B2B victron in Adria

[Trout bum]

Looking for some help if possible I want to fit a B2B victron charger into my Adria Matrix 670sl to feed my two 110amp leisure batteries, unfortunately at this moment I don't have lithium batteries, I have watched various videos on you tube so I know how to fit the unit , but no one can say if I need to alter the main control box or is it just a install and ready to go , can anyone help

 

[BillyKontiki]

Looking for some help if possible I want to fit a B2B victron charger into my Adria Matrix 670sl to feed my two 110amp leisure batteries, unfortunately at this moment I don't have lithium batteries, I have watched various videos on you tube so I know how to fit the unit , but no one can say if I need to alter the main control box or is it just a install and ready to go , can anyone help

Fitted the same to my Kontiki didn’t change anything worked brilliantly on my lead acid, now changed to lithium
2 x 100 amp h and works just as good.
Only the setting on the charger needed changed to lithium.
I’m no expert but I don’t think you need to change anything it is just a smart charger.

 

[Trout bum]

Fitted the same to my Kontiki didn’t change anything worked brilliantly on my lead acid, now changed to lithium
2 x 100 amp h and works just as good.
Only the setting on the charger needed changed to lithium.
I’m no expert but I don’t think you need to change anything it is just a smart charger.

Thanks for the info really appreciated.

 

[Bobby-gg]

I recently upgraded my ih to a b2b & lithium, and already having a victron solar controller and battery monitor it made perfect sense to use a Victron B2B too.

But, Victron only do a 30A B2B, which I thought was rather low for a single 110ah battery, so I went with an isolated Votronic 45A B2B instead - really impressed with the quality

Ecotree 110A lithium & B2B install 2008 ih Fiat PVC

Guys, I was another lucky recipient of the half price offer Ecotree lithium battery deal and, as I'd been preparing my vehicle over the last few year's to make the jump to lithium it couldn't of been timed any better. As a bit of background, we bought our van in summer 2019 and found out...

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[MisterB]

Looking for some help if possible I want to fit a B2B victron charger into my Adria Matrix 670sl to feed my two 110amp leisure batteries, unfortunately at this moment I don't have lithium batteries, I have watched various videos on you tube so I know how to fit the unit , but no one can say if I need to alter the main control box or is it just a install and ready to go , can anyone help

I've almost finished installing a Sterling B2B into our Adria 670 SLT!! just waiting for two 40a circuit breakers to arrive from Amazon this evening.

I ran two 16mm cables from the leisure battery compartment through to the vehicle battery via the heating channel duct and through the plastic trims etc around the passenger footwell. I chose to take the negative back to the starter battery instead of finding an earthing point.
No need to connect into anything other than the starter and leisure batteries, or alter any existing cables.

There are plenty of spare connecting points on the starter battery, you just need the right size nuts to fit the terminal studs.

I also took the opportunity to put an extra couple of cables in while all the trims were removed, one for a tracker of some sort and one for a battery master.

If you get stuck give me a shout and I can try to help where i routed the cables if necessary.

PS I also intend going to lithium later in the year - I would have done it by now if we weren't going away on Wednesday!

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[DBK]

Looking for some help if possible I want to fit a B2B victron charger into my Adria Matrix 670sl to feed my two 110amp leisure batteries, unfortunately at this moment I don't have lithium batteries, I have watched various videos on you tube so I know how to fit the unit , but no one can say if I need to alter the main control box or is it just a install and ready to go , can anyone help

I'm not familiar with the Victron as I have a Stirling B2B but it will need to know what sort of batteries it is connected to so it can select the correct charging profile. However, you may not need to change anything if the default setting suits your type of leisure batteries.

 

[autorouter]

but no one can say if I need to alter the main control box

What is the make/model of the main control box? With the existing arrangement, does the leisure battery charge from the alternator/starter battery when the engine is running? Are you wiring the B2B directly between the batteries, or are you wiring it through the main control box?

 

[autorouter]

There will be an existing method to charge the leisure battery from the alternator/starter battery. It's probably a split charge relay. It might be a B2B if it's a very new model with a smart alternator, or it has previously been upgraded to a B2B.

