Can I connect a B2B charger to my 2017 Hymer?
- Thread starter colyboy
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- Sep 29, 2019
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I have just fitted a 30amp Votronic. There is a thread with pics about how I did it.
You could go bigger but that would require you to run new cables between engine and leisure battery. The Votronic one, being 30amps is less than the rating of the charging circuit which is 50 amps, this means you can use existing cable and fuse.
You could go bigger but that would require you to run new cables between engine and leisure battery. The Votronic one, being 30amps is less than the rating of the charging circuit which is 50 amps, this means you can use existing cable and fuse.
- Aug 29, 2010
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What about the Schaudt B2B? 25amp, I believe.
Lenny HB
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- Oct 18, 2007
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No problem and if it is 60 amp or less you can wire it via the Elektroblock. Just connect the cable from the starter battery that goes to the EBL to the input of the B2B and the output from the B2B to the starter battery input on the EBL.
Doing that way it feeds through the split charge relay in the EBL which is a 70 amp relay.
Doing that way it feeds through the split charge relay in the EBL which is a 70 amp relay.
Theonlysue
LIFE MEMBER
Why would you need one?
I thought the schaudt charged 80% leisure and 20% engine battery.
I thought the schaudt charged 80% leisure and 20% engine battery.
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Lenny HB
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- Oct 18, 2007
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No good if you are not on EHU.
All sounds complicated, I had 3 x lithium Transporter batteries fitted while I watched, I was surprised that there was no change to onboard electrics, they told me the battery had its own electrics so not needed. had them on for about 3 years and no problem and they are brilliant
eddie
LIFE MEMBER
You will just charge them at a fraction of their actual "capable" charge rate, or in other words you will have to drive longer to charge them properly.
funflair
LIFE MEMBER
Hi Sue
This is a Battery2Battery charger, you might be thinking about battery master? the B2B boosts the charge when driving and I understand that it is particularly important to fit along with LiFePO4 batteries.
OP
OP
- Mar 21, 2010
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Thanks everybody for your answers. I will ponder them all. happy new year to you all and hope fully more travels very soon.
colyboy
colyboy
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eddie
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B2B is the best way to get the most out of your lithium batteries.
Mains? No point having Lithium if you intend to be on hook up 27/4
Solar? well in the UK Solar is excellent for a 1/3rd of the year when you don't need much power, OK for 1/3rd of the year, when you need more power and useless for a 1/3 when you really need power.
This breaks down to Summer, with a bit of Spring and a bit of Autumn. Spring and Autumn & Winter with a bit of Autumn and a bit of Spring
Mains? No point having Lithium if you intend to be on hook up 27/4
Solar? well in the UK Solar is excellent for a 1/3rd of the year when you don't need much power, OK for 1/3rd of the year, when you need more power and useless for a 1/3 when you really need power.
This breaks down to Summer, with a bit of Spring and a bit of Autumn. Spring and Autumn & Winter with a bit of Autumn and a bit of Spring
I recently installed a 200ah Winston DIY LiFePO4 battery with the Votronic VCC 1212-90 B2B into my 2005 Euramobil. Because I installed a 90amp B2B, I ran 50mm2 cable from the engine battery to the B2B and installed a relay before the ECB.
I had a problem with my 120amp factory alternator not being powerful enough for the B2B that I fitted, so I landed up upgrading my alternator to a 160amp, which is working really well now! I had planned to upgrade it at some stage anyway, so just did it sooner than planned.
I believe that although LiFePO4 is capable of a much faster charge rate than other chemistries, the cells will last longer if you charge them slower. We're not talking about halving the life of them if you use a 90amp B2B over a 30amp (for example), but it does affect the longevity of the cells and there have been various tests showing this. That said, most LiFePO4 cells will give you 4,000+ cycles if you look after them (even charging and discharging at high currents, but within the chemistry threshold limits), so you still get plenty of life out of them.
One other thing to think about when you're planning is that your B2B may have the ability to charge the engine battery when your van is stationary if your leisure battery has a full state of charge, which is handy to keep your engine battery topped up without having to connect up another charger to it, etc..
This is one of the reasons why I chose the Votronic B2B and to run a cable for the B2B. I would have run a cable for the B2B to take advantage of this even if I had the lower capacity B2B. If you wire it directly into your current system, this function obviously won't work if the split charge in your ECB is left in tact. This may not be an issue for you, of course.
I had a problem with my 120amp factory alternator not being powerful enough for the B2B that I fitted, so I landed up upgrading my alternator to a 160amp, which is working really well now! I had planned to upgrade it at some stage anyway, so just did it sooner than planned.
