Attaching Fiat alloy to spare wheel carrier?

[andyelbac]

I've just bitten the bullet and installed the underchassis spare wheel carrier to our Ducato based Burstner Lyseo TD680G. I've gone for a spare steel wheel as it is slightly lighter but also significantly cheaper than a spare Fiat 16" alloy. The fitting process was reasonably straightforward with the holes already in the chassis exactly where they were meant to be. I did need to open up the holes in the winch assy element as they didn't quite line up with the holes in the chassis but all in all, without the additional work, it would have taken 15 mins tops to fit the carrier (8 bolts). I also found that the process of attaching the spare steel was relatively easy and quick (I know,I won't be saying that when trying to remove it in the dark and wet with a flat tyre on the rear) but I was pleasantly surprised how much room there was under the rear of the van (the waste tank being forward of the rear axle). Now to my question; In the event of a flat I will be looking to attach the removed Fiat alloy to the carrier until I can get to a tyre centre.
The Fiat handbook says to attach the winch to the alloy adaptor plate first and then attach the adaptor plate to the top of the inside of the alloy by screwing three nuts (they come with the adaptor plate) through the front of the alloy into the adaptor plate sitting on top of the inner hub (with me so far?). So unlike the steel spare the winch is not fitted through the central hub on the alloy but sits on top of it. I'm trying to imagine attempting to screw three studs through the front of the alloy into the adaptor plate on the other side of a 30kg tire when the most you could probably angle the wheel at is 45 deg (if you're lucky). Has anyone ever done this and was it easier than it sounds?

 

[tribalbrit]

If you stick with the steel spare be aware that you may need shorter studs when fitting as a replacement.

 

[Silverman]

If you carry on winding out after the spare has touched the ground, there is enough slack to pull the wheel clear of the rear of the van.

 

[Guffy60]

Carefull when you do slide it in, I did that and scratched the face of the alloy.

this was when first fitting it as a spare, not doing it at the side of the road.

 

[andyelbac]

If you stick with the steel spare be aware that you may need shorter studs when fitting as a replacement.

To be honest I have read so many threads on this. It seems 50/50 as to whether you can use the allloy studs or not. According to some threads Fiat themselves say you can. Certainly the handbook is quiet on thus. Can I ask if you have personal experience of trying to fit a steel spare using the alloy studs or are you just quoting what you've read elsewhere, as I am completely confused on the whole subject!

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[andyelbac]

If you carry on winding out after the spare has touched the ground, there is enough slack to pull the wheel clear of the rear of the van.

Now that I didn't now! I will give that a go when I pop up to the storage area next. I never imagined the cable would be that long. If that works then problem solved!

 

[andyelbac]

Carefull when you do slide it in, I did that and scratched the face of the alloy.

this was when first fitting it as a spare, not doing it at the side of the road.

Hmmm. I ran a flat edge against the alloy and tyre as fitted in anticipation of this and the flat edge cleared the face of the alloy so I thought this wouldn't be a problem. Thinking now, it makes sense with the tyre deflated the alloy face will sit higher than the tyre. I think the only solution would be to slide a piece of old carpet underneath or perhaps even better, I noticed online you can buy low profile dollies. Made from 18mm mdf, they only weigh 1.5kg, have swivel casters on each corner and can carry 200kg. Plus they come in at just 118mm high and have a cut out each end so can he hung in MH garage. I figure if I add some self adhesive foam to the top I could slide the dolly under the carrier, drop the spare onto it, drag it out (add a dog lead to the cut out to make it easier to pull) then drop the alloy on top of the foam protected face and push it back under the carrier. The dolly is available from safetyliftinggear.com, model no. TT4001CA and is currently selling for just £14.02. By the way, did you have any issues attaching the adaptor plate studs through the alloy?

