Which MiMo 4x4 Antenna?

[Kannon Fodda]

Do I change my antenna and if so for what?

I have a PVC so need external aerial to get past Faraday cage effect. Current antenna is Poynting 4x4 MiMo (the puck shaped type with 4 LTE leads). I have decent (I think) Teltonika RUTX50 router, with current firmware. I use 500GB data Three network (similar pants connectivity on phone with Tesco (O2), in the problem locations). I've messed about with different APN and tried tricks to select specific master bands often excluding the really useless Three band 20 and flitted between allowing 3g/4g/5g.

I seem to like finding the places with poor mobile master connectivity, despite being in areas that I would have considered populated and thus having reasonable coverage. Earlier this year I used C&CC in Bowness on Windermere and barely had bandwidth for SD streaming. I've spent the last week on a THS in Whitby (YO21 1LA) and again can barely stream, indeed at times even radio bandwidth has fallen over.

I don't need superfast connectivity, but enough for reliable HD would be good. As I'm single, I do use the TV a lot in evenings (or more unhealthily end up in a pub).

Is the gain (or lack of) on the antenna the problem? The Poynting 4x4 puck Mimo has negligible, even negative gain at low frequencies (-0.5dBi 617-960MHz). As i see it the Poynting shark fin 3x17 does much better in the low frequencies
(2.2 dBi @ 617-960MHz). But what about Panorama? Their puck (dome) style 4x4 Mimo suggests 5.8dBi for @ 617-960MHz. Perhaps for higher frequencies the Poynting puck style wins?

Is gain the only thing to worry about (ignoring cost). How relevant might future frequencies be?

At Whitby i seem to have masts in range on 4g bands 1,3,20. Who knows if 5g exists, and if so is that actually 5g or just an upgraded 4g LTE. The tech naming and menus available on the Teltonika, cell mapper website, and such like really confuse.

My brain hurts.

 

[Terry]

No wonder you’re brain hurts Rob, just reading your post made my brain hurt. Whitby and surrounding area has always had a poor signal. Years ago only 3 had a half decent signal.

 

[Ditcha]

Good reception here at York THS ZTE MU5001

 

[Jev88]

Following as I have a Motorhome WiFi Huawei based box but want best aerial to take advantage of roof mount. The puc style offers zero improvement over no aerial so something amiss.

 

[fishplug]

I went to the signalchecker website which suggests you should have had decent coverage at Bowness with Three (but you should also have had decent coverage on the O2 phone). Perhaps other factors at play there.

Put the Whitby postcode into the site and it comes up with "may experience problems" for Three. Which seems exactly like what happened

If you're not using the GPS or WiFi elements of the RUTX-50 then the Poynting 4 x 4 should be just fine.

I've heard (but not experienced it myself with my Teltonika/Poynting setup) that sometimes swapping the cables round on the back of the router can give better performance for reasons someone explained and which made sense to me at the time and I have promptly forgotten.

Might be worth digging that info out and giving it a go, but you do also have to accept that ANY LTE router will have areas where you just won't get decent signal. Go to any big event or festival and the requests to the masts will just be saturated.

Weather can have an impact (especially on 5G) and so on.

I did a lot of research on antennas when I was choosing mine and it was mind-bending - especially in a moving vehicle. The Shark Fin is supposed to be marginally better in rural areas, the puck in urban ones... the truth is that I travel in both so...

What does make a difference is a good quality antenna v a £5 eBay special - but you've already got that.

Honestly, I think that unless there's something wrong with your setup or your wiring then you might be chasing rainbows.

Your only option for 'reliable' connectivity then becomes a Starlink.

I'm happy enough with my RUTX-50 - but there are places where it just doesn't get good signal. That's why I have some music and movies locally that don't require an internet connection.

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[RowleyBirkinQC]

This may/may not be helpful if you’ve not seen it…



From recollection, summary is puck for more urban use, fin for more remote use.

Perhaps do a comparison with someone with similar setup at Drax or another meet/rally? We have a RUTX50 with Poynting antenna and are going to Drax.

Disclaimer: I’m no telecoms engineer!

 

[GMLS]

Hi Rob.I have a similar Teltonika router but with the V3 shark fin aerial.Might be worth comparing the specs as we've always had good connections with an EE or 02 sim.

