that helps?

Kev

 

[Carolyn and Kev]

Thanks for all the replies .off to have a look.
We had no mixture. Tank was empty .

Fan is coming on instant you start it up from cold.

What colour is the fluid in the pipework Gus? If its pink...stick with it and add to suit. Dont add blue antifreeze as it will fail. Very Basically the antifreeze drops to the bottom of the coolant and prevents flow thus causing overheating and or your controller to flash up fault/error codes .


Long and short of it is this...If you are fitting one from new with a controller, the system needs to be a "closed circuit" hence by pass valves etc built within the pump/motor need to feel a pressure to operate correctly.
The system needs a minimum of 40% of an anti freeze.
The system cannot function properly with out being bled of air.
If air is trapped in the Hydronic unit...it will over burn and shut down period.
To test the Eberspacher unit on a test bench ...it has to be set up to see the controller in a "closed circuit' set up.
The codes read from the controller in the form of either flashes of the controller light (Normally red) or in numerical form showing anything from current drawer to voltage loss to pressure regulation and and burn out high and low temperature etc etc..

Again...Long and short of it is...Bleed the system of any air from ALL of the system. Remove the pressure cap and check for bubbles when the system is running without the burn up being called for and pump running. Refit the pressure cap and fire up system and ask the hydronic unit to supply heat to water tank and rads this will run water throughout the system.
Check system after 15 mins top up with water antifreeze mix and fit cap.

System should provide heat and water heat within 15/20 mins

If there seems to be a delay ...the pump is showing signs of incorrect burn and the heat chamber is in need of a decoke. The heat chamber is required to be free from soot at all times to give a full burn and a proper heat exchange to the system

Kev

Kev

 

[gus-lopez]

What colour is the fluid in the pipework Gus?

It appeared ,what was remaining, to be green

thus causing overheating and or your controller to flash up fault/error codes .

There are no fault or error codes, nor is there any facility on the deluxe controller to show anything that we can find.

The system cannot function properly with out being bled of air.

It won't bleed as we do not appear to have a working circulation pump.Only intermittently.

The codes read from the controller in the form of either flashes of the controller light (Normally red) or in numerical form showing anything from current drawer to voltage loss to pressure regulation and and burn out high and low temperature etc etc..

Nothing whatsoever . just states day,date,time.

.Bleed the system of any air from ALL of the system.

As above ,appears to be no circulation

Remove the pressure cap and check for bubbles when the system is running without the burn up being called for and pump running.

No there is no movement that you can discern.

System should provide heat and water heat within 15/20 mins

No definitely not. Even when put on 230v for water heating there is nothing .

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[Carolyn and Kev]

Can you show a photo Gus of the Controller at all?

Kev

 

[Carolyn and Kev]

It appeared ,what was remaining, to be green

There are no fault or error codes, nor is there any facility on the deluxe controller to show anything that we can find.

It won't bleed as we do not appear to have a working circulation pump.Only intermittently.

Nothing whatsoever . just states day,date,time.
As above ,appears to be no circulation
No there is no movement that you can discern.
No definitely not. Even when put on 230v for water heating there is nothing .

Error codes for Eberspacher fault finding on all Controllers :

