Advice required please re Carthago

[Just us on Tour]

Well at long last ,after nearly 12 months of waiting our new van has arrived in the UK pending delivery to me in September .Not being that technical I am confused about the electrical system ,so hopefully some of you experienced Carthago owners will put me straight. My current Autotrail has a very easy to use Sargent system which allows me to select charging for either the cab or Hab batteries when connected to the mains Or I can select a “smart “ button which means the system sorts its self out and selects which battery it needs to charge ….this is also the case if parked up without mains just relying on my solar panel. ( we use mostly sites with EHU )

So Question 1 please
How does the Carthago system work ? The dealer tells me the factory fitted charger on the Carthago only trickle charges the cab battery and therefore they recommend I have a “Battery Master” fitted. However they say this will only trickle charge the cab battery from the Hab batteries. If This being the case when parked up at home and plugged into the mains how do I keep the engine battery charged ? Do I have to continually charge Hab batteries to allow a trickle charge to cab . They have quoted me over £300 to fit a battery master which seems a lot ?? Incidentally we do have the upgraded charger from the factory which I think was a few hundred pounds??

2nd Question please

We have two factory fitted TVs. However we are now told the bedroom tv does not have an Ariel as standard . The dealer has told me it cannot be connected to the existing Ariel that is used for the lounge tv , we have to have another separate Ariel fitted to the roof ……..so that will give us 2 tv Ariel’s ?….is that normal ? Another Ariel is in excess of £300 fitted .

3rd Question please .
The dealer is fitting two 120 watt solar panels which we are told will charge the Hab batteries when not connected to the mains . We are told there is no selection process on the Carthago control panel , just leave them alone and they will do their own thing ! Is this right ? With my Autotrail I can select if I want my solar to charge Hab or Cab batteries or select Smart and let it sort itself out .

The factory fit Carthago electrics only seem to do half the job and it would appear I have to spend almost another £1k to get the basic functions that my Autotrail has .

Any help or advice greatly appreciated, I am very confused ! Thank you guys .

 

[BusyBuilder]

Check out Lenny on here, nodding the gin palace.

 

[funflair]

Re question 1, a trickle charge is enough to keep the starter battery "tip top" so as you say this would be from the charger when plugged in but when not plugged in you won't be getting that trickle charge so this is where the Battery Master comes in as it trickle charges from the leisure battery.

 

[MichaelT]

Battery master is about 70 quid to buy and easy to fit or speak with offgrid RogerIvy . It will trickle charge the engine battery from hab battery which will be charged by your solar panels. We don't have a mains charger and never use EHU and all batteries fully charged with similar set up albeit bigger panels but on a carthago.

Who is your dealer?

No idea about TV as we only have a lounge one.

 

[Just us on Tour]

Re question 1, a trickle charge is enough to keep the starter battery "tip top" so as you say this would be from the charger when plugged in but when not plugged in you won't be getting that trickle charge so this is where the Battery Master comes in as it trickle charges from the leisure battery.

Yes , we do have two 120watt solar being fitted by the dealer.

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[funflair]

Yes , we do have two 120watt solar being fitted by the dealer.

Ah yes I read a bit further so then deleted the question, you were too quick for me

Re the TV question I find that we are using data a lot more for watching TV, we do have an aerial but its inside so not brilliant but the advantage of data and smart tv or streaming stick (roku) is that you can watch the programme at anytime, like 6 o clock news at 6:20 when you get in.

 

[Just us on Tour]

Check out Lenny on here, nodding the gin palace.

Yes thank you Lenny has a wealth of knowledge on here .

 

[Pausim]

Question 1. The CBE mains charger on a Carthago looks after both batteries. The main charge goes to the leisure battery and there is a trickle charge to the engine battery which is all it needs. You only need a battery master if you want the engine battery charged when you are not on mains and not driving. The Carthago is a straight forward system that doesn’t complicate matters by providing an unnecessary change over switch.
Note. You will have a smart alternator which may leave the engine battery at about 12.3V, this is normal and how it is designed to work.

I have never bothered with a second tv and don’t have solar, I use an extra B2B and bigger battery for off grid use, so can’t help with questions 2 and 3.