If it's a split charge relay, that will probably be built into the main 12V distribution/fusebox that supplies the habitation circuits. That's why it's useful to know what make/model the distribution/fusebox is. The split charge relay may need to be disabled, or there may be some other workaround.

The workaround may involve wiring the B2B through the distribution/fusebox instead of directly between the batteries.

 

[Trout bum]

I've almost finished installing a Sterling B2B into our Adria 670 SLT!! just waiting for two 40a circuit breakers to arrive from Amazon this evening.

I ran two 16mm cables from the leisure battery compartment through to the vehicle battery via the heating channel duct and through the plastic trims etc around the passenger footwell. I chose to take the negative back to the starter battery instead of finding an earthing point.
No need to connect into anything other than the starter and leisure batteries, or alter any existing cables.

There are plenty of spare connecting points on the starter battery, you just need the right size nuts to fit the terminal studs.

I also took the opportunity to put an extra couple of cables in while all the trims were removed, one for a tracker of some sort and one for a battery master.

If you get stuck give me a shout and I can try to help where i routed the cables if necessary.

PS I also intend going to lithium later in the year - I would have done it by now if we weren't going away on Wednesday!

MrB thanks so much for this info I've run 16mm cable from leisure batteries through the metal grid behind and between the seats then past fuel tank access lid into cab battery compartment so I guess I'm just similar to yourself , I really don't want to interfere with the main control unit so I'm just going to have a fuse at the cab battery positive then another fuse on the positive coming out of the b2b to the leisure batteries , sounds similar to yours I think ,

 

[MisterB]

sounds pretty similar, although i didnt take the shortcut as i didnt want to start removing or cutting through the foam underneath the flooring,

PS autorouter usually gives very good advice so its prob worth you just passing on the info to him re make/model of main control box - it might actually work out to be an simpler install?

have you ran 2 cables or 1 cable through to the starter battery? i was advised by Sterling to run the neutral back to the starter battery instead of a chassis earthing point - on the basis that i can be sure that it is correctly earthed, which is probably overkill, but i did it anyway!

i am removing my circuit breakers and installing fuses when i get chance in the next few days ( i sent the two 40 amp breakers back to amazon and ordered fuses and holders from 12v planet which will arrive tomorrow)- i have checked the circuit breakers i have already installed and they are functioning correctly and do break the circuit, but i have heard that they may actually not be the best protection method, so will be changing them, if only for piece of mind, strangely it works out quite a bit cheaper ....

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[Trout bum]

sounds pretty similar, although i didnt take the shortcut as i didnt want to start removing or cutting through the foam underneath the flooring,

PS autorouter usually gives very good advice so its prob worth you just passing on the info to him re make/model of main control box - it might actually work out to be an simpler install?

have you ran 2 cables or 1 cable through to the starter battery? i was advised by Sterling to run the neutral back to the starter battery instead of a chassis earthing point - on the basis that i can be sure that it is correctly earthed, which is probably overkill, but i did it anyway!

i am removing my circuit breakers and installing fuses when i get chance in the next few days ( i sent the two 40 amp breakers back to amazon and ordered fuses and holders from 12v planet which will arrive tomorrow)- i have checked the circuit breakers i have already installed and they are functioning correctly and do break the circuit, but i have heard that they may actually not be the best protection method, so will be changing them, if only for piece of mind, strangely it works out quite a bit cheaper ....

Hi I run both cables to cab battery thought it safer to do so , I ordered fuse units from them as well , I had already bought the trip breaker type but after watching Neil on Urban vanlifes video about how unsafe they are I won't be using them , better to keep safe .

 

[autorouter]

then another fuse on the positive coming out of the b2b to the leisure batteries

Not sure exactly what you mean, but the fuse in the leisure battery to B2B wire should go very near the leisure battery, not the B2B.

Also no-one has mentioned the split charge relay, which is a direct metallic connection between the starter battery and the leisure battery while the engine is running. That effectively shorts the input and output of the B2B. That negates any effect the B2B will have.