Home/Advice Centre //Eberspacher Fault Codes
Eberspacher Fault codes

Fault code Display	Fault description	Comments • Remedial action
000	No faults	-
004	Warning: Short circuit in control box, fresh air output	Disconnect connector S1 / B1 at the heater and at the connector B1, PIN 16 check the cable up to the fresh air fan relay for short circuit to negative, if ok –> replace control box.
005	Warning: Short circuit in control box, car alarm output	Disconnect connector S1 / B1 at the heater and at the connector B1, PIN 15 check the cable up to the relay isolating switch or the car alarm input for short circuit to negative, if ok –> replace control box,
009	ADR shutdown	ADR shutdown due to signal change from (+) to (–) at connector S1, PIN 13 (D+) or plus signal at connector S1, PIN 14 (HA+).
010	Overvoltage cutout	Overvoltage applied to control box for at least 20 seconds without interruption – heater not working. • Disconnect connector S1 / B1 at the heater, start the vehicle’s engine, measure the voltage at connector B1 between PIN 1 (cable 2.52 rt) and PIN 10 (cable 2.52 br). AIRTRONIC L 12 volt – voltage >16 volt —> check generator regulator. AIRTRONIC L 24 volt – voltage >32 volt —> check generator regulator.
011	Undervoltage cutout	Undervoltage applied to control box for at least 20 seconds without interruption – heater not working. • Disconnect connector S1 / B1 at the heater, the vehicle’s engine is switched off, measure the voltage at connector B1 between PIN 1 (cable 2.52 rt) and PIN 10 (cable 2.52 br). The measured value and the voltage at the battery should be the same. In case of a voltage drop, check the fuses, the supply cables, the negative connections and the positive support point on the battery for corrosion and correct contact.
012	Overheating at the overheating sensor (combination sensor)	Temperature of the overheating sensor too high. • Check hot air pipes for blockage –> remove blockage. • Sum of the component ratings of air-conducting parts is too large –> Check air system, if necessary re-lay – for component ratings, please refer to additional parts catalogue. • Check overheating sensor If ok –> measure fuel quantity.
013	Overheating at the flame sensor (combination sensor)	Flame sensor signals temperature at heat exchanger is too high. • Check hot air pipes for blockage –> remove blockage. • Sum of the component ratings of air-conducting parts is too large –> Check air system, if necessary re-lay – for component ratings, please refer to additional parts catalogue. • Check flame sensor, if ok –> check overheating sensor, if overheating sensor defective –> replace combination sensor, if overheating sensor ok –> measure
014	Temperature difference between flame sensor and overheating sensor too large	Temperature difference between flame sensor and overheating sensor too large • Check hot air pipes for blockage –> remove blockage. • Sum of the component ratings of air-conducting parts is too large –> Check air system, if necessary re-lay – for component ratings, please refer to additional parts catalogue. • Check flame sensor, if ok –> check overheating sensor, if overheating sensor defective –> replace combination sensor, if overheating sensor ok –> measure fuel quantity, if fuel quantity ok –> replace control box.
015	Operating lock-out	The fault code 015 is displayed, if the heater was switched back on after the fault code display 017. The hardware threshold value for the overheating sensor has been exceeded –> the control box is locked. • Switch off control box
017	Overheating	The hardware threshold value for the overheating sensor has been exceeded, because the control box failed to recognise the fault code 012 or 013 –> the control box is locked. If the heater is switched on again, the fault code 015 is displayed. • Switch off control box
020	Glow plug – interruption	• Check glow plug is working and for continuity. 12 volt heater – approx. 0.6 Ω ± 0.04 Ω (heat resistance) 24 volt heater – approx. 2 Ω ± 0.2 Ω (heat resistance) • If the values of the continuity test and functional test are ok –> check the glow plug’s lead harness for damage and continuity, if ok –> replace control box,
021	Glow plug output (–), overload or earth short circuit	• Check glow plug is working and for continuity. 12 volt heater – approx. 0.6 Ω ± 0.04 Ω (heat resistance) 24 volt heater – approx. 2 Ω ± 0.2 Ω (heat resistance) • If the values of the continuity test and functional test are ok –> check the glow plug’s lead harness for damage and continuity, if ok –> replace control box,
022	Glow plug, output (+), short circuit after UB (battery voltage)	• Check glow plug lead harness for correct laying and damage, if ok —> check lead harness for continuity, if ok —> replace control box,