I am a former Carthago owner and now have a Malibu Van and think both are great motorhomes. Enjoy your new Carthago. As already said Lenny HB may be able to help with your unanswered questions.

 

[Just us on Tour]

Question 1. The CBE mains charger on a Carthago looks after both batteries. The main charge goes to the leisure battery and there is a trickle charge to the engine battery which is all it needs. You only need a battery master if you want the engine battery charged when you are not on mains and not driving. The Carthago is a straight forward system that doesn’t complicate matters by providing an unnecessary change over switch.
Note. You will have a smart alternator which may leave the engine battery at about 12.3V, this is normal and how it is designed to work.

I have never bothered with a second tv and don’t have solar, I use an extra B2B and bigger battery for off grid use, so can’t help with questions 2 and 3.

I am a former Carthago owner and now have a Malibu Van and think both are great motorhomes. Enjoy your new Carthago. As already said Lenny HB may be able to help with your unanswered questions.

Thank you Pausim
That makes things a lot clearer . As my van is always on mains hook up at home and mains hook up on site , from the sound of it I shouldn’t need a “battery master “

 

[Pausim]

Thank you Pausim
That makes things a lot clearer . As my van is always on mains hook up at home and mains hook up on site , from the sound of it I shouldn’t need a “battery master “

I think you will be fine without it on mains hook up.

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[Vansflyer]

Congratulations on the new van.
What base vehicle is it on? The Mercedes based ones can be very heavy on the cab battery when not in use so when not on EHU the cab battery can go flat. So if you do places without hook up for a few days a Battery Master type device can be very useful. £300 supply and fit is expensive...
If the van has a oem satellite system it will feed the second TV, the factory fitted aerial never does. I split the aerial feed in ours under the squab seat and ran a cable to the second TV across the bathroom cupboards but it depends on the layout if that is practical to do or not.

 

[TinaLes]

Hi just us on tour.
I think you dealer hasnt explained things as they actually are as standard on Carthagos.
There normally is no need to pay for a larger CBE charger, ours came with a CBE 16amp switchable between different battery types like AGM, Gel, Lead acid etc, but not Lithium. On mains hook up it will charge both the hab and the starter battery no problem.
You only need a Battery Master to take a trickle charge From The Hab Batteries to The Starter Battery when the solar panels are providing a charge, as they normally will not charge the starter battery and the hab at the same time. Depending on which MPPT solar charger your dealer fits, hopefully a good one like a Victron with Bluetooth so that you can see the state of charge on your mobile phone, however there are some that charge both the hab and the starter battery, but we chose to fit the Victron to tie up with all the other upgrades using "The Blue Stuff" ie Victron.
Our van came with one 80amp Excel Gel Battery, so we added another wired in parallel, with 200 watts of solar keeping them topped up in summer. I will upgrade to Lithium when the Gels give up, but they have performed well thus far.

As for the TV''s we have taken ours out, as we use a laptop steaming channels from either a Mi Fi unit, or hotspot mobile phone which we can set up anywhere inside/outside the van in summer, great with its UHD screen and Bose Mini Bluetooth Speaker when needed for extra depth. We could stream from the laptop to the TV using a HDMI cable but the 16 inch laptop screen does us a treat, plus we can see e-mails as they arrive.

Les

 

[Lenny HB]

With the charging of the starter battery the CBE distribution unit will charge the starter battery all the time the leisure battery is above 13.6v so it will work most of the time you have mains or solar charging.
However it is advisable to fit a Batterymaster or Ablemail to ensure the starter battery gets topped particularly when you have a smart alternator which leaves the battery in a low state of charge. Essential if you have a Lithium leisure battery as they float at 13.5v.

Also don't know what head unit you have but if it's the Pioneer you really do need a Batterymaster or Ablemail as if you forget to turn the media switch off at night you can end up with a flat starter battery in the morning.

For us bedrooms are for sleeping in don't have Tv's in them.
Haven't got a clue but don't believe everything your dealer tells you. When it comes to Motorhome dealers UK dealers are the most uninformed you could ever meet.
FYI I have come across a lot of Hymer owners who have paid loads of money to dealers to fit an aerial that wasn't needed as the dealer didn't have a clue that the van had a built in aerial.