I believe that although LiFePO4 is capable of a much faster charge rate than other chemistries, the cells will last longer if you charge them slower. We're not talking about halving the life of them if you use a 90amp B2B over a 30amp (for example), but it does affect the longevity of the cells and there have been various tests showing this. That said, most LiFePO4 cells will give you 4,000+ cycles if you look after them (even charging and discharging at high currents, but within the chemistry threshold limits), so you still get plenty of life out of them.
One other thing to think about when you're planning is that your B2B may have the ability to charge the engine battery when your van is stationary if your leisure battery has a full state of charge, which is handy to keep your engine battery topped up without having to connect up another charger to it, etc..
This is one of the reasons why I chose the Votronic B2B and to run a cable for the B2B. I would have run a cable for the B2B to take advantage of this even if I had the lower capacity B2B. If you wire it directly into your current system, this function obviously won't work if the split charge in your ECB is left in tact. This may not be an issue for you, of course.
I have fitted the 50A version of the Votronic (1215-50) that Googlebot fitted. This will charge your batteries a bit faster. You will need to run a cable to the batteries for the temp sensor. Particularly important for lithium to prevent it trying to charge the batteries when below 0 degrees which is a no-no.
Also need a D+signal from the EBL.
With this setup the cab battery will still be charged via the EBL provided the B2B only charges at a maximum rate of 50A. As nigelivy says above, to go for a larger current B2B than 50A you will need additional cables.
Also need a D+signal from the EBL.
With this setup the cab battery will still be charged via the EBL provided the B2B only charges at a maximum rate of 50A. As nigelivy says above, to go for a larger current B2B than 50A you will need additional cables.
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eddie
LIFE MEMBER
Inadequate cabling and connectors are the biggest letdown in most Motorhome split charge system.
Just in case any thinks a ‘Split charge’ system is a clever or wondrous thing! It’s a cheap old relay, that ‘closes’ as soon as the engine starts, simply joining the engine and the leisure batteries together, via a skinny wire
This applies even if your cheapo relay is in an expensive box
Think Sargent, CBE and Schaudt and think Amstrad and Technics for ‘stack systems’ opposed to separates.
People often say to us “Hymer wouldn’t fit them if they weren’t any good” and we answer that we’re not saying that they’re no good, just that they’re designed for the ‘average’ person to use their motorhomes in the ‘average’ way IE lots of sites and hook up’s.
Also of course, Hymer don’t fit them on their top end stuff.
So if your going to go to the expense of fitting Lithium batteries, install a charging system that will allow you to take advantage of one of the major benefits of Lithium, ultra quick charging.
Some one posted he had three Transporter batteries simply ‘dropped’ and ‘didn’t need to change anything’
Transporters own web site lists ‘Ultra Fast’ charge and one of their batteries four main selling points, looking at the specs, their batteries can take a maximum of 100 amp but they quote a ‘safe charge rate’ of 60amps.
The poster has paid for three of them so his Lithium bank is capable of charging at 180 -300 amps, but the installers told him his original split charge would be ‘OK’
Personally my on road charge rate is 160 amp which works really well.
Just in case any thinks a ‘Split charge’ system is a clever or wondrous thing! It’s a cheap old relay, that ‘closes’ as soon as the engine starts, simply joining the engine and the leisure batteries together, via a skinny wire
This applies even if your cheapo relay is in an expensive box
Think Sargent, CBE and Schaudt and think Amstrad and Technics for ‘stack systems’ opposed to separates.
People often say to us “Hymer wouldn’t fit them if they weren’t any good” and we answer that we’re not saying that they’re no good, just that they’re designed for the ‘average’ person to use their motorhomes in the ‘average’ way IE lots of sites and hook up’s.
Also of course, Hymer don’t fit them on their top end stuff.
So if your going to go to the expense of fitting Lithium batteries, install a charging system that will allow you to take advantage of one of the major benefits of Lithium, ultra quick charging.
Some one posted he had three Transporter batteries simply ‘dropped’ and ‘didn’t need to change anything’
Transporters own web site lists ‘Ultra Fast’ charge and one of their batteries four main selling points, looking at the specs, their batteries can take a maximum of 100 amp but they quote a ‘safe charge rate’ of 60amps.
The poster has paid for three of them so his Lithium bank is capable of charging at 180 -300 amps, but the installers told him his original split charge would be ‘OK’
Personally my on road charge rate is 160 amp which works really well.
- Oct 12, 2009
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We fitted our B2B quite separately from the EBL which avoids any complications. We see the volts being charged but not the amps, but just from the volts I know it is operating properly and giving us a high rate of charge. We do not have any of these clever monitoring systems that shows battery states etc.
Geoff
Geoff
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