Knives

[U.Toadifact]

Just curious, but has anyone had a problem with the boys in blue having an issue with the kitchen knives we all carry in our chosen motorised homes?

Anyone heard of anyone else having a problem?

 

[Odd-no-more]

Knives in motor homes..
There is difference between a knife being in your drawer rather than your door pocket.

I was asked advice about knives on another forum. I replicate my lengthy post for info, it refers mainly to Leatherman tools but easily translates to others implements

Legality.
A Leatherman is only illegal if you don’t have the correct answers

Lock knives
The devil is in the detail. Leathermans normally have a blade which is locked into place or released using a push style button.

They normally have a blade length of 2 3/4” and therefore are, or rather can be, legal…see below

However that depends upon the purpose.

My excuse is that it is a handy space saving tool which I regularly use to maintain my campervan. It is kept in it’s leather pouch (not not readily useable without removal) in the van’s kitchen cutlery draw alongside many sharp and table knives. Therefore, if I wanted to use it to threaten to do harm, then I’d most likely use something more suitable like a long carving knife.



The following is merely a summary of many bits of legislation.

Lock knives are not classed as folding knives and are illegal to carry in public without good reason. Lock knives:

• have blades that can be locked and refolded only by pressing a button
• can include multi-tool knives - tools that also contain other devices such as a screwdriver or can opener

Examples of good reasons to carry a knife in public can include:

• taking knives you use at work to and from work
• taking knives to a gallery or museum to be exhibited
• the knife is going to be used for theatre, film, television, historical reenactment or religious purposes, e.g. the kirpan some Sikhs carry

A court will decide if you’ve got a good reason to carry a knife if you’re charged with carrying it illegally.

Knives generally
It is illegal to:

• sell a knife of any kind to anyone under 18 years old, unless it has a folding blade 3 inches long (7.62 cm) or less.
• carry a knife in public without good reason - unless it’s a knife with a folding blade 3 inches long (7.62 cm) or less, e.g. a Swiss Army knife (a "lock knife" does not come into the category of "folding pocket knife" because it is not immediately foldable at all times)
• carry, buy or sell any type of banned knife
• use any knife in a threatening way (including a legal knife, such as a Swiss Army knife)

So if you want to have a Leatherman.
Think before you carry it.
Perhaps,

• don’t put it in your trouser pocket
• Don’t keep it in your glove box or door pocket, better to keep it in the boot
• if you take it with you on the bike, make it obvious that it is not very accessible. Ie not in the tank bag, but wrapped up in a rag with other tools in the pannier or under the seat??

In short, its up to you to prove the good (enough) reason for having it.

You might have a good reason for having it in your pocket… but it’ll take much more explaining.

When I was working, I always had a leatherman on my belt. I had one on my belt last week whilst doing some work to connect the drain on the pitch.

 

[St3v3]

... some folk should cut others some slack and refrain from taking offence when clearly none was intended.

I completely agree.

... I will happily leave the forum for good.

That's definitely not necessary

And I'll try and get better at ignoring the perpetually offended.

 

[Oldrat]

When I was working, I always had a leatherman on my belt. I had one on my belt last week whilst doing some work to connect the drain on the pitch.

And why not, using it for what it is intended to do.

 

[ToGoldlyBo]

I practice Tai Chi. There are various forms that use weapons. I do one that uses a substantial curved sword (bit like a scimitar). The edge is not sharp but you could do some damage. The rule is if you carry the sword in its scabbard on the back seat or over your shoulder, you could be arrested and have the sword confiscated. But if you carry it in a zip up purpose made bag, then you are safe. The argument used by police is whether the sword is available for immediate action!!!!! A zip apparently slows you down enough to make you safe!

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[Outdoors Dad]

About 6 years ago I was going through Newcastle airport security on route to Portugal when my hand luggage rucksack was pulled up. I was asked to open it in a certain area and remove the object.....it was a leatherman type knive with cork screw etc and a few cod hooks that were snagged in the lining. The guy produced a brown envelope and put the knife in and suggested I buy some stamps for it. When we got back 8 days later the envelope was in my porch. I'd used the bag a few weekends before for a fishing trip, he was cool and non judgemental. It was a bit embarrassing like.

 

[David M]

Calm down, U. Toadifact! I’m sure there’s no need for you to leave the forum.

All you received was a polite request to use more modern terminology - hardly a “pile of grief”

My subsequent remarks (not to you) were aimed at illogical (and of course inappropriate) attempts to justify continued use of the expression, now that we know how offensive it can be to half the population.

 

[monzer]

Calm down, U. Toadifact! I’m sure there’s no need for you to leave the forum.

All you received was a polite request to use more modern terminology - hardly a “pile of grief”

My subsequent remarks (not to you) were aimed at illogical (and of course inappropriate) attempts to justify continued use of the expression, now that we know how offensive it can be to half the population.

Who decides whether it is offensive or not?

 

[DDJC]

Er, yes …

I’m struggling with your logic, here (and I find poor logic in discourse to be far more offensive than most “offensive” terms).