 

[tribalbrit]

To be honest I have read so many threads on this. It seems 50/50 as to whether you can use the allloy studs or not. According to some threads Fiat themselves say you can. Certainly the handbook is quiet on thus. Can I ask if you have personal experience of trying to fit a steel spare using the alloy studs or are you just quoting what you've read elsewhere, as I am completely confused on the whole subject!

Not a fiat but a VW Crafter, fitted with Alloy's.
Got up for work 7am one morning to discover a flat tyre, half asleep and in a hurry I quickly jacked up the van and fitted the steel spare, after much hammering to remove the original which was reluctant to come off.
After fitting drove off to hear an almighty crash. I had inadvertently fitted the original bolts which then ripped off the break drum, pads and associated parts and made a right mess. Day off work new parts and new studs cost me around £600 so yes I have experience. Be careful!

 

[treblid]

You need one of these plates for a alloy wheel:

And it fits like this:

 

[treblid]

Here are the parts: https://coastalmotorhomes.co.uk/fit...en-relay-wheel-mount-bracket-15-16-06-on.html

Or

Fits Fiat Ducato Peugeot Boxer Citroen Relay 15"+16" Wheel Mounting Bracket 06-On OE

15"+16" Wheel Mounting Bracket Genuine Fiat OE Part. Fits Fiat Ducato, Peugeot Boxer And Citroen Relay 2006 Onwards. For Vehicles With 15" or 16" Wheels With PCD 5 X 118.

coastalmotorhomes.co.uk

And the bolts which I can't find at the moment.

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[BouncyBoatFolk]

I've just bitten the bullet and installed the underchassis spare wheel carrier to our Ducato based Burstner Lyseo TD680G. I've gone for a spare steel wheel as it is slightly lighter but also significantly cheaper than a spare Fiat 16" alloy. The fitting process was reasonably straightforward with the holes already in the chassis exactly where they were meant to be. I did need to open up the holes in the winch assy element as they didn't quite line up with the holes in the chassis but all in all, without the additional work, it would have taken 15 mins tops to fit the carrier (8 bolts). I also found that the process of attaching the spare steel was relatively easy and quick (I know,I won't be saying that when trying to remove it in the dark and wet with a flat tyre on the rear) but I was pleasantly surprised how much room there was under the rear of the van (the waste tank being forward of the rear axle). Now to my question; In the event of a flat I will be looking to attach the removed Fiat alloy to the carrier until I can get to a tyre centre.
The Fiat handbook says to attach the winch to the alloy adaptor plate first and then attach the adaptor plate to the top of the inside of the alloy by screwing three nuts (they come with the adaptor plate) through the front of the alloy into the adaptor plate sitting on top of the inner hub (with me so far?). So unlike the steel spare the winch is not fitted through the central hub on the alloy but sits on top of it. I'm trying to imagine attempting to screw three studs through the front of the alloy into the adaptor plate on the other side of a 30kg tire when the most you could probably angle the wheel at is 45 deg (if you're lucky). Has anyone ever done this and was it easier than it sounds?

Would a large holdall to put the deflated spare in, then temporarily stored in the van be an easier option for you?
Mike.

 

[andyelbac]

Would a large holdall to put the deflated spare in, then temporarily stored in the van be an easier option for you?
Mike.

Thought about it Mike, but when I'm carrying our 125cc scooter there's no room in the garage and the wheel (which seems so much bigger off the vehicle) would put a serious crimp in the living space of the van. I'm not even sure I have what a space 24" inches wide in the hab area to lay it down in. But if the cable really does extend far enough to remove the spare from under the van before removing the winch attachment, then I won't have any issues attaching the alloy. Am going to give it a try in the next-door couple of weeks.

 

[andyelbac]

Here are the parts: https://coastalmotorhomes.co.uk/fit...en-relay-wheel-mount-bracket-15-16-06-on.html

Or

Fits Fiat Ducato Peugeot Boxer Citroen Relay 15"+16" Wheel Mounting Bracket 06-On OE

15"+16" Wheel Mounting Bracket Genuine Fiat OE Part. Fits Fiat Ducato, Peugeot Boxer And Citroen Relay 2006 Onwards. For Vehicles With 15" or 16" Wheels With PCD 5 X 118.

coastalmotorhomes.co.uk

And the bolts which I can't find at the moment.

