Buy and keep MH in Spain while living in UK? (1 Viewer)

[Fitz Blitz]

I'm planning on buying a motorhome, probably in 2021. I'm doing a lot of research at present. I will be buying a second-hand vehicle.

The ideal way for me to do it, I think, is to buy it in Spain and keep it in Spain.

I've been looking at discussions about this here and at other places on the Internet.

I get the impression that if the vehicle is registered in the UK then it has to come back to the UK for an MOT every year. Also it could only be in Spain for six months at a time.

I do know people who have a villa in Spain and a car there in Spain while at the same time they have their home in the UK. So I am thinking that what I would need really is an address in Spain.

I'm wondering if it would be possible to register and insure the vehicle in Spain using a PO Box or something like that?

If need be I could keep the vehicle in Spain for six months and then bring it back to the UK for six months. However I think it would be easier just to keep it in Spain all the time.

Anyway I'd appreciate any comments to put me in the right direction for research.

Thank you!

 

[138go]

You will only be able to go for three months in every 180 days, so what’s the point of keeping it there. One of the joys of MH is being able to pack your own stuff at home and then set off. If you have to fly out you can’t do that. There are also insurance implications.

 

[Fitz Blitz]

Thank you for your reply.

I should say that I am an Irish citizen as well as a British citizen so there is no restriction on the amount of time I can spend in Spain.

I think I can keep enough stuff in the motorhome and then just take anything I need in addition in a suitcase.

So for me the question is the feasibility of registering it in Spain with a PO Box address or something like that. I'm thinking I need to address this to an "expat" forum perhaps where people deal with these legalities quite a lot.

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[TheBig1]

what you may be able to do is arrange with a friend to store your vehicle at and registered to their spanish address and pay them. I believe it is fairly difficult to officially purchase, tax and insure a vehicle in spain without being a resident?
gus-lopez might know the answer

 

[Fitz Blitz]

Thank you TheBig1. That is a good idea. I do have friends in Southern Spain and perhaps I could do something with them.

 

[EuroTrotters]

what you may be able to do is arrange with a friend to store your vehicle at and registered to their spanish address and pay them. I believe it is fairly difficult to officially purchase, tax and insure a vehicle in spain without being a resident?
gus-lopez might know the answer

As far as I know.

you have to have an NIE or be a resident to do what the OP is asking .

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[Just smiffy]

What do you intend to do with the motorhome out there..? Would not a towing caravan be better if your not touring whilst out there..?

 

[OldAgeTravellers]

I should say that I am an Irish citizen as well as a British citizen so there is no restriction on the amount of time I can spend in Spain.

I am afraid it is the same 90 day in 180 (edit: wrong 180 in 365) rule even for EU citizens (Irish) unless you are tax resident. This probably won't change after B-----t. The hope is that they will finally allow UK residents to do the same so as to protect their tourist industry, but probably a Visa will be required even for short stays. The hope is that they will allow a three, six or nine month visa for property owners.
Car owning for non residents is a grey area. If you own or lease a property you will probably be OK but technically not allowed unless you encounter a real jobsworth, but a p.o. box I think will not be adequate. It all depends on whether you get caught and who by. You will need to produce utility bills and passports for you and wife.
Spain is still a bit lax with GB vehicles although getting stricter. France clamped down some years ago mainly by stopping insurers issuing policy's for more than three months. There are exceptions that I know of near me in France and in Spain but I suspect they are not insured, probably not MOT'd and woe betide anybody that gets hit by them.
As an Irish citizen your best bet would be to buy a small property perhaps agricultural with water and electric on to the site so you have utility bills and permission from the authorities to have a caravan/mobile home on the site. I was told of such a property last year for only €15k. Security however would be an issue.
In your position I would keep your motorhome with you because you will have no problem staying up to 90 days but I think you would probably have to register and insure it in Southern Island.
Steve

Sorry I am Talking BS-t you are allowed 180 days in a year but are still not allowed to have a vehicle unless you are resident. I am confusing myself because of recent conversations with people here in France.

 

[Fitz Blitz]

As far as I know.

you have to have an NIE or be a resident to do what the OP is asking .

Thank you for that. I think it is looking more likely I'll have to go with "plan B" which is to keep it in Spain for six months of the year.

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[Fitz Blitz]

I am afraid it is the same 90 day in 180 rule even for EU citizens (Irish) unless you are tax resident.
Steve

Okay, well that is interesting.

Buying a bit of land in Spain is something I have thought of although I would be concerned about security.

 

[OldAgeTravellers]

Okay, well that is interesting.

Buying a bit of land in Spain is something I have thought of although I would be concerned about security.