You can construct an extremely offensive statement from perfectly normal/innocent words, so we can’t. much judge from inclusion and labelling in a dictionary (not “the” dictionary, as different versions differ considerably).

The original “complaint” about the phrase ‘boys in blue’ was well-meant, I think. How must it feel, to be a hard-working and effective police woman, to have casual mentions of the police specifically restricted to only the male officers?

I’m sure the original use here of the phrase wasn’t intended to cause any offence at all, and very little damage was done. What’s much more offensive, though, is to fight back and “justify’ its use, rather than just say “Good point!”.

Is this a joke?
If so, you got me!!

 

[Minxy]

Calm down, U. Toadifact! I’m sure there’s no need for you to leave the forum.

No there certainly is not.

All you received was a polite request to use more modern terminology - hardly a “pile of grief”

My subsequent remarks (not to you) were aimed at illogical (and of course inappropriate) attempts to justify continued use of the expression, now that we know how offensive it can be to half the population.

How do you know it's offensive to half the population? You're not female so can't speak for me.

I don't find it offensive at all, if you want to complain about it then what about the fact that most, if not all, police now wear black not blue!

For goodness sake don't go on the giggles thread as you'll have palpitations!!!

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[meanders]

A few years ago I said in a meeting of mixed races, that I had not come in on a banana boat! A phrase I had heard and used all my life without ever thinking through it's connotations. The chair, a lovely lady of African-Caribbean heritage pulled a face but carried on. When we broke for a break, someone else spoke to me pointing out that by implication, it means only people arriving on banana boats are dim! I was horrified, and immediately realised why the chair had pulled the face. It was racist. Despite my extreme embarrassment, I immediately sought Rosemary out and apologised, and then to everyone else when the meeting recommenced. I have never used the phrase since except to mention the embarrassing situation. I guess what I am saying here, is just because something may be said in innocence, and was actively used in the past, does not mean it has not caused offence. No-one can retract it after it is said, but being defensive, while natural behaviour, is unhelpful to all parties. Absolutely no need to walk away from the forum though, or refer to those that point out the meanings that they are permanently offended. However we ALL should be sensitive to others feelings.

 

[Minxy]

I’m sure the original use here of the phrase wasn’t intended to cause any offence at all, and very little damage was done. What’s much more offensive, though, is to fight back and “justify’ its use, rather than just say “Good point!”.

What's even more offensive is to criticise someone because the reader (apparently you in this instance) has decided to take the comment out if context. It's sad that your comments have taken an interesting thread totally away from it's intended theme.

 

[DDJC]

You're not female

Apparently, it's no longer appropriate to make that sort of assumption ...

 

[CaptainPaul]

Installed some equipment in one of the H block prisons in NI. Went through security had to leave phones there go through the security hoop, car was checked over. Then we drove into a. area where the prisoners were, car was full of tools, including Stanley knifes. anyone could have easily got at them.

Who knew! I was in Long Kesh H7 for a while I might have met you in a previous life!

 

[meanders]

Perhaps we should all calm down.

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[Minxy]

A few years ago I said in a meeting of mixed races, that I had not come in on a banana boat!

I really am struggling to understand how you couldn't realise how offensive that was!

I wonder if the fact that you were in a meeting with mixed race members that triggered that sort of thinking from past experience and that had the meeting been made up of totally white English people it wouldn't have even entered your brain? A bit like the 'don't mention the war' when meeting a German.

 

[DDJC]

A few years ago I said in a meeting of mixed races, that I had not come in on a banana boat! A phrase I had heard and used all my life without ever thinking through it's connotations. The chair, a lovely lady of African-Caribbean heritage pulled a face but carried on. When we broke for a break, someone else spoke to me pointing out that by implication, it means only people arriving on banana boats are dim!

I thought it meant naive, not dim.

However we ALL should be sensitive to others feelings.

Fine, but no one these days seems to be sensitive to any alternate or contrary opinion, do they?

Back on topic, I've just looked the sharp knives I have in the bus (not cutlery, obv). I have six and two penknives. I must be a terrorist.

 

[Minxy]

Apparently, it's no longer appropriate to make that sort of assumption ...

I was giving him the benefit of the doubt! What he gets up to in his private life is up to him!

 

[SIFTA SAM]

A few years ago I said in a meeting of mixed races, that I had not come in on a banana boat! A phrase I had heard and used all my life without ever thinking through it's connotations. The chair, a lovely lady of African-Caribbean heritage pulled a face but carried on. When we broke for a break, someone else spoke to me pointing out that by implication, it means only people arriving on banana boats are dim! I was horrified, and immediately realised why the chair had pulled the face. It was racist. Despite my extreme embarrassment, I immediately sought Rosemary out and apologised, and then to everyone else when the meeting recommenced. I have never used the phrase since except to mention the embarrassing situation. I guess what I am saying here, is just because something may be said in innocence, and was actively used in the past, does not mean it has not caused offence. No-one can retract it after it is said, but being defensive, while natural behaviour, is unhelpful to all parties. Absolutely no need to walk away from the forum though, or refer to those that point out the meanings that they are permanently offended. However we ALL should be sensitive to others feelings.