 

[boaterkeith]

I live on a steel narrowboat as well as having my PVC. A few years ago the 3 network was considered the best on canals with better coverage than the others. The service has got considerably worse since they have leased out so much to other providers. The go to now is EE. Since swapping, myself, from 3 to EE I have visited a couple of locations in my van where previously I had no connection on 3 and have had a decent service on EE. It may well not be your equipment that’s at fault but the service provider you are using. I recommend buying a pay as you go SIM for EE and give it a go before spending big money to no advantage.

 

[DBK]

I live on a steel narrowboat as well as having my PVC. A few years ago the 3 network was considered the best on canals with better coverage than the others. The service has got considerably worse since they have leased out so much to other providers. The go to now is EE. Since swapping, myself, from 3 to EE I have visited a couple of locations in my van where previously I had no connection on 3 and have had a decent service on EE. It may well not be your equipment that’s at fault but the service provider you are using. I recommend buying a pay as you go SIM for EE and give it a go before spending big money to no advantage.

I would echo this. My data sim is EE and generally it works better than my phone which was Vodafone although I've recently changed to Lebara but that's Vodafone too so it should be the same. On our last trip to France in a few places the EE sim couldn't get a good signal but the Vodafone card did. In France of course it is down to the local provider your card works with but it shows that changing provider can be helpful.

 

[fishplug]

This is part of the eternal dilemma in a moving vehicle though.

If you're setting it up at home you can test the best SIM card and then stick with it.

You can't really do that in a van (although the RUTX-50 can be set up with two SIMs and you can switch between them)

Three and Vodaphone are in the process of merging - so it will be interesting to see what that does to the network (and the pricing).

Oh, and there was mention of 3G in the original post. 3G is dead pretty much everywhere now. Rule it out of any considerations.

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[wfdTamar]

I started with a 2x2 Poynting puck with 2x2 router, then got a 4x4 modem/router, so added another 2x2 antenna on the roof. I didn't often have no signal (rural France mostly). The two antennas are different models so it could be they cover more frequencies.

For my Aussie Hymer I have the same, but the second 2x2 antenna is on a mast and directional. It is a bit of a hassle (10 minutes work) setting it up, but it is a big improvement when there's no signal on the roof mounted omnidirectional antenna.

I also use the same modem/router at home with a 4x4 directional antenna and that works really well (the transmitter mast is only a few km away and has line of sight. So if you need more I'd go for one of those, or at least a 2x2 directional.

 

[Pausim]

We use our iPhones with EE cards and simply move them around the Faraday Cage (Van) to get the best signal. Usually propped up in a plastic window works best. Occasionally a good 5g signal does not have a good download speed and turning 5g off forces the phone onto 4g with better results.

 

[wfdTamar]

Yes often a good 4G signal can be had where there's a poor 5G (or no 5G) and is perfectly fine for most uses. Forcing the modem to use 4G can work.

 

[Lenny HB]

I have a PVC so need external aerial to get past Faraday cage effect. Current antenna is Poynting 4x4 MiMo (the puck shaped type with 4 LTE leads).

Have a look at the specs on the Poynting site, l think your one is one of the later ones.
The early Pucks had very poor gain in the 900mhz band which is used a lot in rural areas.
Compare the gain of your one with their other units particularly in the lower frequency bands.

 

[Pasty or no?]

Do I change my antenna and if so for what?

I have a PVC so need external aerial to get past Faraday cage effect. Current antenna is Poynting 4x4 MiMo (the puck shaped type with 4 LTE leads). I have decent (I think) Teltonika RUTX50 router, with current firmware. I use 500GB data Three network (similar pants connectivity on phone with Tesco (O2), in the problem locations). I've messed about with different APN and tried tricks to select specific master bands often excluding the really useless Three band 20 and flitted between allowing 3g/4g/5g.

I seem to like finding the places with poor mobile master connectivity, despite being in areas that I would have considered populated and thus having reasonable coverage. Earlier this year I used C&CC in Bowness on Windermere and barely had bandwidth for SD streaming. I've spent the last week on a THS in Whitby (YO21 1LA) and again can barely stream, indeed at times even radio bandwidth has fallen over.