We have had our van a year now probably used the TV off the aerial a couple of times we stream nearly everything.

You are the first person I've heard who has good words for a Sargent unit.
With German vans you pay for build quality and everything else is extra.
With Brit vans they throw in all the extras but build quality suffers.

 

[MichaelT]

For us bedrooms are for sleeping in don't have Tv's in them.

Only sleeping?

 

[Just us on Tour]

Hi just us on tour.
I think you dealer hasnt explained things as they actually are as standard on Carthagos.
There normally is no need to pay for a larger CBE charger, ours came with a CBE 16amp switchable between different battery types like AGM, Gel, Lead acid etc, but not Lithium. On mains hook up it will charge both the hab and the starter battery no problem.
You only need a Battery Master to take a trickle charge From The Hab Batteries to The Starter Battery when the solar panels are providing a charge, as they normally will not charge the starter battery and the hab at the same time. Depending on which MPPT solar charger your dealer fits, hopefully a good one like a Victron with Bluetooth so that you can see the state of charge on your mobile phone, however there are some that charge both the hab and the starter battery, but we chose to fit the Victron to tie up with all the other upgrades using "The Blue Stuff" ie Victron.
Our van came with one 80amp Excel Gel Battery, so we added another wired in parallel, with 200 watts of solar keeping them topped up in summer. I will upgrade to Lithium when the Gels give up, but they have performed well thus far.

As for the TV''s we have taken ours out, as we use a laptop steaming channels from either a Mi Fi unit, or hotspot mobile phone which we can set up anywhere inside/outside the van in summer, great with its UHD screen and Bose Mini Bluetooth Speaker when needed for extra depth. We could stream from the laptop to the TV using a HDMI cable but the 16 inch laptop screen does us a treat, plus we can see e-mails as they arrive.

Les

Thank you les . Some great points there . I think you are right re my dealer . They seemed a bit vague when I asked about the electrics . I am not in anyway technical, however I do understand the basic concept of how a system may work …. The problem is my dealer doesn’t seem to understand or explain it very well. I am sure at handover they will have a technician explain more in depth . Problem being , by then I may have already agreed to dealer fit extra gizmo’s that I don’t really need ! lol thank you for your input .

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[Miggs]

Question 2: I cannot think of any reason why you couldn't simply fit a 'Y' splitter to the TV aerial cable and run a feed to the second TV. Alternatively fit one of the numerous aerial boosters which have one signal in and two or more signals out.

 

[TinaLes]

Thank you les . Some great points there . I think you are right re my dealer . They seemed a bit vague when I asked about the electrics . I am not in anyway technical, however I do understand the basic concept of how a system may work …. The problem is my dealer doesn’t seem to understand or explain it very well. I am sure at handover they will have a technician explain more in depth . Problem being , by then I may have already agreed to dealer fit extra gizmo’s that I don’t really need ! lol thank you for your input .

You will need to change the CBE Battery Charger, if and when you upgrade to Lithium as there is not normally an ideal charging setting/profile for Lithium batteries, However see how you go with 2 Gels fitted, on campsites/Aires with EHU no problems, however "Off Grid" with TVs running and charging phones etc you wont get very long in dull weather.
You wont be able to use your coffee machine on 2 Gel Batteries much if you have one when travelling "Off Grid" but upgrading from Gels is a whole different ballgame involving B2B chargers, and Lithium Batteries, inverters 12v to 240V and mains chargers.
We keep things simple and use Gaslow re-fillable gas bottles when off grid for hot water, heating & Fridge Freezer, hob for coffees.
Lenny HB will be along soon, as he is normally not an early riser to hopefully confirm a few things.
Les

 

[Lenny HB]

Question 2: I cannot think of any reason why you couldn't simply fit a 'Y' splitter to the TV aerial cable and run a feed to the second TV. Alternatively fit one of the numerous aerial boosters which have one signal in and two or more signals out.

Not a good idea you will lose 50% of the signal unless you fit an active splitter.

 

[Vansflyer]

Question 2: I cannot think of any reason why you couldn't simply fit a 'Y' splitter to the TV aerial cable and run a feed to the second TV. Alternatively fit one of the numerous aerial boosters which have one signal in and two or more signals out.