Don't take my word for it, test it yourself. Measure the starter battery voltage and the leisure battery voltage while the engine is running. If they are always the same, then the B2B is being shorted by the split charge relay. If they are different, then the B2B is working OK.

The split charge relay is built into the main control box. There are ways to fix this, but you probably shouldn't just ignore it.

 

[Trout bum]

What is the make/model of the main control box? With the existing arrangement, does the leisure battery charge from the alternator/starter battery when the engine is running? Are you wiring the B2B directly between the batteries, or are you wiring it through the main control box?

Hi Autorouter sorry for late reply, the control unit is. Nordelett model NE237 module 12volt with charger if that helps,

 

[autorouter]

You may find this thread of interest

Nordelectronica control unit.

Hello, my van has NE 274 control unit, 80Ah gel battery and 100w solar panel. I'm looking to change battery for 100Ah Lithium and use a combined B2B/ solar Energy unit. Can I run this along side the control unit or bypass what appears to be a VSR in the control unit? The solar currently seems...

www.motorhomefun.co.uk

It's about different boxes, but they are similar. My version of the NE237 manual doesn't say how to disable the split charge relay (they call it the coupler relay I think). Maybe it does in your version, look for anything about a 'DC-DC converter'.

Delta Conversions do NordElettronica units etc, and will know how to disable the split charge relay on the NE237, I'm sure. On the other units it was fairly easy, just connect a wire between two points (jumpers) on the main board.

 

[autorouter]

Delta Conversions do NordElettronica units etc, and will know how to disable the split charge relay on the NE237, I'm sure. On the other units it was fairly easy, just connect a wire between two points (jumpers) on the main board.

No such luck, I'm afraid. According to the guy at Delta Conversions there isn't a way of disabling the split charge relay in the NE237 by adding a link, like on many other NE units.

There are various other methods to disable the split charge relay. For example open up the box and look at the circuit board, and see if you can interrupt the D+ signal that triggers the relay, without blocking the D+ signal going to other components like the fridge relay - maybe cut a resistor, wire link or even cut through a circuit board copper track.

If you can find someone who can replace broken relays on a circuit board like that, you could ask them to remove the relay and not put anything in its place. Another more risky possibility is to attack the split charge relay with some big pliers/cutters and remove it bit by bit, trying not to damage anything else. Never done this myself, but I've heard of someone doing it.

An alternative is to disconnect the starter battery wire from the NE237, which will disable the split charge relay but also disable other things like the fridge relay. A good solution to this is to put a relay on the starter battery input wire. Arrange for it to switch OFF when the engine is running, and back ON when the engine stops.

If you use a 'changeover relay' instead of a simple on/off relay, you could attach the fridge 12V element wire to the other terminal of the relay, so it goes ON when the engine is running, and OFF when the engine stops.

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[BDM]

Never done this myself, but I've heard of someone doing it.

I did, brutal but effective!

 

[MisterB]

It would be good if someone knew an easy way to bypass or negate the split charge relay when adding a B2B ....
The bypass relay option sounds like a doable option, especially the changeover relay

 

[Mike KP]

There will be an existing method to charge the leisure battery from the alternator/starter battery. It's probably a split charge relay. It might be a B2B if it's a very new model with a smart alternator, or it has previously been upgraded to a B2B.

If it's a split charge relay, that will probably be built into the main 12V distribution/fusebox that supplies the habitation circuits. That's why it's useful to know what make/model the distribution/fusebox is. The split charge relay may need to be disabled, or there may be some other workaround.

The workaround may involve wiring the B2B through the distribution/fusebox instead of directly between the batteries.

Is it necessary to disable the split charger if the B2B is wired directly from the cab battery to the leisure battery?

 

[Pausim]

Is it necessary to disable the split charger if the B2B is wired directly from the cab battery to the leisure battery?

Yes it will not work properly if you leave the split charge relay operating.

 

[autorouter]

Is it necessary to disable the split charger if the B2B is wired directly from the cab battery to the leisure battery?

In a word, yes. The problem is, the split charge relay provides a directly wired path from the starter to leisure battery. This has the same effect as a wire between the input and output of the B2B. That would make the B2B output voltage about the same as the input, so it is operating like a split charge relay, not a B2B.