I don't need superfast connectivity, but enough for reliable HD would be good. As I'm single, I do use the TV a lot in evenings (or more unhealthily end up in a pub).

Is the gain (or lack of) on the antenna the problem? The Poynting 4x4 puck Mimo has negligible, even negative gain at low frequencies (-0.5dBi 617-960MHz). As i see it the Poynting shark fin 3x17 does much better in the low frequencies
(2.2 dBi @ 617-960MHz). But what about Panorama? Their puck (dome) style 4x4 Mimo suggests 5.8dBi for @ 617-960MHz. Perhaps for higher frequencies the Poynting puck style wins?

Is gain the only thing to worry about (ignoring cost). How relevant might future frequencies be?

At Whitby i seem to have masts in range on 4g bands 1,3,20. Who knows if 5g exists, and if so is that actually 5g or just an upgraded 4g LTE. The tech naming and menus available on the Teltonika, cell mapper website, and such like really confuse.

My brain hurts.

Hi

Like you, we tend to end up on sites with a poor signal usually because they're rural and tucked away. On our new van we spec'd
a Teltonika RUTM51 router and a Poynting Mimo 317 (shark fin type) antenna. The mobile carrier we will use is 1p Mobile who use the EE network. We chose this set up after talking with a very helpful and knowledgeable company called Solewise. They asked us lots of questions about our van, internet usage and the types of areas we normally stay in before coming up with the set up above. Here's a like to their website: https://www.solwise.co.uk/ They are also on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@solwise. Hope you find what you need.

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[JockandRita]

Kannon Fodda. Rob, we started off with a Poynting Puck antenna, but progressed to their Shark Fin V3 (5g compatible), currently connected to a Netgear M2 4G LTE MiFi, using an ID Mobile (Three) sim card. As in East and North Lincs, the Norfolk/Suffolk coast is always iffy for signals, but we have usually managed to gain enough signal to stream Catchup TV, and remotely access our home security cameras.

Through France and Spain, the setup has always worked a treat.

HTH,

Jock.

 

[Kannon Fodda]

The prices for Three (especially via Scancom), are markedly cheaper than some providers. EE is at the costly end of the scale. But perhaps that shows in their coverage? Starlink is unaffordable.

I have changed around leads onto the RUTX50. No difference. But from the Poynting puck they are all labelled equally as LTE.

It's perhaps odd that people suggest the puck should be better in Urban areas. In my head I would have thought Whitby as a good sized town is regarded as urban ( the college site of the ths is surrounded by housing). Similarly although spread out a bit Bowness on Windermere C&CC was not in the middle of nowhere. Yet I struggled. Not as though these areas had big festivals (especially Bowness in February), although now Whitby is very busy.

I can't see how I could have fitted anything wrong. But it is a small van, roof and interior are crowded. Is there a way to detect if something could be causing interference?

With money no object, is gain the only thing to consider in a 4x4 Mimo antenna? Is a higher number better, or can it be too much?

 

[RowleyBirkinQC]

I have changed around leads onto the RUTX50. No difference. But from the Poynting puck they are all labelled equally as LTE.

We have this antenna purchased via Solwise (there was a discount code which may still work)…

Solwise - MIMO-3-17 POYNTING 7-in-1 Transportation & Automotive Antenna, 4X4 LTE MIMO, 2X2 WiFi MIMO, GPS, - A-MIMO-3-V2-17 | Solwise Ltd

www.solwise.co.uk

Each of the 4 SMA connecter cables were labelled MAIN OR AUX. I stumbled upon discussions/technote which indicated the MAIN cables should be connected to ANT0 & ANT3 outer ports on RUTX50, with AUX cables connected to ANT1 & ANT2 inner ports. Can’t comment on whether this is bogus or not, but we’ve followed that model.

We run with a Scancom 3 sim (18 month package) and IQ mobile domestic EE sim (enable monthly as required), changing to which ever works best at the time (it can vary). Tends to work most of the time for streaming etc. We also use it for internet radio and Apple/Google maps when mobile.

 

[Peatmoor]

Do I change my antenna and if so for what?