Sorry see my edited post. #8 above

 

[Graham of Madrid]

You could apply for Spanish residency with the help of your friends for a base address or have I missed something ? With residency you can register a vehicle at that base address.

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[Fitz Blitz]

What do you intend to do with the motorhome out there..? Would not a towing caravan be better if your not touring whilst out there..?

I would be touring while I was out there. I would be touring Spain, other parts of Europe and possibly North Africa. I think I'd get a bit more adventurous each trip.

The storage in Spain is cheaper that any near me in Brighton & Hove in the UK. As I will be travelling around Spain mostly on each trip I quite like not having to drive through France or take the ferry from Portsmouth to Santander.

There isn't any covered storage near Brighton & Hove so the motorhome would be subject to the rain all winter whereas I can get covered storage in Spain for less money.

 

[Fitz Blitz]

Thank you for all your suggestions. It has been very helpful indeed and I've learned quite a few things.

I am thinking now that the best way for me to go is to keep the motorhome in Spain for six months, then bring it to the UK for six months each year.

In the longer term I would look at alternatives such as getting Spanish residency, something like that.

For me having the motorhome stationed in Spain and then flying to it is very appealing. If it is in the UK in Brighton & Hove where I live then if I want to go exploring Spain I have to either drive down through France or get the ferry from Porstmouth to Santander and neither is very appealing. Visiting France is wonderful, but driving across France is not.

With it in Spain then I can just fly to it and take it off to wherever I wish.

I don't wish to have a caravan there because I do want to travel around with it and so I'd have to keep the tow vehicle in the UK and drive down through France or take the ferry. I'm no better off with that. I don't have a car at all and living in Brighton & Hove I have no need of one.

In fact my house has an absolutely brilliant parking space for a motorhome however I let that out and I quite like the money from that. It is a lot cheaper for me to rent the space in Spain than to use my own driveway!

When the motorhome is in the UK for me it is actually a bit of a nuisance. I have to keep it in storage here anyway which is more expensive than in Spain, but still a lot cheaper than using my own driveway.

I do wish to travel around Spain and North Africa, more in the winter than the summer. I love being in Brighton & Hove in the summer but not so much in the winter. However I do want to come and go a bit so I don't want to be in Spain myself for the whole winter, however having the motorhome there would be very good.

I don't have any desire to travel around the British Isles because I know the UK and Ireland so well. The motorhome will be doing pretty much all its journeys in mainland Europe, so I want the steering wheel on the left of the cab.

 

[Paul1958]

There are very very strict rules about UK residents keeping foreign registered vehicles in UK. I should google it. I know that there is really cheap motorhome/caravan storage somewhere nr Faro airport, if Portugal is any good instead.

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[Fitz Blitz]

There are very very strict rules about UK residents keeping foreign registered vehicles in UK. I should google it. I know that there is really cheap motorhome/caravan storage somewhere nr Faro airport, if Portugal is any good instead.

I'm thinking I might get it re-registered in the UK, although I would prefer not to, however I suspect that I'd have to.

I will definitely check out the storage near Faro airport. I am quite interested in possibly using Chris Parking which is near Alicante airport.

 

[mikebeaches]

Thank you for all your suggestions. It has been very helpful indeed and I've learned quite a few things.

I am thinking now that the best way for me to go is to keep the motorhome in Spain for six months, then bring it to the UK for six months each year.

In the longer term I would look at alternatives such as getting Spanish residency, something like that.

For me having the motorhome stationed in Spain and then flying to it is very appealing. If it is in the UK in Brighton & Hove where I live then if I want to go exploring Spain I have to either drive down through France or get the ferry from Porstmouth to Santander and neither is very appealing. Visiting France is wonderful, but driving across France is not.

With it in Spain then I can just fly to it and take it off to wherever I wish.

I don't wish to have a caravan there because I do want to travel around with it and so I'd have to keep the tow vehicle in the UK and drive down through France or take the ferry. I'm no better off with that. I don't have a car at all and living in Brighton & Hove I have no need of one.

In fact my house has an absolutely brilliant parking space for a motorhome however I let that out and I quite like the money from that. It is a lot cheaper for me to rent the space in Spain than to use my own driveway!

When the motorhome is in the UK for me it is actually a bit of a nuisance. I have to keep it in storage here anyway which is more expensive than in Spain, but still a lot cheaper than using my own driveway.

I do wish to travel around Spain and North Africa, more in the winter than the summer. I love being in Brighton & Hove in the summer but not so much in the winter. However I do want to come and go a bit so I don't want to be in Spain myself for the whole winter, however having the motorhome there would be very good.

I don't have any desire to travel around the British Isles because I know the UK and Ireland so well. The motorhome will be doing pretty much all its journeys in mainland Europe, so I want the steering wheel on the left of the cab.