If the minority of people are looking to take offence at any slight excuse then that's their problem. The sooner they get into the real world the better to stop needing/expecting 'attention' Be like me who is too thick to be offended
.

 

[meanders]

I really am struggling to understand how you couldn't realise how offensive that was!

I wonder if the fact that you were in a meeting with mixed race members that triggered that sort of thinking from past experience and that had the meeting been made up of totally white English people it wouldn't have even entered your brain? A bit like the 'don't mention the war' when meeting a German.

You could be right, except I had been sitting monthly in that group for two or more years. Someone (not the chair) said something blindingly obvious aimed at me, and that was my instinctive response. Yes I should have realised and the event is burned into my mind yet must have been 23 or more years ago, Who really knows how the brain works? I was fortunate that my apology for thoughtlessness was accepted at the time, but if anyone at that meeting is reading this, I unconditionally apologise again.

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[GMLS]

Not at all. But as the contents of a vehicle on a public highway are regarded in law as being in a public place, an over- enthusiastic copper may take a dim view.

And make him or herself look even dimmer in the process

 

[meanders]

I thought it meant naive, not dim.

Possibly, but still offensive in this example.

 

[David and Sally]

Well there was a case a couple of years ago where a telephone engineer working in a roadside cabinet was arrested for possession of a Stanley knife. What better "reasonable excuse" could one need?

Needless to say it didn't get to court.

That was some dickhead copper.

 

[gus-lopez]

I have knives in my tool kit in the van that I used to use when working for cutting insulation.Most are 12-16" blades thrown away in abbattoirs. Tool kit has cut outs for them.
When I first drove to the Uk back in 2013 in the car I got my nephew to go through the car as it is common here to carry knives on the dash board for hopping out & cutting a lettuce, cauli,broccoli,cabage etc.

Do you have any knives or other weapons.

I have been asked that but he qualified it by stating" that are not kitchen knives"

Well there was a case a couple of years ago where a telephone engineer working in a roadside cabinet was arrested for possession of a Stanley knife. What better "reasonable excuse" could one need?

Needless to say it didn't get to court.

the same happened to my eldest bro-in-laws eldest son who is a carpet fitter.

Carrying a kitchen knife in your belt, or having it in the side pocket of your drivers seat is illegal.
Having it in your kitchen, no problems.

have blades that can be locked and refolded only by pressing a button

which would include most new types of Stanley knife as most , including my new ones, fold & are in belt cases ,as is mine.

unless it has a folding blade 3 inches long (7.62 cm) or less.

Bit where is it measured from? My stanley that folds only has a blade sticking out that is about 35mm( 1,3/8") but to the hinge it is just in excess of the lock knife amount?

The thought of any officer worrying about what is in the kitchen of your motorhome/campervan or indeed caravan is pretty unbelievable.

Yet they do.

, guess which three kids were "randomly" selected for a full search)

I hope you complained :I would,& have done before. I'd also complain on behalf of someone else who was nothing to do with me when I have seen them having the p+++ taken by officials ;especially here where many funcionarios(civil servants) take great delight in failing to do what they are paid for.

 

[meanders]

If the minority of people are looking to take offence at any slight excuse then that's their problem.

I do not think in situation it caused real offence but the facial expression showed at least discomfort. It was entirely my fault, No-one should feel uncomfortable whether or not they have actually been offended.

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[Nanniemate]

I didn't think blue shirts were still worn by the police force

So the 'thin blue line' or 'boys in blue' should be 'people in pole shirts chasing baddies'

Don't have quite the same ring to it

here's a high horse in case it's needed

 

[David M]

You're not female so can't speak for me.

I don't find it offensive at all,

Not that it matters, but I am male.

My sensitivity comes from my time as a police officer, when I saw first hand how the general assumption that police are male can make the job so difficult for women.

Not finding something offensive is fine - there’s a difference between something being potentially offensive, and whether some or all then take offence.

 

[tacr2man]

What a state we have got ourselves into

 

[Minxy]

the event is burned into my mind yet must have been 23 or more years ago

Ah, you said a few years ago so I thought it was much more recent than that, thinking has changed a lot since the early 00s and no doubt yours had too. The difficulty is when things have been done in the past which were 'normal' then and became ingrained, these are hard to avoid as your mouth can speak automatically from that knowledge before your brain has time to reflect on the actual comment you're making.

 

[Minxy]

Not that it matters, but I am male.

My sensitivity comes from my time as a police officer, when I saw first hand how the general assumption that police are male can make the job so difficult for women.

No doubt at the time female police officers were referred to as WPC instead of PC? I never understood why there was a need to differentiate.

Not finding something offensive is fine - there’s a difference between something being potentially offensive, and whether some or all then take offence.

It depends on the context surely. There are times where everyone can see the intention is not meant as a serious comment and other times when it is totally inappropriate, judging which is the difficult bit but I'd rather err on the former than the latter.

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[meanders]

Minxy that made me smile. as it jogged the memory of a very long discussion at college about how many 'a few' and 'several' actually are, even as a range, but that's another long winded debate.

I agree that some of what we say is probably involuntary.