I have a PVC so need external aerial to get past Faraday cage effect. Current antenna is Poynting 4x4 MiMo (the puck shaped type with 4 LTE leads). I have decent (I think) Teltonika RUTX50 router, with current firmware. I use 500GB data Three network (similar pants connectivity on phone with Tesco (O2), in the problem locations). I've messed about with different APN and tried tricks to select specific master bands often excluding the really useless Three band 20 and flitted between allowing 3g/4g/5g.

I seem to like finding the places with poor mobile master connectivity, despite being in areas that I would have considered populated and thus having reasonable coverage. Earlier this year I used C&CC in Bowness on Windermere and barely had bandwidth for SD streaming. I've spent the last week on a THS in Whitby (YO21 1LA) and again can barely stream, indeed at times even radio bandwidth has fallen over.

I don't need superfast connectivity, but enough for reliable HD would be good. As I'm single, I do use the TV a lot in evenings (or more unhealthily end up in a pub).

Is the gain (or lack of) on the antenna the problem? The Poynting 4x4 puck Mimo has negligible, even negative gain at low frequencies (-0.5dBi 617-960MHz). As i see it the Poynting shark fin 3x17 does much better in the low frequencies
(2.2 dBi @ 617-960MHz). But what about Panorama? Their puck (dome) style 4x4 Mimo suggests 5.8dBi for @ 617-960MHz. Perhaps for higher frequencies the Poynting puck style wins?

Is gain the only thing to worry about (ignoring cost). How relevant might future frequencies be?

At Whitby i seem to have masts in range on 4g bands 1,3,20. Who knows if 5g exists, and if so is that actually 5g or just an upgraded 4g LTE. The tech naming and menus available on the Teltonika, cell mapper website, and such like really confuse.

My brain hurts.

My brain is also hurting after trying to understand your post. Get a satellite system , then you can get a signal almost anywhere!!!

 

[PlacidoD]

Apologies for slight highjack Rob -To date I have been perfectly happy hot-spotting on EE off my Galaxy S10 5G when perambulating around Europe. What I am perhaps after (I am aiming to move to a PVC which might degrade my signal) is a signal booster linking by bluetooth or whatever to my existing phone if there is such a thing. I would prefer to avoid the complication of a separate data card and modem etc, etc. So signal booster for campsite wifi and incoming phone signal. Am I tilting at windmills?

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[Pausim]

Apologies for slight highjack Rob -To date I have been perfectly happy hot-spotting on EE off my Galaxy S10 5G when perambulating around Europe. What I am perhaps after (I am aiming to move to a PVC which might degrade my signal) is a signal booster linking by bluetooth or whatever to my existing phone if there is such a thing. I would prefer to avoid the complication of a separate data card and modem etc, etc. So signal booster for campsite wifi and incoming phone signal. Am I tilting at windmills?

I have not noticed any great difference having moved from A Class to Van. I still hot spot with my phone and still prop it up in a plastic window if the signal is poor.

 

[starquake]

The prices for Three (especially via Scancom), are markedly cheaper than some providers. EE is at the costly end of the scale. But perhaps that shows in their coverage? Starlink is unaffordable.

With money no object, is gain the only thing to consider in a 4x4 Mimo antenna? Is a higher number better, or can it be too much?

Three will have WAY more coverage than EE over next 2 years as the Three and Voda networks merge, and at moment they are due to have 3x as many frequencys as EE. Something like 2 thirds of ALL 5g frqeuencies are owned by VodaThree in UK at least.

Ref; Three and EE, you DO need good gain on B28 (700mhz) and B9 (900mhz), B20 all network use (800mhz) but it's slow. One of the key reasons I manually play with my settings is I frequently need to disable B20 on EE and Three,as it can be stronger, but slower than a B3 or B28 signal in rural parts. Teltonica has an option for this, I would reccomend this is the only thing to do if you find wifi slow to be honest, if you see you using B20, as it's usually very slow (5mhz width channel, where B28 and B3 are 15mhz width so > 3x as fast in reality). Three getting access to Vodafones old B9 (900mhz) signal as well as the entire 1500mhz spectrum on 4g is likely to result in some significant performance improvements on VodaThree which EE and O2 will not be able to match over coming years.