The plan you have just described almost precisely mirrors what we have done for the last two winters.

Alicante was our chosen Spanish base. We live 7 minutes from Bristol airport, which has a choice of daily flights going throughout the winter, so a piece of cake getting there and back - normal flight time circa 2 hours.

Typically, we were spending 2 weeks in Spain, followed by 2 weeks in the UK - it worked perfectly for us. Flights were cheap and easy, and as you say, indoor storage in Spain can be a bargain.

We used Chris Parking, who provide a concierge service with transfers to and from the airport taking about 5 minutes. We didn't mess around and just paid for 6 months indoor storage - €400 (inclusive of transfers), and including conditioning the batteries if necessary. Then we could come and go as we wished. It genuinely worked a dream for us.

We did get slightly caught out in March, when the pandemic struck and our final flight of the season to Spain was cancelled in the lockdown. Result, we were safely at home and the van was stuck in the garage in Alicante. We began to get twitchy about the MOT expiring, and the vehicle being in Spain for more than 6 months, and of course we wanted to use the van in the UK during summer. I'm sure we might have got away with driving back overdue, given the circumstances. Although we didn't know at that stage when it might be possible to return to Spain to collect the van. But by late we May decided to get it transported home, and it arrived safely at our house in mid-June, with the only slight damage being a small dent in our bank account.

But we'd have no hesitation doing it all again, but sadly I think probably not this winter.

PM me if you'd like more insight of the detail and how it worked for us.

Cheers, Mike

Edited to add, I've just seen your post suggesting you are thinking about using Chris Parking at Alicante!

 

[Fitz Blitz]

The plan you have just described almost precisely mirrors what we have done for the last two winters.

Great minds think alike!

I won't be getting the motorhome until late 2021. The coronavirus epidemic cut my income in half so everything has been delayed. However I am sure I will have reason to chat with you about your experiences between now and then so I will PM you when something comes up.

I see it like having a home from home… …on wheels.

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[mikebeaches]

Great minds think alike!

I see it like having a home from home… …on wheels.

Exactly!

We generally had flights back to the UK around mid to late morning, and discovered a favourite campsite about 20 motorway miles (30 minutes drive) from Chris Parking, that we used the night before coming home. Again, it just worked for us. We spent a lot of time in the van in and around Almeria, though we have travelled further afield in Spain and Portugal.

Any way, your plan sounds like a good one.

As it happens our van is right hand drive and UK supplied and registered. I guess left-hand drive would occasionally have been an advantage, but for us only marginally so. Both of us perfectly happy with rh-drive over there - just the odd awkward junction where it was handy having a co-pilot to watch out for traffic from the left...

 

[Yorick]

As far as I know.

you have to have an NIE or be a resident to do what the OP is asking .

A Spanish resident cannot drive a UK vehicle.

 

[gus-lopez]

So I am thinking that what I would need really is an address in Spain.

To do that unless you can get added to a friends address to get on the padron(electoral roll) & then obtain an nie number

I'm wondering if it would be possible to register and insure the vehicle in Spain using a PO Box or something like that?

I've often wondered that but you would still need an nie number.

s and then bring it back to the UK for six months.

As a UK citizen under EU rules you cannot drive it the moment it lands in the UK.
What will happen after year end is anybodies guess but I think rules will remain the same at the moment.

I believe it is fairly difficult to officially purchase, tax and insure a vehicle in spain without being a resident?

Non-residents can do but they are usually either homeowners with an escritura to obtain an nie or the other way is a long term rental(3 months min) which will enable an nie number & assuming it is a proper rental contract allow purchase of a vehicle.

I am thinking now that the best way for me to go is to keep the motorhome in Spain for six months, then bring it to the UK for six months each year.

What you would have to ensure though is that at any time you are driving it in the UK if stopped you are an Irish citizen . If your driving licence is Uk then the irish passport wouldn't even be enough it is where you are "resident" .

I'm thinking I might get it re-registered in the UK, although I would prefer not to, however I suspect that I'd have to.

Personally I wouldn't go down that route.

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[IanRJ]

I'm sure all of the responses are appropriate guidance.

My situation is I own a Spanish register car and a motorcycle in Spain and keep them at my house in Andalusia. Insurance is no problem, usually through Abbeygate for both.

I don't have residency but I do have an NIE, and of course a registered property and address.

Had zero issues since 2003. Hope you get the best resolution for your situation.

 

[mikebeaches]

I'm sure all of the responses are appropriate guidance.

My situation is I own a Spanish register car and a motorcycle in Spain and keep them at my house in Andalusia. Insurance is no problem, usually through Abbeygate for both.

I don't have residency but I do have an NIE, and of course a registered property and address.

Had zero issues since 2003. Hope you get the best resolution for your situation.