025	Diagnostics cable bl/ws – short circuit – after UB (battery voltage)	This fault code cannot be displayed as the diagnostics cable is probably defective. • Check diagnostics cable for correct laying and possible damage..
030	EMK blower motor outside the permissible range	Impeller or combustion air blower motor blocked (frozen, soiled, sluggish, lead harness grinds against shaft end ...) • Remove blockage. • Check wiring for short circuit. • Speed measurement of the combustion air blower motor: – Dismantle combustion air fan, see page 31. – Heater 12 V: carry out test with 11.3 volt ±0.1 volt. – Heater 24 V: carry out test with 23.6 volt ±0.1 volt. Remove the connector from the control box and apply voltage. Apply marking (white paint) to the impeller and measure the speed using a non-contact r.p.m. counter: If the measured speed in the ”high“ heating level is outside the range – Heater 12 V: n = 4650–7000 rpm, – Heater 24 V: n = 4650–6500 rpm, then replace the combustion air fan, see page 31. If the measured speed is within the range, then replace the control box.
031	Blower motor interruption	• Check that the lead harness of the blower motor has been correctly laid and for damage, if ok –> remove lead harness at control box and check for continuity, if ok –> replace control box.
032	Blower motor – earth short circuit In the 12 volt heater, carry out the functional check with max 11.3 volt. In the 24 volt heater, carry out the functional check with max. 23.6 volt. The component is destroyed if the voltage values are exceeded. Ensure the power pack has adequate short-circuit resistance – min. 20 A.	• Carry out functional test on the blower motor, to do this remove the connector from the control box. Apply a voltage of 11.3 v or 23.6 V ±0.1 v to the blower motor and after 40 sec measure the current intensity. Heater 12 volt: current intensity < 9 A or heater 24 volt: current intensity < 4 A – blower motor ok –> replace control box, see page 28. Heater 12 volt: current intensity > 9 A or heater 24 volt: current intensity > 4 A –> replace combustion air fan. • Check wiring for short circuit.
034	Blower motor outlet (+), short circuit after UB (battery voltage)	• Check that the lead harness of the blower motor has been correctly laid and check for damage, if ok —> remove lead harness at control box and check for continuity, if ok —> replace control box.
047	Metering pump short circuit or overload	• Remove connector from the metering pump, if the fault code 048 (interruption) is displayed the metering pump is defective –> replace metering pump. • If the fault code 047 continues to be displayed, disconnect connector S1 / B1 at the heater, and at the connector B1, PIN 5 check the cable 12 gn / rt up to the metering pump for short circuit to negative (PIN 10), if ok –> replace control box.
048	Metering pump interruption	• Remove connector from the metering pump and measure the resistance value of the metering pump (12 V = 9,5 Ω ±0.5 Ω / 24 V = 36 Ω ±1.8 Ω), if resistance value ok –> reconnect cable loom to the metering pump. • Disconnect connector S1 / B1 at the heater and measure the resistance value between PIN 5 and PIN 10, if ok –> replace control box.
049	Metering pump outlet (+), short circuit after UB (battery voltage)	• Check that the lead harness of the metering pump has been correctly laid and check for damage, if ok —> remove lead harness and check for continuity, if ok —> replace control box.
050	Too many failed start attempts (operating lock-out)	The control box locks after too many failed start attempts (max. 255 start attempts). • Unlock the control box by deleting the fault memory using the EDiTH customer service program, diagnostic unit or various control units.
051	Flame detected when switching on	If, after being switched on, the resistance value of the flame sensor is 1274 Ω (> 70 °C) the heater’s fan rungs for approx. 15 min to cool down, if the resistance does not fall below the aforementioned value within 15 min the heater is switched off. • Check the flame sensor.
052	Safety time exceeded	No flame detected during the start phase. • Check exhaust and combustion air system. • Check fuel supply / measure fuel quantity, • Check spark plug (see fault code 020 and 021). • Check flame sensor, if ok –> replace control box.
053 054 055 056	Flame cutout in the „POWER“ control stage „HIGH“ control stage „MEDIUM“ control stage „LOW“ control stage	The heater has ignited (flame detected) and signals flame cutout during a power stage. • Check exhaust and combustion air system. • Check fuel supply / measure fuel quantity, see page 33. • Check flame sensor, for diagram and table of values please refer to page 30, if ok –> replace control box.