You are correct but it needs to be a "power passing" splitter on both legs as the OEM aerial requires 5v to work. Most of the "boosters" don't pass or give 5v out.

 

[AdrianChen]

Well at long last ,after nearly 12 months of waiting our new van has arrived in the UK pending delivery to me in September .Not being that technical I am confused about the electrical system ,so hopefully some of you experienced Carthago owners will put me straight. My current Autotrail has a very easy to use Sargent system which allows me to select charging for either the cab or Hab batteries when connected to the mains Or I can select a “smart “ button which means the system sorts its self out and selects which battery it needs to charge ….this is also the case if parked up without mains just relying on my solar panel. ( we use mostly sites with EHU )

So Question 1 please
How does the Carthago system work ? The dealer tells me the factory fitted charger on the Carthago only trickle charges the cab battery and therefore they recommend I have a “Battery Master” fitted. However they say this will only trickle charge the cab battery from the Hab batteries. If This being the case when parked up at home and plugged into the mains how do I keep the engine battery charged ? Do I have to continually charge Hab batteries to allow a trickle charge to cab . They have quoted me over £300 to fit a battery master which seems a lot ?? Incidentally we do have the upgraded charger from the factory which I think was a few hundred pounds??

2nd Question please

We have two factory fitted TVs. However we are now told the bedroom tv does not have an Ariel as standard . The dealer has told me it cannot be connected to the existing Ariel that is used for the lounge tv , we have to have another separate Ariel fitted to the roof ……..so that will give us 2 tv Ariel’s ?….is that normal ? Another Ariel is in excess of £300 fitted .

3rd Question please .
The dealer is fitting two 120 watt solar panels which we are told will charge the Hab batteries when not connected to the mains . We are told there is no selection process on the Carthago control panel , just leave them alone and they will do their own thing ! Is this right ? With my Autotrail I can select if I want my solar to charge Hab or Cab batteries or select Smart and let it sort itself out .

The factory fit Carthago electrics only seem to do half the job and it would appear I have to spend almost another £1k to get the basic functions that my Autotrail has .

Any help or advice greatly appreciated, I am very confused ! Thank you guys .

Q1 - As per Lenny HB would just add that the main panel would need to be switched on for the CBE system to charge the Cab battery from the leisure battery as well as the leisure being above 13.6v, we do have an Ablemail fitted for the times the van is in storage.

Q2 - We had the same issue with the TV ariels, we had an extra one fitted - funnily enough the Carthago one works better, perhaps because of its ground plane - I cant see why they cant be joined, so I'm going to try it on our next trip.

Q3 If the panel is switched on when the leisure battery hits 13.6v the solar will effectively charge the start battery as well automatically, as would an Ablemail/BM if fitted.

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[MichaelT]

Q1 - As per Lenny HB would just add that the main panel would need to be switched on for the CBE system to charge the Cab battery from the leisure battery as well as the leisure being above 13.6v, we do have an Ablemail fitted for the times the van is in storage.

Q2 - We had the same issue with the TV ariels, we had an extra one fitted - funnily enough the Carthago one works better, perhaps because of its ground plane - I cant see why they cant be joined, so I'm going to try it on our next trip.

Q3 If the panel is switched on when the leisure battery hits 13.6v the solar will effectively charge the start battery as well automatically, as would an Ablemail/BM if fitted.

We never turn our 12v off, heard stories they fail if you do.

 

[DT]

No idea on Carthago but our second tv works great 90% of the time with a £30 fire stick.

 

[Just us on Tour]

With the charging of the starter battery the CBE distribution unit will charge the starter battery all the time the leisure battery is above 13.6v so it will work most of the time you have mains or solar charging.
However it is advisable to fit a Batterymaster or Ablemail to ensure the starter battery gets topped particularly when you have a smart alternator which leaves the battery in a low state of charge. Essential if you have a Lithium leisure battery as they float at 13.5v.

Also don't know what head unit you have but if it's the Pioneer you really do need a Batterymaster or Ablemail as if you forget to turn the media switch off at night you can end up with a flat starter battery in the morning.