Thanks. I actually already have the adaptor plate and nuts (got them off a Funster here), but thanks.

 

[andyelbac]

Not a fiat but a VW Crafter, fitted with Alloy's.
Got up for work 7am one morning to discover a flat tyre, half asleep and in a hurry I quickly jacked up the van and fitted the steel spare, after much hammering to remove the original which was reluctant to come off.
After fitting drove off to hear an almighty crash. I had inadvertently fitted the original bolts which then ripped off the break drum, pads and associated parts and made a right mess. Day off work new parts and new studs cost me around £600 so yes I have experience. Be careful!

I think I might just guess my local Fiat service centre a call!

 

[BouncyBoatFolk]

Thought about it Mike, but when I'm carrying our 125cc scooter there's no room in the garage and the wheel (which seems so much bigger off the vehicle) would put a serious crimp in the living space of the van. I'm not even sure I have what a space 24" inches wide in the hab area to lay it down in. But if the cable really does extend far enough to remove the spare from under the van before removing the winch attachment, then I won't have any issues attaching the alloy. Am going to give it a try in the next-door couple of weeks.

Do you have cycle rack on the back, again as a temporary measure? I strap a kayak across ours sometimes.
Mike.

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[Jimbohorlicks]

If you carry on winding out after the spare has touched the ground, there is enough slack to pull the wheel clear of the rear of the van.

And before you wind down the wheel put a rug or similar under the wheel so you can pull it out easily from under the van.

 

[Guffy60]

Hmmm. I ran a flat edge against the alloy and tyre as fitted in anticipation of this and the flat edge cleared the face of the alloy so I thought this wouldn't be a problem. Thinking now, it makes sense with the tyre deflated the alloy face will sit higher than the tyre. I think the only solution would be to slide a piece of old carpet underneath or perhaps even better, I noticed online you can buy low profile dollies. Made from 18mm mdf, they only weigh 1.5kg, have swivel casters on each corner and can carry 200kg. Plus they come in at just 118mm high and have a cut out each end so can he hung in MH garage. I figure if I add some self adhesive foam to the top I could slide the dolly under the carrier, drop the spare onto it, drag it out (add a dog lead to the cut out to make it easier to pull) then drop the alloy on top of the foam protected face and push it back under the carrier. The dolly is available from safetyliftinggear.com, model no. TT4001CA and is currently selling for just £14.02. By the way, did you have any issues attaching the adaptor plate studs through the alloy?

No, and removing the wheel when van sold in November was relatively easy.

 

[Jeff one]

I've just bitten the bullet and installed the underchassis spare wheel carrier to our Ducato based Burstner Lyseo TD680G. I've gone for a spare steel wheel as it is slightly lighter but also significantly cheaper than a spare Fiat 16" alloy. The fitting process was reasonably straightforward with the holes already in the chassis exactly where they were meant to be. I did need to open up the holes in the winch assy element as they didn't quite line up with the holes in the chassis but all in all, without the additional work, it would have taken 15 mins tops to fit the carrier (8 bolts). I also found that the process of attaching the spare steel was relatively easy and quick (I know,I won't be saying that when trying to remove it in the dark and wet with a flat tyre on the rear) but I was pleasantly surprised how much room there was under the rear of the van (the waste tank being forward of the rear axle). Now to my question; In the event of a flat I will be looking to attach the removed Fiat alloy to the carrier until I can get to a tyre centre.
The Fiat handbook says to attach the winch to the alloy adaptor plate first and then attach the adaptor plate to the top of the inside of the alloy by screwing three nuts (they come with the adaptor plate) through the front of the alloy into the adaptor plate sitting on top of the inner hub (with me so far?). So unlike the steel spare the winch is not fitted through the central hub on the alloy but sits on top of it. I'm trying to imagine attempting to screw three studs through the front of the alloy into the adaptor plate on the other side of a 30kg tire when the most you could probably angle the wheel at is 45 deg (if you're lucky). Has anyone ever done this and was it easier than it sounds?

