DVLA Call for Evidence from UK drivers with Medical Conditions

[Bryn_Middx]

DVLA Survey. DVLA may be seeking information from some of us. They have stated in the Link:

DVLA is responsible for driver licensing in Great Britain (GB). As the volume and complexity of driving licence applications or renewals where the applicant has one or more medical condition increases, the government believes that the time is right to review the existing legal framework. However, we recognise that there are many people and organisations with a wide range of expertise that might have views or ideas that they wish to share and that is why we are launching this call for evidence. We want to understand any opportunities for change in this area and we need your help with that. This call for evidence explains the current driver licensing framework and provides an insight into other countries’ medical licencing processes. This is not a consultation on developed proposals, but rather an early-stage request for input to help formulate proposals that could support potential future changes to the legislative framework.

DVLA adds that they seek to tap into a wide range of experience, views, and research to help them to identify areas where policy or legislative changes may be able to improve outcomes for drivers and other road users. This forum has a wide range of views from disabled driving through ailments that plague us to support for charities that help. I have not seen this survey elsewhere - closing date is 22 October.
There is a Snap Survey at: https://online1.snapsurveys.com/s3dxzw
or an email address at: CFE.meddriverlicensing@dvla.gov.uk

BPU (Blood Pressure Up) [Edit: BPW was already taken]: This survey has been picked up by the Daily Express!!

 

[nicholsong]

I cannot agree with their first statement, namely -

"DVLA is responsible for driver licensing in Great Britain (GB)"

DVSA is the body that supervises Driving Schools and Tests. DVLA are only involved in the paperwork for issue and renewal of licences. DVLA only become involved once a driver has trained and qualified for a licence.

Maybe as a result of this review this split responsibility might be resolved.

 

[Old Gibber]

Ever had a medical condition and waited for DVLA to give you the OK? I had a notifiable incident, and yet was fully recovered within a month, and have both a doctor and a consultants all clear, but it is down to DVLA to make the final decision. I'm still waiting 5 months later.

Be good to have any system so long as it works.

 

[JockandRita]

After the sh1t service they provided during the Covid period, (whereupon some folks still haven't had their licence/medical issues resolved as a result), they can go and whistle as far as I'm concerned.........and that is putting it extremely politely.

Jock.

 

[StephandJohn]

John's experienced similar and discovered that the delays are for two reasons. The consultants not replying or giving wrong dates and diagnosis and not enough medics at their end to look at the medical evidence.
You can complain and they do look at complaints and reply.
We've found if you ask the people on the phone what the delay is they can tell you if its the consultant not replying etc. Then you can phone the hospital and ask that medical secretary for help. They're usually extremely helpful.

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[Old Gibber]

John's experienced similar and discovered that the delays are for two reasons. The consultants not replying or giving wrong dates and diagnosis and not enough medics at their end to look at the medical evidence.
You can complain and they do look at complaints and reply.
We've found if you ask the people on the phone what the delay is they can tell you if its the consultant not replying etc. Then you can phone the hospital and ask that medical secretary for help. They're usually extremely helpful.

Been there, done that, still waiting.

 

[StephandJohn]

Have they explained where the delay is?

 

[VXman]

Certainly needs a review. I could not believe how lax the system was when my 93 year old MiL had a stroke. She wanted to drive after and we had to report her as a danger. DVLA weren't interested, doctor wasn't interested either.

After we did get the DVLA to remove her right to drive she went to the doctor to ask for a medical to get reinstated. He didn't know anything about the system.

It's basically a mess and anyone totally unfit to drive can easily carry on. There are too many old/medically unfit people driving who think they are ok. It's stupid for someone to self certificate - you will always ere on the side of 'im ok'. Regular government regulated medicals should be a must on a regular basis after a certain age.

 

[Puddleduck]

Ever had a medical condition and waited for DVLA to give you the OK? I had a notifiable incident, and yet was fully recovered within a month, and have both a doctor and a consultants all clear, but it is down to DVLA to make the final decision. I'm still waiting 5 months later.

Be good to have any system so long as it works.

Took them over a year to sort mine out. The four (?) months before they suspended my license I was legally allowed to drive (that was when I was probably most dangerous and didn't drive) then when I got the all clear they suspended my license. Took so long to sort it out by which time I had lost a lot of confidence and am probably a worse driver as a result.

 

[Puddleduck]

Certainly needs a review. I could not believe how lax the system was when my 93 year old MiL had a stroke. She wanted to drive after and we had to report her as a danger. DVLA weren't interested, doctor wasn't interested either.