For us bedrooms are for sleeping in don't have Tv's in them.
Haven't got a clue but don't believe everything your dealer tells you. When it comes to Motorhome dealers UK dealers are the most uninformed you could ever meet.
FYI I have come across a lot of Hymer owners who have paid loads of money to dealers to fit an aerial that wasn't needed as the dealer didn't have a clue that the van had a built in aerial.

We have had our van a year now probably used the TV off the aerial a couple of times we stream nearly everything.

You are the first person I've heard who has good words for a Sargent unit.
With German vans you pay for build quality and everything else is extra.
With Brit vans they throw in all the extras but build quality suffers.

Morning Lenny , yes totally agree . The dealers are not best informed that’s for sure.
Our Autotrail Sargent unit has not missed a beat ! Both tv work of the same Ariel and tune in at the touch of a button . Our wi fi also provides us with Netflix and all the other streaming options. I guess I am trying to make sure we don’t lose any functionality with the Carthago .
Fingers crossed !

 

[manners]

We never turn our 12v off, heard stories they fail if you do.

We turn ours off every time we go out and also before starting the van, never had an issue in eight years with six to seven months use per year. I did read on the German Carthago forum that some attributed panel failure to starting the van with it turned on.

 

[Deadloss]

Our C-Line came with a bedroom TV - and no aerial. Hard to believe insn't it? So we also had to splash out on getting another aerial fitted. With the benefit of hindsight based on how much we use it, I wouldn't bother now and just use the "smart" functions as everywhere we've been we've alwasy been able to get mobile internet.

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[Just us on Tour]

Question 2: I cannot think of any reason why you couldn't simply fit a 'Y' splitter to the TV aerial cable and run a feed to the second TV. Alternatively fit one of the numerous aerial boosters which have one signal in and two or more signals out.

Absolutely, I totally agree . My dealer is saying it can’t be done . I am going to challenge that today and ask him why ? To be honest I can’t even see any type of Ariel on the roof ?

 

[Just us on Tour]

Our C-Line came with a bedroom TV - and no aerial. Hard to believe insn't it? So we also had to splash out on getting another aerial fitted. With the benefit of hindsight based on how much we use it, I wouldn't bother now and just use the "smart" functions as everywhere we've been we've alwasy been able to get mobile internet.

Hi Deadloss
We feel the same . Knowing now there is no Ariel we wish we hadn’t paid out for the bedroom tv option . Sometime both me and err indoors do like to watch different programs!
So can you get the normal free view channels on your bedroom tv via Wi Fi ?
Do you now have 2 tv Ariel’s on the roof ? Are they both the same ?

 

[ChrisL]

Absolutely, I totally agree . My dealer is saying it can’t be done . I am going to challenge that today and ask him why ? To be honest I can’t even see any type of Ariel on the roof ?

I wouldn't bother with an ariel, I have a satellite and don't use that either, I stream everything using mifi devices with an EE sim in one and a Tesco one in another as a backup, I've never found myself in a place where one or the other didn't work.

 

[TinaLes]

There is usually an DVB-T roof Ariel fitted to all Carthago's as standard, this normally feeds the front TV and the head unit Radio but its not very good for DAB radio. We now stream DAB radio via Apple Play using our mobile phone.
As for the rear TV, an Amazon Fire Stick or similar will link up to your wi fi if you have a Mi Fi unit fitted, or even mobile phone to stream TV channels, however ours needed to have a permanent 12Vdc to set up as the feed from the TV wasnt strong enough as confirmed by a screen warning on the TV.
Les

 

[Just us on Tour]

I wouldn't bother with an ariel, I have a satellite and don't use that either, I stream everything using mifi devices with an EE sim in one and a Tesco one in another as a backup, I've never found myself in a place where one or the other didn't work.

Thanks Chris
Do you know if the tuner part of the tv are in the cupboard above the lounge tv ? So in essence are the screens just monitors ? I am guessing the factory fit Ariel is connected in that cupboard , hence they can’t get the cable to the bedroom which is why the dealer says we need another Ariel ? Can I get bbc 1 and itv using mi Fi ?
Same as you I use an EE sim in a mi Fi router and that is fine for Netflix / Amazon but not sure about ITV channels etc ?