060	External room temperature sensor – interruption	• Disconnect the plug-in connection of the external room temperature sensor and measure the resistance value, see page 9 for diagram and values table, if temperature sensor ok –> reconnect plug-in connection. • Disconnect connector S1 / B1 at the heater and measure the resistance value in connector housing B1 between PIN 6 and PIN 12. If an interruption exists the ohmic value between PIN 6 and PIN 12 > 3000 Ω . If resistance value ok –> replace control box.
061	External room temperature sensor – short circuit	• Disconnect plug-in connection of the external room temperature sensor, if error code 060 is displayed –> check external room temperature sensor, see page 9 for diagram and values table. If external room temperature sensor ok –> check the connection cables 0.52 gr and 0.52 br/ws for short circuit, if ok –> reconnect plug-in connection. • Disconnect connector S1 / B1 at the heater and measure the resistance value in connector housing B1 between PIN 6 and PIN 12. If a short circuit exists the ohmic value between PIN 6 and PIN 12 < 800 Ω. If the error 061 continues to be displayed, –> replace control box.
062	Control unit – interruption	• Remove connector at the control unit and measure the resistance value of the setpoint potentiometer, for connector pins. If the resistance value is ok –> reconnect connector at the control unit. • Disconnect connector S1 / B1 at the heater and measure the resistance value between PIN 6 and PIN 7 in the connector housing B1, if resistance value is ok –> replace control box, Resistance value in case of interruption between PIN 6 and PIN 7 > 3000 Ω. Normal value: 1750 Ω ±30 Ω – 2180 Ω ±80 Ω.
063	Control unit – short circuit Fault recognition only works in heating mode. If, on the other hand, the short circuit has already occurred and then the heater is switched on, „Ventilation“ is active (not a fault code).	• If „Ventilate“ switch is installed, disconnect it and check it is working. If ok –> disconnect the connector at the control unit, if error code 062 is displayed, replace control unit. • If control unit ok –> check connection cables 0.52 gr / rt and 0.52 br / ws for short circuit, if ok –> reconnect connector at control unit. • Disconnect connector S1 / B1 at the heater, if the error 063 continues to be displayed –> replace control box. Resistance value in case of short circuit between PIN 6 and PIN 7 < 800 Ω. Normal values: 1750 Ω ±30 Ω – 2180 Ω ±80 Ω.
064	Flame sensor (combination sensor) – interruption	• Dismantle control box and disconnect green connector from control box. Check flame sensor, for diagram and table of values, if flame sensor ok –> replace control box. Resistance value in case of interruption > 3000 Ω.
065	Flame sensor (combination sensor) – short circuit	• Dismantle control box, remove green connector from control box, if error 064 is displayed –> replace combination sensor. If error 065 continues to be displayed –> replace control box, Resistance value in case of short circuit < 500 Ω,
071	Overheating sensor – interruption	• Dismantle control box, disconnect blue and green connectors from control box. Measure resistance value at the blue connector PIN 1 (cable 0.52 bl) and at the green connector PIN 2 (cable 0.52 br / ws), if ok –> replace control box, Resistance value in case of interruption >700 kΩ,
072	Overheating sensor – short circuit	• Dismantle control box, remove blue connector from control box, if error 071 is displayed –> replace combination sensor, see Page 27. If error 072 continues to be displayed –> replace control box. Resistance value in case of short circuit < 120 Ω,
074	Control box defective	• Overheating threshold value is not detected by control box —> replace control box.
090	Control box defective (internal fault)	Replace control box.
2	Control box defective (ROM error)	Replace control box.
093	Control box defective	Replace control box.
094	Control box defective (EEPROM error)	Replace control box.
095	Control box defective	Replace control box.
096	Internal temperature sensor defective	Replace control box or use external room temperature sensor.
097	Control box defective	Replace control box.
098	Control box defective	Replace control box.
099	Too many resets in sequence Transistor error in control box	• Voltage short-term < 5 – 6 volt (for 12 volt) or < 7 – 8 volt (for 24 volt). • In case of a voltage drop, check the fuses, the supply cables, the negative connections and the positive support point on the battery for corrosion and correct contact. • Test control box with testing device, if ok —> check lead harness of the external components has been correctly laid and check for damage, if ok —> check lead harness for continuity, if ok —> replace control box.