After we did get the DVLA to remove her right to drive she went to the doctor to ask for a medical to get reinstated. He didn't know anything about the system.

It's basically a mess and anyone totally unfit to drive can easily carry on. There are too many old/medically unfit people driving who think they are ok. It's stupid for someone to self certificate - you will always ere on the side of 'im ok'. Regular government regulated medicals should be a must on a regular basis after a certain age.

We reported my Dad after several incidents. No action. Eventually his license was taken away when he had advanced dementia.

Mum gave up her car when she was 91 but had been driving until the garage said it was beyond economic repair - goodness knows what she had done and who had a word. She still has a license and from time to time says she is going to get another car. Luckily she doesn't have the energy to put the wish into action.

Giving up the car has restricted her social life as she won't shell out for a taxi but I'd rather have others safe than have her drive.

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[TheAleMan]

After the sh1t service they provided during the Covid period, (whereupon some folks still haven't had their licence/medical issues resolved as a result), they can go and whistle as far as I'm concerned.........and that is putting it extremely politely.

Jock.

Well Said Jock, I’m with you on that One. DVLA were a disgrace during that period.

 

[The Wino]

I think the problem is people see driving as a right. I used to see people whose sight was no longer legal they often said but I retired to live in the countryside and there aren't any busses. Sadly that doesn't make you see any better.
On the issue of consultants being late to reply at times when waiting lists are as long as they are is anyone surprised?

 

[Old Gibber]

Have they explained where the delay is?

DVLA blame the consultant, the hospital says it has returned their form. My doctor says he cannot do anything until DVLA contact him. Letters from DVLA take a month to arrive after the date on the letter.

 

[Old Gibber]

Took them over a year to sort mine out. The four (?) months before they suspended my license I was legally allowed to drive (that was when I was probably most dangerous and didn't drive) then when I got the all clear they suspended my license. Took so long to sort it out by which time I had lost a lot of confidence and am probably a worse driver as a result.

I eventually discovered they had not suspended my licence, and like you was quite nervous at first to get behind the wheel. At the end of the day if stopped I will claim Section 88 of the RTA. I've been discharged by the consultant as having made a full recovery.

 

[Bryn_Middx]

May I plant some thoughts for this evidence gathering session.

First: As something of a specialist driving community with a penchant for travel across the EU, we Funsters are not alone. With Israel, Norway, the Republic of Serbia and Switzerland, the UK subscribes to the European Transport Safety Council (ETSC) and its Road Safety Performance Index (PIN). The 40th PIN Flash report from March 2021 covered “Are Medical Fitness to Drive Procedures Fit for Purpose?”
Link.
Second: How many trained, current medical professionals are available to DVLA and qualified to access your medical records? By NHS standards and the volume of patients for any single Medical Trust, it is likely that DVLA has a huge list of individuals on which they are required to make medical based decisions that allow or deny access to licensed driving on UK roads. An answer to a FOI question/reply on this number would be interesting but might delay more essential work. While the Secretary of State for Transport’s Honorary Medical Advisory panels review medical standards, the DVLA process would obtain further information from healthcare professionals involved with the individual’s care and treatment, only for more complex cases. DVLA write directly to the doctor and request further medical information in the form of a questionnaire, which is designed to be completed from medical records. Who in the DVLA reads and acts on this sensitive data? In many cases a licensing decision might be based on the initial information given by the licence holder or applicant, but how does the follow-up process work? Replies above suggest that this follow-up mechanism has stumbled and not recovered.

Third: Data - The original Link advises the percentage and types of medical conditions that DVLA were investigating at 25 January 2023 as: ■ Alcohol and drugs (10.67%); ■ Neurology (33.12%); ■ Cardiology (11.17%); ■ Psychiatry (16.73%); ■ Diabetes (8.27%); ■ Vision (10.25%) & ■ Miscellaneous (9.79%)

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[Puddleduck]

I eventually discovered they had not suspended my licence, and like you was quite nervous at first to get behind the wheel. At the end of the day if stopped I will claim Section 88 of the RTA. I've been discharged by the consultant as having made a full recovery.

I was told by the consultant that I needed to report it but it wouldn't affect my license. How wrong she was ....... even after she wrote 8 (yes 8) letters to them and filled in the forms they sent in a timely manner (after the first went astray I collected the forms and posted them myself using guaranteed delivery) still no dice until my MP threatened to involve the ombudsman.