Ref; Gain, higher is better, and be warned it's an exponential scale, so yes 6 is better than 5, but it's exponentially better once you get > 8 dbi in reality. The other main thing that impacts signal is connectors (each one lowers the throughput) and length of cable, shorter the better. I'm a fan of the panorame antennas, sharkfin design ones, as they tend to have higher gain (6dbi or more) on the actual useful frequncies, but importantly have the best in class 5g frequency performance.

Ref; 5g in paritcular, this uses 3500mhz and 2100mhz in UK mostly (with a little N28 (700mhz) too, and gain figures on pucks can be terrible on that band. One bar of 3500mhz 5g will smoke 4 bars of B28 4g in throughput, as the minimum data speed is WAY higher on 5g than 4g. So far I've been to only one Campsite in France where 5g had to be turned off at 1 bar (as in that site, bonding 3 4g frequencies at same time was betetr).

I'm also btw, not a fan of the 4x4 mimo's in all cases, as it's rare as hens teeth today you'll bond 4 frequencies and radios at once -> literally had it happen once in last 12 months. When I last checked the spec sheets I think I recall that the 2x2 panoramas had about 0.5 to 1 dbi better on each frequncy than the 4x4 Poyntings and panorama (both). 1 dbi doesn't sound a lot ,but it could be 10-20Mbit in actual reality in a 1 bar rural situation. I concur with the poster above that 2 2x2 antennas from a spec sheet point of view may give you signal in places 1 4x4 does not, but in most (weak-mid signal places) it'll be indisguisable.

If you have a puck model, definitely replace with a Sharkfin model as the gain figures are notably better on that.

 

[Vanman]

I have to check before booking at any site with the OFCOMsignal checker site as lack of signal would be A no no. The postcode you gave came up as pants on 3.

We use our EE mobiles for streaming TV etc to laptops but have a 3 data only sim in a mifi in reserve. No external aerial just best position near a window or roof vent.

 

[Peregrinator]

Hi Rob, I'm still using the older XPOL-1 SERIES OMNI-DIRECTIONAL LTE ANTENNA 2X2 LTE (MIMO), it's been great so far, also been receiving 5g through it, had considered upgrading it to the newer 1-5G V2, but so far not needed to, alongside that my router/hub is the GL.iNet Spitz AX Wi-Fi 6 AX3000 5G NR, and those two working together greatly magnifies the throughput, and at the low end at least doubles the speed, I now use the same setup for my house, as there is a 5g antenna a few blocks away, on that I receive 500Mbps, we can test both when at Drax if you like.

 

[Markman]

Hi all,
A useful discussion, which I wish I'd read earlier.
I also have a GL.iNet Spitz AX Wi-Fi 6 AX3000. I recently purchased a Poynting MIMO-4 puck (from Solwise - I should have bought the sharkfin it seems!) and, when the signal is poor, isn't much different than the router's own plastic 8" long antennas, so next move will be to check the antennas main/aux cables (they looked the same to me) and band choice! I'd previously bought a Poynting Puck that didn't help so contacted Poynting in South Africa and they agreed I should send the puck back and get the 4X4 MIMO. I need to get back to them with my unimpressive performance data.

Regarding cell suppliers. Have previously been with Smarty, RWG, IQ Mobile, Tiekom, etc. We were in Mull in June and earlier prep/cellchecker showed Three to have poor coverage on Mull (it was, since that's what I use in my phone). EE better and went with Spusu, an Austrian reseller using EE's network (£29.50 unlimited).

Currently in Canada so wanted/need unlimited data but the prices are often silly (previously got AT&T for about $150/month) but recently switched to eSIM. Got physical SIM card that operates as an eSIM card and after much searching have ended up with Holafly (another Austrian outfit) who were offering a monthly, unlimited global eSIM for US$65/month (£50/month). Started it in UK and worked fine, ditto USA, struggling a bit in Canada, particularly when it gets remote. But price-wise really cheap for USA/Canada.

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[Peregrinator]

Hi all,
A useful discussion, which I wish I'd read earlier.
I also have a GL.iNet Spitz AX Wi-Fi 6 AX3000. I recently purchased a Poynting MIMO-4 puck (from Solwise - I should have bought the sharkfin it seems!) and, when the signal is poor, isn't much different than the router's own plastic 8" long antennas, so next move will be to check the antennas main/aux cables (they looked the same to me) and band choice! I'd previously bought a Poynting Puck that didn't help so contacted Poynting in South Africa and they agreed I should send the puck back and get the 4X4 MIMO. I need to get back to them with my unimpressive performance data.