Put the wheel in the until repaired,,

 

[andyelbac]

Do you have cycle rack on the back, again as a temporary measure? I strap a kayak across ours sometimes.
Mike.

Unfortunately not as its never been needed. We only ever take push bikes if we are stopping at sites where there are plenty of bike trails (New Forest etc) in which case we leave the scooter at home and stick the bikes in the rear garage (my partner won't ride a bike on the open road). I'm quite happy with the idea of mounting a flat alloy under the chassis now although will feel more confident ince I've tested for myself how long the actual cable is on the carrier.

 

[VXman]

I've just bitten the bullet and installed the underchassis spare wheel carrier to our Ducato based Burstner Lyseo TD680G. I've gone for a spare steel wheel as it is slightly lighter but also significantly cheaper than a spare Fiat 16" alloy. The fitting process was reasonably straightforward with the holes already in the chassis exactly where they were meant to be. I did need to open up the holes in the winch assy element as they didn't quite line up with the holes in the chassis but all in all, without the additional work, it would have taken 15 mins tops to fit the carrier (8 bolts). I also found that the process of attaching the spare steel was relatively easy and quick (I know,I won't be saying that when trying to remove it in the dark and wet with a flat tyre on the rear) but I was pleasantly surprised how much room there was under the rear of the van (the waste tank being forward of the rear axle). Now to my question; In the event of a flat I will be looking to attach the removed Fiat alloy to the carrier until I can get to a tyre centre.
The Fiat handbook says to attach the winch to the alloy adaptor plate first and then attach the adaptor plate to the top of the inside of the alloy by screwing three nuts (they come with the adaptor plate) through the front of the alloy into the adaptor plate sitting on top of the inner hub (with me so far?). So unlike the steel spare the winch is not fitted through the central hub on the alloy but sits on top of it. I'm trying to imagine attempting to screw three studs through the front of the alloy into the adaptor plate on the other side of a 30kg tire when the most you could probably angle the wheel at is 45 deg (if you're lucky). Has anyone ever done this and was it easier than it sounds?

EDIT:

Yes I have done it and it is a faff and hard work. I wish I'd bought a steel spare.

As you have a steel spare why are you wanting to put the alloy underneath. Just shove it in your garage or inside the motorhome and take it to be fixed ASAP.

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[andyelbac]

EDIT:

Yes I have done it and it is a faff and hard work. I wish I'd bought a steel spare.

As you have a steel spare why are you wanting to put the alloy underneath. Just shove it in your garage or inside the motorhome and take it to be fixed ASAP.

View attachment 863170

As I mentioned in a previous post, I often run with a Scooter in the rear garage leaving no room for a spare. If I put it in the hab area, I either have to install anchoring points if I want to stand it up (30kg of rubber and steel trying to remove my head in the event of a sudden braking incident leaves me a tad concerned!) or if I lay it down then I have a bloody great wheel in the way until I can get rid of it. Besides, I can already hear the mutterings from She Who Must Be Obeyed "why is this bloody great wheel in my kitchen area when we have a carrier?"