 

[Puddleduck]

May I plant some thoughts for this evidence gathering session.

First: As something of a specialist driving community with a penchant for travel across the EU, we Funsters are not alone. With Israel, Norway, the Republic of Serbia and Switzerland, the UK subscribes to the European Transport Safety Council (ETSC) and its Road Safety Performance Index (PIN). The 40th PIN Flash report from March 2021 covered “Are Medical Fitness to Drive Procedures Fit for Purpose?”
Link.
Second: How many trained, current medical professionals are available to DVLA and qualified to access your medical records? By NHS standards and the volume of patients for any single Medical Trust, it is likely that DVLA has a huge list of individuals on which they are required to make medical based decisions that allow or deny access to licensed driving on UK roads. An answer to a FOI question/reply on this number would be interesting but might delay more essential work. While the Secretary of State for Transport’s Honorary Medical Advisory panels review medical standards, the DVLA process would obtain further information from healthcare professionals involved with the individual’s care and treatment, only for more complex cases. DVLA write directly to the doctor and request further medical information in the form of a questionnaire, which is designed to be completed from medical records. Who in the DVLA reads and acts on this sensitive data? In many cases a licensing decision might be based on the initial information given by the licence holder or applicant, but how does the follow-up process work? Relpies above suggest that this follow-up mechanism has stumbled and not recovered

Third: Data - The original Link advises the percentage and types of medical conditions that DVLA were investigating at 25 January 2023 as: ■ Alcohol and drugs (10.67%); ■ Neurology (33.12%); ■ Cardiology (11.17%); ■ Psychiatry (16.73%); ■ Diabetes (8.27%); ■ Vision (10.25%) & ■ Miscellaneous (9.79%)

I asked for a FOI response when I was waiting for my issue to be resolved but was told they don't have the data.

 

[gus-lopez]

and not enough medics at their end to look at the medical evidence.

they do not have any mdically qualified personnel working for them or as consultants to them.
It is all done by a "committee of knife hands" , basically you & me plus others, reviewing ( as in read )the medical evidence.

How many trained, current medical professionals are available to DVLA and qualified to access your medical records?

None .see above

 

[mondo]

Probably why my renewal is taking so long..6 weeks so far...
And they quote 3 weeks..lots of email phone calls..still nothing...

 

[The Wino]

they do not have any mdically qualified personnel working for them or as consultants to them.
It is all done by a "committee of knife hands" , basically you & me plus others, reviewing ( as in read )the medical evidence.

None .see above

There certainly were some medically trained staff a few years ago because I had a chat with one about someones field of vision. The person said that the field in question would probably be passed although they wouldn't fancy being on the road at the same time! I think the bias is actually a bit in favour of the driver contrary to somes opinions

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[VXman]

Sounds very simi

We reported my Dad after several incidents. No action. Eventually his license was taken away when he had advanced dementia.

Mum gave up her car when she was 91 but had been driving until the garage said it was beyond economic repair - goodness knows what she had done and who had a word. She still has a license and from time to time says she is going to get another car. Luckily she doesn't have the energy to put the wish into action.

Giving up the car has restricted her social life as she won't shell out for a taxi but I'd rather have others safe than have her drive.

Sounds so similar to my MiL. We were finally saved by the car being put in for an MOT and failing. The expense of repair meant it was scrapped.

She doesn't like getting taxis, partly due to cost although she could afford it.

We try to explain that it would be cheaper to take a taxi for the times she travels than it would to tax/insure/maintain a car but she doesn't get it.

 

[Bessy765]

During Covid I didnot enclose a new photo as they had said they could take one from my passport, got it back 5 months later requesting a new photo. Sent it off got a reply 5 months later again that they needed to write to my GP, GP got the request 3 months later then it took them another 2 months to issue my licence

 

[John Russell]

John's experienced similar and discovered that the delays are for two reasons. The consultants not replying or giving wrong dates and diagnosis and not enough medics at their end to look at the medical evidence.
You can complain and they do look at complaints and reply.
We've found if you ask the people on the phone what the delay is they can tell you if its the consultant not replying etc. Then you can phone the hospital and ask that medical secretary for help. They're usually extremely helpful.

They told me the same thing, but I happen to know it was untrue, as they got a GP's report within three days of their questionnaire arriving, and consultants within a couple of weeks.

The DVLA were taking 4+ weeks to look at the responses. Around a month for the doctors and six for the DVLA amounted to a total of seven months for an annual renewal.