I don't really understand the requirements for either, but I am interested.

Presumably, you have chosen not to seek residency for your own personal reasons.

But I'd very much like to know what the NIE is and how one qualifies to obtain it? Again, presumably, the fact you own a Spanish property helps facilitate it?

It sounds as though you don't live in Spain full-time.

 

[IanRJ]

I don't really understand the requirements for either, but I am interested.

Presumably, you have chosen not to seek residency for your own personal reasons.

But I'd very much like to know what the NIE is and how one qualifies to obtain it? Again, presumably, the fact you own a Spanish property helps facilitate it?

It sounds as though you don't live in Spain full-time.

The NIE is a kind of registration you need to do most things in Spain. For example you need it BEFORE you can register a property in your name or buy a vehicle. Even have a bank account.

You make an application and I believe (it's a while ago now) go to the main Police station in your province to make the application and have it witnessed etc. Several weeks/ months later you either get the NIE or you don't!

I have been operating Consultancy business in several countries for a number of years and becoming a resident of Spain would have significant tax implications for me as all income (from any country) would have to be declared in Spain legally. Many don't but I want to stay legal in both Spain and UK.

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[gus-lopez]

Presumably, you have chosen not to seek residency for your own personal reasons.

Legally you can only become 'resident' if it is your actual main residence.
Some people divide there time betweena few & choose what is the most advantageous.

presumably, the fact you own a Spanish property helps facilitate it?

IE stands for Numero identificador extranjero= Foreigners identification number.
Required to do most anything in spain certainly for buying a house, renting, car bying etc,

becoming a resident of Spain would have significant tax implications for me as all income (from any country) would have to be declared in Spain legally. Many don't but I want to stay legal in both Spain and UK.

You are mistaken.
Residency & tax residency are 2 different things,

You can be a 'resident' ,which is required if you spend more than 90 consecutive days in a calendar year in spain, & regstration is obligatory. 89 days leave & return stops clock & restarts,
'Tax residency' = 183 days cumulatively in a calendar year.

It is quite possible to be 'resident' without being a 'tax resident' & a 'tax resident' without being a 'resident'.

 

[mikebeaches]

The NIE is a kind of registration you need to do most things in Spain. For example you need it BEFORE you can register a property in your name or buy a vehicle. Even have a bank account.

You make an application and I believe (it's a while ago now) go to the main Police station in your province to make the application and have it witnessed etc. Several weeks/ months later you either get the NIE or you don't!

I have been operating Consultancy business in several countries for a number of years and becoming a resident of Spain would have significant tax implications for me as all income (from any country) would have to be declared in Spain legally. Many don't but I want to stay legal in both Spain and UK.

Thanks for the clarification IanRJ and gus-lopez !! All very helpful info.

 

[Graham of Madrid]

I have insured through Abbeygate for 10 years now as they are based in Gibraltar if I remember correctly. I would go the route of having a Spanish vehicle permanently in Spain, no messing around with return trips and MOT's. You'd get a better vehicle with no potential rust issues. Getting an NIE is easy, you can get a Gestor to help you and that would make life easier.

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[EuroTrotters]

A Spanish resident cannot drive a UK vehicle.

I was thinking he was exporting to Spain . Got my wires crossed ⛈

 

[IanRJ]

Legally you can only become 'resident' if it is your actual main residence.
Some people divide there time betweena few & choose what is the most advantageous.


IE stands for Numero identificador extranjero= Foreigners identification number.
Required to do most anything in spain certainly for buying a house, renting, car bying etc,


You are mistaken.
Residency & tax residency are 2 different things,

You can be a 'resident' ,which is required if you spend more than 90 consecutive days in a calendar year in spain, & regstration is obligatory. 89 days leave & return stops clock & restarts,
'Tax residency' = 183 days cumulatively in a calendar year.

It is quite possible to be 'resident' without being a 'tax resident' & a 'tax resident' without being a 'resident'.

Thanks for the clarification gus-Lopez it’s contrary to the advice of my tax solicitor both in UK and Spain, but it seems to be open for discussion. Following Your comments here I’ll take another look at is as there are definite benefits to residency right now before December.

Cheers

 

[IanRJ]

I have insured through Abbeygate for 10 years now as they are based in Gibraltar if I remember correctly. I would go the route of having a Spanish vehicle permanently in Spain, no messing around with return trips and MOT's. You'd get a better vehicle with no potential rust issues. Getting an NIE is easy, you can get a Gestor to help you and that would make life easier.

I think Abbeygate are in Spain and typically use an underwriter in Madrid. There is another insurer who is in Gib whose name escapes me at the moment, sorry. Both are good and I usually play one of against another annually, Abbeygate always trumps but needs a push!