More information on Eberspacher Heating Systems

Sorry its long winded but it is what it is lol

kev

 

[andy63]

Yes it is the deluxe panel that is fitted.

The controller will show error codes of various types if "open ended" circuit.

kev I'm not talking about an open ended circuit.. I was talking about a circuit open to atmosphere .. That doesn't mean its open ended.. Of course the circuit is a closed loop of the flow and return...I mentioned the pressure cap in response to your comment below.. I dont agree that's what will happen..ie getting overflow from the tank if the pump is run and the cap isn't in place..?
The water will simply circulate if the pump is running and there are no air locks and if the hydronic is running the pressure won't rise in the system.. But it will still circulate..

If the rad cap is off, the pressure is pushed through the system and you get over flow from the tank

If Gus has a combitronic system similar to the one I installed then he will have the delux control panel which will be linked to a grey box or ecu via a data connector.. That box also accepts the harness from the hydronic heater and the mains supply..
From memory and I did contact the manufacturer about it at the time the delux panel is not capable of displaying any fault codes on its screen , that may be generated by the hydronic heater.. Certainly not without specialist diagnostic plug in equipment
I found that strange but that's what I was told..and in the years I ran that system never saw any..
And I still come back to this need for pressure sensing you talk about or been necessary for the system to work...
Where exactly in the system are the pressure sensors located..I've installed a system all be it a few years back and don't recall anything like that..
The pump may have a bypass i cant remember but the system relies on the pump creating a flow... The pressure rises because the water is heated..the whole system is subject to that pressure which is dependent on water temperature..I thought it was as simple as that..
Is it not.
As I said I did away with the combitronic supplied header tank and instead Plummer the hydronic heater into the engine..
It worked just fine and had the added advantage of an additional heat source... Ie engine when run..hydronic heater or 230v when hooked up..
Andy..

 

[gus-lopez]

Can you show a photo Gus of the Controller at all?

Kev

It is the "deluxe" controller shown in your link post #9 unless there is anything on the "engineers" spanner thing but as andy63 says nothing automatically shows on the panel whatever it does whether running or fault.
I'll have a look tomorrow.

 

[gus-lopez]

rom memory and I did contact the manufacturer about it at the time the delux panel is not capable of displaying any fault codes on its screen , that may be generated by the hydronic heater.. Certainly not without specialist diagnostic plug in equipment
I found that strange but that's what I was told..and in the years I ran that system never saw any..

Well Rang Hickley's yesterday & the lad was great help.
No as you stated no fault reports are available with a 'deluxe' panel. nor can you interrorgate it unless you have the lap top with the specialist diagnostic equipment-
The 'spanner' symbol does nothing on the deluxe panel.
You cannot run the pump on cold without boiler unless you have the engineers diag system.
The lad said that the only bleed valve is on pump & that any other air should exit via tank as pipework should be rising to tank which should really be the highest point.
So not a lot of use then when tank 'max' level is barely above calorifier/heat exchanger & the return pipework goes down through the floor before going up into the tank.

We did rectify all the leaks by replacing the tee piece & the 2 hoses.
I fabricated a pressurisation device to purge the air from the calorifier but the pump is not running after its initial start up/testing regime & no way of knowing without the diagnostics what the fault is. I've got it heating water & room using electric , which is more then he had for the last 4 weeks.
Just got to find them places with electric on the journey home.

Thanks to all who replied ,it was all helpful in different ways.

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[andy63]

but the pump is not running after its initial start up/testing regime

So are you sure the pump does run at all.. Does the hydronic fire up initially and then just shut down..
If the pump isn't running at all it wouldn't be long before it shut down on high water temp anyway..
It might well be a case of removing the heater from the system and checking the pump motor.. If it runs ok then I suspect its down to the hydronic ecu... And that's a totally sealed unit which I'll bet is pricey as well..
Andy.

 

[Sparks101]

Hi guys, just came across this interesting page. I have a question if anyone can help.
I have installed (some years ago) a combitronic system in my overlander. After a couple of years building I got to use it (The guarantee out of date) and found that the system works quite well with one exception. When the heater is on using the hydronic heater/pump internal system I cannot get warm air out. The heater burns, the calorifier heats up and water flows through the matrix constantly. The heater does not switch off and continues to heat the fluid. The fan does not kick in at any stage. I appreciate this seems to be a thermostatic type fault on face value.
The issue is I have never found any way to diagnose which part of the system is at fault. I had some issues with the ECU when I installed it, it may well have been damaged, but at £500 replacement it's a lot to spend if it is not the issue. I have never found a way, or a person with the ability, to test the system. The Eberspacher engineers I contacted seemed pretty reluctant to get involved.
The remainder of the system works well and correctly. With just hot water on it is heated and switches off when it reaches temperature. When used on the 240v hookup both hot water and heater function correctly.
Anyone any ideas or point me in the direction of a knowledgable engineer. I am just outside the M25, east london. But cannot travel into London because of LEZ.
cheers
Andy

 

[andy63]

When the heater is on using the hydronic heater/pump internal system I cannot get warm air out.