Regarding cell suppliers. Have previously been with Smarty, RWG, IQ Mobile, Tiekom, etc. We were in Mull in June and earlier prep/cellchecker showed Three to have poor coverage on Mull (it was, since that's what I use in my phone). EE better and went with Spusu, an Austrian reseller using EE's network (£29.50 unlimited).

Currently in Canada so wanted/need unlimited data but the prices are often silly (previously got AT&T for about $150/month) but recently switched to eSIM. Got physical SIM card that operates as an eSIM card and after much searching have ended up with Holafly (another Austrian outfit) who were offering a monthly, unlimited global eSIM for US$65/month (£50/month). Started it in UK and worked fine, ditto USA, struggling a bit in Canada, particularly when it gets remote. But price-wise really cheap for USA/Canada.

Hi, I'm using ID mobile all unlimited with free roaming at £12 a month, got back into the UK beginning of this month after three months going around Europe, had no problems, except once when it was really poor signal, needed a second pair of eyes (lunarman) something in the setting needed changed.

 

[Markman]

Hi, I'm using ID mobile all unlimited with free roaming at £12 a month, got back into the UK beginning of this month after three months going around Europe, had no problems, except once when it was really poor signal, needed a second pair of eyes (lunarman) something in the setting needed changed.

Edit: I read your post as IQ Mobile, so replied to that. Checking through ID Mobile the £12/month gives you 150Gb in UK but only 30Gb in EU (unless you joined before June 2023). We typically use about 200Gb/month (streaming Sky Sport and odd movies). From what I read their £12 option is limited for roaming. Am I missing something?

 

[Lenny HB]

Interesting because I had them for a while until their prices went up. Now £75 for one month/100Gb data. We typically use about 200Gb/month (streaming Sky Sport and odd movies). From what I read their £15 option is only 7.5Gb. Am I missing something?

IQ Go Data Options

The IQ Go SIM Card is designed to go in your Wifi Router in your Caravan or Mobile Home. The SIM is active all year round, and when you know you will be going away, you purchase a one month data bolt-on, to let you have super-fast 4G and 5G internet.

helloiq.co.uk

You are confusing ID Mobile with IQ Mobile.

 

[Peregrinator]

Edit: I read your post as IQ Mobile, so replied to that. Checking through ID Mobile the £12/month gives you 150Gb in UK but only 30Gb in EU (unless you joined before June 2023). We typically use about 200Gb/month (streaming Sky Sport and odd movies). From what I read their £12 option is limited for roaming. Am I missing something?

Three years ago online, it was two year contract pay every mouth, but it just continues every mouth after the contract ended, unless you change it, they do try to get me to take a new deal, but I won't budge, that sim was for the router/hub, when Curries were doing a new deal two years ago, me and my wife changed our sims from EE to ID mobile with the same deal but at £16 a month unlimited with free roaming, you must make sure you sign a contract for free roaming unlimited, and no small print limiting you for the fair use policy, after 60 days you do get a message warning you, only once they stopped the number from phoning out, but I complained that they were breaking their contract, they reinstated the number, and for the last three years we have not paid any extra.

 

[Kannon Fodda]

So at Drax, using the Three I had more than adequate speeds using Three and my Mifi system. But I know that many on the field were struggling and indeed my phone on O2 was struggling to keep any connection. So perhaps my Mifi and antenna isn't that bad?

Now had time to do a quick comparative chart showing gain of the main 4x4 mimo antennas available from Poynting and Panorama.

Note the Mimo 4-17 is the one I currently have so whilst useless in the 410-470 Mhz band, it should be actually better than the Poynting Shark style for Three's 4G LTE usual frequency bands of B1(2100Mhz), B3(1800Mhz), B20(800Mhz), B28(700Mhz), and similarly for 5G as that rolls out?

On that basis I seem to find the areas such as Whitby where coverage really sucks. If I want to empty my wallet no point in changing to any other Poynting setup, it needs to be Panorama.

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