There are various possibilities for disabling it - disconnecting the input or output wire, disconnect the relay trigger supply, or even remove the relay if it's a plug-in type.

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[Pausim]

I put a normally closed relay on the connection between the 12V distribution unit and the engine battery. For most of the time the relay keeps the engine battery connected as before so everything works as normal. As soon as the B2B starts working the relay is triggered and opens so that the distribution unit is disconnected from the engine battery and the unwanted loop is broken.

 

[MisterB]

I put a normally closed relay on the connection between the 12V distribution unit and the engine battery. For most of the time the relay keeps the engine battery connected as before so everything works as normal. As soon as the B2B starts working the relay is triggered and opens so that the distribution unit is disconnected from the engine battery and the unwanted loop is broken.

So the 12v 'stuff' still operates as you're driving along and when the engine stops (and alternator) then it all just switches over to leisure battery supply? Have you done this on an Adria with the NE237

 

[Pausim]

So the 12v 'stuff' still operates as you're driving along and when the engine stops (and alternator) then it all just switches over to leisure battery supply? Have you done this on an Adria with the NE237

No it switches over when the engine is running and no I have not done this to an Adria.

In my setup everything is left as normal when the engine is not running. The engine battery is only disconnected from the leisure battery when the engine, alternator and B2B are running. With the CBE set up in my Carthago this means the trickle charge to the engine battery is maintained when on EHU. It also does not affect the 12V operation of the fridge when the engine is running because this is still powered by the CBE distribution unit. There is still 12V throughout the system it is just that one side of the new relay has 12V supplied by the engine battery and the other side 12V supplied by the leisure battery. Both batteries are being charged by their own systems, one by the engine directly and the other by the B2B. If the two systems are linked neither can work properly.

 

[Pausim]

Perhaps this diagram will help. If the CBE split charge relay (or other relay) closes when the engine starts the current can flow round in a circle defeating the purpose of the B2B. I have cured the problem by inserting another relay where the green star is shown which opens when the split charge relay closes. Both relays are triggered at the same time by the D+ signal.

 

[treblid]

I think you are are going to cause dangerous problems if people follow that over simplified diagram. You need to show the 12V distribution control box!

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[Peter Clark]

Looking for some help if possible I want to fit a B2B victron charger into my Adria Matrix 670sl to feed my two 110amp leisure batteries, unfortunately at this moment I don't have lithium batteries, I have watched various videos on you tube so I know how to fit the unit , but no one can say if I need to alter the main control box or is it just a install and ready to go , can anyone help

Roadpro do a 40/60/80 B2B charger - choose the setting you want/need at the time:

NDS PSB 12V 40A/60A/80A Battery-to-Battery Charger. C8222

£474.81​

 

[David Bradley]

The Victron Orion B2B gets hot in operation, and then de-rates the output, plan on fitting some active cooling.

 

[Mike KP]

In a word, yes. The problem is, the split charge relay provides a directly wired path from the starter to leisure battery. This has the same effect as a wire between the input and output of the B2B. That would make the B2B output voltage about the same as the input, so it is operating like a split charge relay, not a B2B.

There are various possibilities for disabling it - disconnecting the input or output wire, disconnect the relay trigger supply, or even remove the relay if it's a plug-in type.

Ok, thanks for the replies, looks like I'll have to find a way to disable the split charge relay.

 

[Cliff Bryant]

The Victron Orion B2B gets hot in operation, and then de-rates the output, plan on fitting some active cooling.

Go to their website and check the serial number of your Victron B2B, some got very hot (mine did!) due to a design issue. Victron were offering free swap out via your dealer for a later version. That said I installed two 12V fans anyway to blow air over the fins of the heatsink to make sure. I've had no problems since with the replacement unit.

 

[treblid]

Personally I would avoid any device that needs active cooling. The Stirling B2B units have fans built in. They work OK but get noisy. (The 30A B2B only provides 25A at best).
Introducing any mechanical moving parts item into a electrical system introduces reliability issues.
Devices with correctly designed passive cooling will be best.

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