 

[Mel+Tim]

I've just bitten the bullet and installed the underchassis spare wheel carrier to our Ducato based Burstner Lyseo TD680G. I've gone for a spare steel wheel as it is slightly lighter but also significantly cheaper than a spare Fiat 16" alloy. The fitting process was reasonably straightforward with the holes already in the chassis exactly where they were meant to be. I did need to open up the holes in the winch assy element as they didn't quite line up with the holes in the chassis but all in all, without the additional work, it would have taken 15 mins tops to fit the carrier (8 bolts). I also found that the process of attaching the spare steel was relatively easy and quick (I know,I won't be saying that when trying to remove it in the dark and wet with a flat tyre on the rear) but I was pleasantly surprised how much room there was under the rear of the van (the waste tank being forward of the rear axle). Now to my question; In the event of a flat I will be looking to attach the removed Fiat alloy to the carrier until I can get to a tyre centre.
The Fiat handbook says to attach the winch to the alloy adaptor plate first and then attach the adaptor plate to the top of the inside of the alloy by screwing three nuts (they come with the adaptor plate) through the front of the alloy into the adaptor plate sitting on top of the inner hub (with me so far?). So unlike the steel spare the winch is not fitted through the central hub on the alloy but sits on top of it. I'm trying to imagine attempting to screw three studs through the front of the alloy into the adaptor plate on the other side of a 30kg tire when the most you could probably angle the wheel at is 45 deg (if you're lucky). Has anyone ever done this and was it easier than it sounds?

Hi I would like to do exactly what you have done by having a carrier under the chassis, presently I have the steel spare in the garage and it takes up a lot of room, did you buy the kit directly off a fiat main dealer, or is it cheaper somewhere else.

 

[BouncyBoatFolk]

Normally some available on EBAY £70 ish, but no fixing kit.
Mike.

 

[treblid]

Just have a look here: https://coastalmotorhomes.co.uk/catalogsearch/result/?q=Spare wheel

 

[LARRY99]

There you go eBay item no 134832218667

Mine came with fixing bolts to the chassis

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[andyelbac]

Hi I would like to do exactly what you have done by having a carrier under the chassis, presently I have the steel spare in the garage and it takes up a lot of room, did you buy the kit directly off a fiat main dealer, or is it cheaper somewhere else.

As others have already mentioned, the kit is readily available on ebay (both Fiat and generic; I think Rhino do their own version) which is where I purchased mine (Helmerand Wheels and Tyres). It was a genuine Fiat part. I also got my steel rim from them on ebay. They also sell nearly new rims and tyres complete but unfortunately did not have my stud size at the time. I mentioned in my post I had to install 8 bolts (it's actually just 7). If it all lines up perfectly then I really cannot see it taking more than 15 mins to install. Just check underneath first ti make sure you MH manufacturer has not installed anything (like a water or waste tank behind the axle as it may prevent you installing the carrier. If you do install a steel spare and are running on alloys, bear in my Tribalbrit's story in one of the attached posts about using the alloy studs. I am risk averse so have ordered a set of studs specifically for steel rims. The downside is Fiat only sell in packs of two so you have to but 6 @£55....ouch! I've probably spent north of £420 for something I hope I don't have to use!!

 

[andyelbac]

Hi I would like to do exactly what you have done by having a carrier under the chassis, presently I have the steel spare in the garage and it takes up a lot of room, did you buy the kit directly off a fiat main dealer, or is it cheaper somewhere else.

An additional point. Mine was sold as new but I suspect it came off a new MH or PVC where the owner had decided to forgoe the spare and save the payload. As a result it didn't come with the two bolts which attach the winding element to the chassis, probably because I believe the Fiat kit is installed using two rivnuts just for these two bolts and I don't think they are easy to remove. You will need to purchase 2 x 10 x 110mm nuts and bolts to replace these (check the hole dia. first). It's an overkill fix as these two bolts are not carrying any weight, just the winding element which probably doesn't weigh more than 1kg.

 

[BouncyBoatFolk]

An additional point. Mine was sold as new but I suspect it came off a new MH or PVC where the owner had decided to forgoe the spare and save the payload. As a result it didn't come with the two bolts which attach the winding element to the chassis, probably because I believe the Fiat kit is installed using two rivnuts just for these two bolts and I don't think they are easy to remove. You will need to purchase 2 x 10 x 110mm nuts and bolts to replace these (check the hole dia. first). It's an overkill fix as these two bolts are not carrying any weight, just the winding element which probably doesn't weigh more than 1kg.