Not sure I understand ..does your hydronic supply a heat exchanger which has an inbuilt fan to give you blown hot air..
If that's the case and the fan doesn't operate that would point to the combitronic ecu fault..the fan runs of a pulse width modulated supply to control the fan speed and hence the amount of heat from the unit ..and the fan should kick in when the circulating water reaches about 30 deg cent..

Your problems with getting any diagnostic information rings a bell with me..
I seem to remember that my combitronic control panel was not capable of displaying any fault codes from the hydronic heater ecu.. and likewise the control panel needed its own plug in diagnostic kit.. like you I never found anyone who knew enough to help..
The hydronic heater should be capable of been diagnosed by any erberspacer agent but that doesn't help with faults on combitronic side..
The hydronic heater should shut down when the circulating water reaches a given temp..that temp is dependant on whether you have a stand alone system or you have a hydronic heater which is also engine plummed..if it is plummed into the engine cooling system the hydronic ecu has a lower cut off temperature than a stand alone hydronic heater..
Andy

 

[gus-lopez]

As Andy said the fault would appear to be on the combitronic side as when not on 240v & heating the fan should be running from the start .

The only people I know who are ok are Hickley's In Taunton, Somerset who are eberspacher agents & repair motorhome systems.Bit of a way from you though.

**

Just got to find them places with electric on the journey home.

So are you sure the pump does run at all.. Does the hydronic fire up initially and then just shut down..
If the pump isn't running at all it wouldn't be long before it shut down on high water temp anyway..
It might well be a case of removing the heater from the system and checking the pump motor.. If it runs ok then I suspect its down to the hydronic ecu... And that's a totally sealed unit which I'll bet is pricey as well..
Andy.

i didn't realise I hadn't updated this in the end. After we pressurised the system to force the air at high points around & back in to the tank, to all intents & purposes it appeared not to have worked.
A couple of days after leaving here he rang me to say he'd put it on the first night & it had functioned perfectly on heating & hot water & continued to do so all the way home & was still going ok when he changed the van last april

 

[Sparks101]

Not sure I understand ..does your hydronic supply a heat exchanger which has an inbuilt fan to give you blown hot air..
If that's the case and the fan doesn't operate that would point to the combitronic ecu fault..the fan runs of a pulse width modulated supply to control the fan speed and hence the amount of heat from the unit ..and the fan should kick in when the circulating water reaches about 30 deg cent..

Your problems with getting any diagnostic information rings a bell with me..
I seem to remember that my combitronic control panel was not capable of displaying any fault codes from the hydronic heater ecu.. and likewise the control panel needed its own plug in diagnostic kit.. like you I never found anyone who knew enough to help..
The hydronic heater should be capable of been diagnosed by any erberspacer agent but that doesn't help with faults on combitronic side..
The hydronic heater should shut down when the circulating water reaches a given temp..that temp is dependant on whether you have a stand alone system or you have a hydronic heater which is also engine plummed..if it is plummed into the engine cooling system the hydronic ecu has a lower cut off temperature than a stand alone hydronic heater..
Andy

Thanks Andy. So, I have the hydronic which supplies a hot water circuit through the calorifier and through a heater fan matrix which should give out the hot air. If you put the hot water on it comes on by itself, however when you put the heating on it automatically puts both on as they are a circuit. I think it is the ECU, but as i said before, £500 is a lot to spend if it's not! I also have a propex fitted so it's not all bad, I would just like it to work.
I may take the ECU out and reexamine it.
The system is also connected through thee engine coolant.
cheers
Andy

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[Sparks101]

As Andy said the fault would appear to be on the combitronic side as when not on 240v & heating the fan should be running from the start .

The only people I know who are ok are Hickley's In Taunton, Somerset who are eberspacher agents & repair motorhome systems.Bit of a way from you though.

I may take out the ECU and see what Hickley's can do, if anything, cheers

 

[andy63]

If you put the hot water on it comes on by itself, however when you put the heating on it automatically puts both on as they are a circuit.

I think I follow that..
So my heater and heat exchanger for the hot water both warmed up regardless if the hydronic fired up ..but if heating was selected that just ment the fan would run on that heat exchanger giving the hot air heating..
You say it works as it should if you use the 240v heating element.. it is the same fan so it sounds like it has to be something to do with the control not picking up on the water been heated..
Andy..