Diesel starting after storage?

[TUT]

After a year in storage how’s best to start a Fiat Ducati 2.3, considering the Oil which was new just before storage has drained to the bottom of the engine?

 

[PP Bear]

Just turn the key and start it up.

Modern oil and engine oil pumps are pretty good these days. The quicker it's started, the quicker it's all getting oil at the correct pressure.

 

[vantastic]

Make sure the battery is fully charged first as well. I would preheat the glow plugs for a couple of seconds (Ornage coil light on the dash) before I turn the key fully to crank the engine. That's it.

 

[TUT]

Thanks PP I’m a boater, is there a way to turn it over without it firing up?

 

[PhilMary]

Thanks PP I’m a boater, is there a way to turn it over without it firing up?

If you turn it over won't all the water rush in??
Phil

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[tacr2man]

You can turn it over , just pull the fuse in panel that supplies fuel pump or ecu . Crank it over a few times switch off then replace fuse. switch on and start

 

[TUT]

Thanks everyone, Hi Phil exhaust water traps take a lot of water to fill, you would more than likely cook the starter motor first.

 

[Spriddler]

After a year in storage how’s best to start a Fiat Ducati 2.3, considering the Oil which was new just before storage has drained to the bottom of the engine?

Thanks PP I’m a boater, is there a way to turn it over without it firing up?

Does the boat have a Fiat Ducato 2.3 engine?
(Just curious).

 

[TUT]

Hi yes a Fiat 2.3 engine

 

[TUT]

Just kidding no, but a similar turbo 2.2 engine but no computer

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[PP Bear]

No don't crank it over without starting, that's the worst you can do. It needs starting so that the oil starts to be pumped at MOG pressure (Main Oil Gallery) or you'll just be turning over metal to metal, better to just start it.

Pulling fuses can lead to the engine management light coming on and the vehicle registering a fault, when there is no need too.

Just turn the key, the glow plug light will illuminate for a few seconds and fire it up..

The advice on the battery is worth considering if you think yours might be flat.

 

[TUT]

Thanks PP, that makes it easy, I’m a bit of a planer even though I doubt I will get back to the UK till next year, and planing what to do when we do, our MH will be 3 years old and only 4000 miles so thinking of a service with Brake fluid change. Thanks again

 

[Coolcats]

No don't crank it over without starting, that's the worst you can do. It needs starting so that the oil starts to be pumped at MOG pressure (Main Oil Gallery) or you'll just be turning over metal to metal, better to just start it.

Pulling fuses can lead to the engine management light coming on and the vehicle registering a fault, when there is no need too.

Just turn the key, the glow plug light will illuminate for a few seconds and fire it up..

The advice on the battery is worth considering if you think yours might be flat.

Interestingly the oil pump in an engine only provides a few pounds of pressure, the rest comes from the con rod and the mains bearings as the engine runs ( hence lower oil pressure wen the mains bearings wear as this is where the oil escapes under pressure)

 

[Nasher]

A very informative thread

I have a '72 Honda race bike, with overhead cam. There is a bolt at the top of the engine, which after engine rebuilds, is removed and the engine cranked over until oil squirts out - you then have to put the bolt back in ? (& lockwire it)

As the bike has no kick or electric stater, I used to push it along the road, in gear, for about 50 metres! (I have recently bought some roller starters, to make this job easier)

 

[jockaneezer]

Interestingly the oil pump in an engine only provides a few pounds of pressure, the rest comes from the con rod and the mains bearings as the engine runs ( hence lower oil pressure wen the mains bearings wear as this is where the oil escapes under pressure)

You're gonna have to explain that to me, I don't understand how the main bearings can make pressure ? I can understand how worn bearings can lose the pressure that the oil pump makes though ?

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[John Barrett]

You're gonna have to explain that to me, I don't understand how the main bearings can make pressure ? I can understand how worn bearings can lose the pressure that the oil pump makes though ?

Just to clarify matters...
The oil pressure generated in most engines should be about 10 psi per every 1000 revolutions per minute (rpm), peaking around 55-65 psi. Local pressure (at the crankshaft journal and bearing) is far higher than the 50, 60 psi &c. set by the pump's relief valve, and will reach hundreds of psi.

 

[Coolcats]

You're gonna have to explain that to me, I don't understand how the main bearings can make pressure ? I can understand how worn bearings can lose the pressure that the oil pump makes though ?

As the piston hurtels up and down the bore the forces created try and squeeze the oil between the Conrod bearing And the crankshaft trying to squeeze the oil out of the gap between the bearing and crank, a liquid cannot be compressed so the oil is forced back up through the oil galleries, it is this that creates pressure an oil pump only produces around 4lb of pressure the rest is done by the pressure created around the crank and is why I change the oil every year.

 

[Coolcats]

Just to clarify matters...
The oil pressure generated in most engines should be about 10 psi per every 1000 revolutions per minute (rpm), peaking around 55-65 psi. Local pressure (at the crankshaft journal and bearing) is far higher than the 50, 60 psi &c. set by the pump's relief valve, and will reach hundreds of psi.

Interesting I have a car that displays 70lb of pressure at 70 mph and the water temp is 70 degrees @2,500rpm. If the water temp goes up the pressure drops a few lbs this is due to viscosity (not thickness or thinness of the oil) Visosity is the rate of flow at a given temperature

 

[John Barrett]

Interesting I have a car that displays 70lb of pressure at 70 mph and the water temp is 70 degrees @2,500rpm. If the water temp goes up the pressure drops a few lbs this is due to viscosity (not thickness or thinness of the oil) Visosity is the rate of flow at a given temperature

Please forgive me if I don't continue this discussion. After Jim's comments this weekend I don't want to get myself banned!