I would like to get our spare out of the garage underneath and further forward.Unfortunately, having had the garage support bars put in [ it gives the garage a 250kg rating for carrying our scooter], I'm going to need a cunning plan for the location of the winder housing so it's not to low, and remains accessible. Some custom home made plates will become a project later in the year when it's drier and warmer.
Mike.

 

[highwood122]

I've just bitten the bullet and installed the underchassis spare wheel carrier to our Ducato based Burstner Lyseo TD680G. I've gone for a spare steel wheel as it is slightly lighter but also significantly cheaper than a spare Fiat 16" alloy. The fitting process was reasonably straightforward with the holes already in the chassis exactly where they were meant to be. I did need to open up the holes in the winch assy element as they didn't quite line up with the holes in the chassis but all in all, without the additional work, it would have taken 15 mins tops to fit the carrier (8 bolts). I also found that the process of attaching the spare steel was relatively easy and quick (I know,I won't be saying that when trying to remove it in the dark and wet with a flat tyre on the rear) but I was pleasantly surprised how much room there was under the rear of the van (the waste tank being forward of the rear axle). Now to my question; In the event of a flat I will be looking to attach the removed Fiat alloy to the carrier until I can get to a tyre centre.
The Fiat handbook says to attach the winch to the alloy adaptor plate first and then attach the adaptor plate to the top of the inside of the alloy by screwing three nuts (they come with the adaptor plate) through the front of the alloy into the adaptor plate sitting on top of the inner hub (with me so far?). So unlike the steel spare the winch is not fitted through the central hub on the alloy but sits on top of it. I'm trying to imagine attempting to screw three studs through the front of the alloy into the adaptor plate on the other side of a 30kg tire when the most you could probably angle the wheel at is 45 deg (if you're lucky). Has anyone ever done this and was it easier than it sounds?

my fiat weinsberg 3500kg was supplied with alloys and a spare steel wheel, underslung like i think you are fitting, this is from new 2021.am now looking for information about these ( different) wheel bolts without any success yet for when i get a puncture

 

[highwood122]

I've just bitten the bullet and installed the underchassis spare wheel carrier to our Ducato based Burstner Lyseo TD680G. I've gone for a spare steel wheel as it is slightly lighter but also significantly cheaper than a spare Fiat 16" alloy. The fitting process was reasonably straightforward with the holes already in the chassis exactly where they were meant to be. I did need to open up the holes in the winch assy element as they didn't quite line up with the holes in the chassis but all in all, without the additional work, it would have taken 15 mins tops to fit the carrier (8 bolts). I also found that the process of attaching the spare steel was relatively easy and quick (I know,I won't be saying that when trying to remove it in the dark and wet with a flat tyre on the rear) but I was pleasantly surprised how much room there was under the rear of the van (the waste tank being forward of the rear axle). Now to my question; In the event of a flat I will be looking to attach the removed Fiat alloy to the carrier until I can get to a tyre centre.
The Fiat handbook says to attach the winch to the alloy adaptor plate first and then attach the adaptor plate to the top of the inside of the alloy by screwing three nuts (they come with the adaptor plate) through the front of the alloy into the adaptor plate sitting on top of the inner hub (with me so far?). So unlike the steel spare the winch is not fitted through the central hub on the alloy but sits on top of it. I'm trying to imagine attempting to screw three studs through the front of the alloy into the adaptor plate on the other side of a 30kg tire when the most you could probably angle the wheel at is 45 deg (if you're lucky). Has anyone ever done this and was it easier than it sounds?

i have a 2021 weinsberg on a fiat 3500kg chassis alloy wheels and an underslung spare steel wheel 2021 all fitted from new, i can,t find any mention of (different) bolts in the handbook when changing to a spare in the event of a puncture. anyone know anything i am missing please