 

[jockaneezer]

Thanks, every day's a school day !

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[Coolcats]

Please forgive me if I don't continue this discussion. After Jim's comments this weekend I don't want to get myself banned!

No problem I was typing my response as you we’re typing yours I am not saying 10lb of pressure at the pump is not true, it will depend on the requirement but 4-10lb seems reasonable. Also when my car’s rpm goes to 7,800 the pressure does not increase so you are right the pressure relief valve has done its job. So I guess the take away from all this is, the pump provides low pressure the engines oil pressure is reliant on good bearings and oil Pressure (including relief valve) all of which is maintained by water and oil temperature ( keeping within normal operating temp Which is by design). Your not wrong in what you have said as each engine is different and has different requirements.

 

[TUT]

Thanks everyone, I’ll just start it up.

 

[tonyidle]

No don't crank it over without starting, that's the worst you can do. It needs starting so that the oil starts to be pumped at MOG pressure (Main Oil Gallery) or you'll just be turning over metal to metal, better to just start it.

Pulling fuses can lead to the engine management light coming on and the vehicle registering a fault, when there is no need too.

Just turn the key, the glow plug light will illuminate for a few seconds and fire it up..

The advice on the battery is worth considering if you think yours might be flat.

The oil pump turns whether the engine fires or not. It's perfectly possible to achieve full oil pressure using the starter alone. I do it every time I change the oil filter on a non-ECU vehicle.

 

[Pausim]

I understand that there is a momentary increase in the pressure of the oil between the bearing surfaces when they come under load, which protects them, but surely if the oil circulation system relied on this pressure it would equalise on both sides of the bearing and stop the oil flow altogether. I think there is something missing in this explanation.

 

[Coolcats]

The oil pump turns whether the engine fires or not. It's perfectly possible to achieve full oil pressure using the starter alone. I do it every time I change the oil filter on a non-ECU vehicle.

There will be an increase in pressure, whether it is ‘full’ pressure is something else it may or may not be less pressure than idle speed let alone at tickover the only way to tell would be putting a pressure gauge on, my money is that will be less pressure on cranking than with the engine running but then again dies it matter?

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[Coolcats]

I understand that there is a momentary increase in the pressure of the oil between the bearing surfaces when they come under load, which protects them, but surely if the oil circulation system relied on this pressure it would equalise on both sides of the bearing and stop the oil flow altogether. I think there is something missing in this explanation.

Nothing is missing in the explanation, the bores are oiled by the tiny channel in the conrod which squirts oil on to the wall of the cylinder bore. The oil is pushed through the crank to the supporting bearings where the oil is pushed up through various ducts to the oil gallery it’s all quite simple. You cannot compress a liquid there for it had to go somewhere and that somewhere is the oil galleries etc.

a liquid will always take the least path of resistance.

should add I have a dry sump-on one of my vehicles, the oil pump is external and driven by a belt

 

[tonyidle]

There will be an increase in pressure, whether it is ‘full’ pressure is something else it may or may not be less pressure than idle speed let alone at tickover the only way to tell would be putting a pressure gauge on, my money is that will be less pressure on cranking than with the engine running but then again dies it matter?

I'm speaking from admittedly limited experience. The vehicle with an oil gauge was a Reliant Scimitar with a 3 litre V6 Ford engine. Idle pressure on a cold engine was around 50 - 60 psi. It would reach 50+ on the starter motor. Whenever possible, if starting with a new and partially filled oil filter, I crank the engine without starting it until I see the pressure gauge move or at least the oil light go out. Nowadays that isn't easy or possible and no it doesn't worry me. Starting an engine that has stood for while wouldn't worry me at all - the oil filter is full anyway. I'd simply start it without a second thought. As I have always done.

Here's a few:

 

[Steve N Tracy]

Sorry but over 45 years in the motor trade this is first time I have heard of the conrods supplying the majority of the oil pressure, if as you said the oil takes the path of least resistance then rather they go back down the narrow oil galleries it would come out round the side of the big end shells.

 

[John Barrett]

Sorry but over 45 years in the motor trade this is first time I have heard of the conrods supplying the majority of the oil pressure, if as you said the oil takes the path of least resistance then rather they go back down the narrow oil galleries it would come out round the side of the big end shells.

Agreed. I learnt a long time ago that a little knowledge can be extremely dangerous!
John

 

[Coolcats]

Sorry but over 45 years in the motor trade this is first time I have heard of the conrods supplying the majority of the oil pressure, if as you said the oil takes the path of least resistance then rather they go back down the narrow oil galleries it would come out round the side of the big end shells.

Hmm well, I may not be totally correct however this guy has a thing to say about pressure so

Agreed. I learnt a long time ago that a little knowledge can be extremely dangerous!
John

I guess I little knowledge is a Dangerous thing, I do agree with you "The pumping action of the journal forces the oil to squeeze through the wedge shaped gap generating a pressure."

I am sure we are all right and wrong, I think this helps to explain why all the oil does not all pour out of the sides of the shells.

http://www.kingbearings.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Engine-Bearings-and-how-they-work.pdf