Smart meters

[Folkranger]

It cost money to maintain a supply even if you are not using it. Perhaps the standing charges have got out of proportion but a small charge seems fair.

Not at all fair. If you stop using your supply tomorrow the suppliers fixed costs will still be the same. Like all businesses they should recover their fixed costs through sales charges. i.e. through the usage charge per kwh.
It would be a different argument if everyone stopped using the service, leaving noone to pick up the tab, but this is not going to happen.

Standing charges favour the rich/high users and penalise the poor/low users.

Example: petrol suppliers don't charge you weekly because they have forecourt costs and refinery costs. They recover these costs in the price of sales.

 

[Folkranger]

I disagree there is a cost in maintaining the network to your house. If you decide to being on that network it's only fair you pay towards it. If the cost depends on the amount of power used that should be added to the kWh charge. There could therefore be an argument for a reduction in the standing charge if it's more than the cost of maintaining a basic network but not abolishing it altogether

Sorry, that is a false argument.

If you stop using your supply tomorrow the suppliers fixed costs will still be the same. Like all businesses they should recover their fixed costs through sales charges. i.e. through the usage charge per kwh.
It would be a different argument if everyone stopped using the service, leaving noone to pick up the tab, but this is not going to happen.

Standing charges favour the rich/high users and penalise the poor/low users.

Example: petrol suppliers don't charge you weekly because they have forecourt costs and refinery costs. They recover these costs in the price of sales.

 

[Bolti]

A few years ago I asked for a smart meter as our lecky meter is in the spider ridden basement so would stop me being traumatised every month. I own the flat next door so had smart meters installed in both properties. I was happy to monitor my energy usage, but annoyed that the adverts seemed to imply the meters would automatically make you more energy efficient. Meters duly fitted and work well with the lecky but once he had finished the installer informed me they would never work for the gas as the meters were outside on a thick red sandstone wall and however good the wifi the signal would never work. Actually they did work initially with the gas, but that soon changed. Octopus are chasing me about the meters not working and I am reluctant to respond as, in a fit of pique, I slung one of the ruddy things in the bin. I am now aware that the meters are the property of the energy supplier.
Woe is me.
Sue

Don't worry you only disposed of the IHD (in house display) this is yours to do with as you wish.

 

[The Wino]

Sorry, that is a false argument.

If you stop using your supply tomorrow the suppliers fixed costs will still be the same. Like all businesses they should recover their fixed costs through sales charges. i.e. through the usage charge per kwh.
It would be a different argument if everyone stopped using the service, leaving noone to pick up the tab, but this is not going to happen.

Standing charges favour the rich/high users and penalise the poor/low users.

Example: petrol suppliers don't charge you weekly because they have forecourt costs and refinery costs. They recover these costs in the price of sales.

Not quite the same thing when there's a permanently installed way of supplying something that you want maintained and the cost of maintenance is largely unnafected be the amount supplied. I see it more like living on a private road like we do. When maintenance is required generally everyone chips in the same it's not based on whether you have a bike or a car or two plus a motorhome. I'm glad it isn't!

 

[Bolti]

I am with octopus on the agile tariff these are the prices for today, between 10.30am and 4 pm my electric was as good as free at times I was even being paid for using it.

00:00 - 00:30 16.65p/kWh00:30 - 01:00 14.09p/kWh01:00 - 01:30 14.89p/kWh01:30 - 02:00 9.92p/kWh02:00 - 02:30 6.17p/kWh02:30 - 03:00 3.98p/kWh03:00 - 03:30 5.51p/kWh03:30 - 04:00 4.03p/kWh04:00 - 04:30 5.03p/kWh04:30 - 05:00 2.03p/kWh05:00 - 05:30 6.62p/kWh05:30 - 06:00 8.38p/kWh06:00 - 06:30 2.65p/kWh06:30 - 07:00 9.88p/kWh07:00 - 07:30 8.37p/kWh07:30 - 08:00 12.75p/kWh08:00 - 08:30 8.66p/kWh08:30 - 09:00 11.51p/kWh09:00 - 09:30 8.24p/kWh09:30 - 10:00 7.06p/kWh10:00 - 10:30 4.41p/kWh10:30 - 11:00 -0.06p/kWh11:00 - 11:30 0.14p/kWh11:30 - 12:00 -0.48p/kWh12:00 - 12:30 0.88p/kWh12:30 - 13:00 -1.1p/kWh13:00 - 13:30 0.22p/kWh13:30 - 14:00 -1.1p/kWh14:00 - 14:30 -0.36p/kWh14:30 - 15:00 -1.1p/kWh15:00 - 15:30 0p/kWh15:30 - 16:00 0.55p/kWh16:00 - 16:30 11.5p/kWh16:30 - 17:00 16.79p/kWh17:00 - 17:30 17.63p/kWh17:30 - 18:00 23.14p/kWh18:00 - 18:30 24.59p/kWh18:30 - 19:00 27.81p/kWh19:00 - 19:30 16.86p/kWh19:30 - 20:00 16.86p/kWh20:00 - 20:30 18.94p/kWh20:30 - 21:00 17.11p/kWh21:00 - 21:30 17.64p/kWh21:30 - 22:00 17.28p/kWh22:00 - 22:30 21.17p/kWh22:30 - 23:00 14.62p/kWh23:00 - 23:3 09.9p/kWh23:30 - 00:00 -2.21p/kWh

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[Folkranger]

Not quite the same thing when there's a permanently installed way of supplying something that you want maintained and the cost of maintenance is largely unnafected be the amount supplied. I see it more like living on a private road like we do. When maintenance is required generally everyone chips in the same it's not based on whether you have a bike or a car or two plus a motorhome. I'm glad it isn't!

Your thinking is trapped by the conventions that we see as norms. Do you think that building an oil refinery is less permanent and therefore needs less maintenance than a cable to your house?
The only justification that utility companies have for charging separately for their fixed costs is that you have a permanent fixed address and so they can hang this on you.

My way is better, fairer, less beurocratic and therefore less costly.

 

[DelMar]

If one goes away for three months and all electric is off and no gas is used. Does this now seem fair that a standing charge is collected for that time. Why? for what?
Energy companies are making enough profit already.

 

[Woodgates]

I’m with Octopus with dual rate electricity on smart meter, 40p/kWh day rate, 17p/kWh night rate. Immersion, dishwasher and washing machine are on night rate whenever possible, between midnight and 7am. When first installed the gas meter didn’t speak to the electric meter, so had a dual band system installed at no cost by the supplier.

 

[Pausim]

Example: petrol suppliers don't charge you weekly because they have forecourt costs and refinery costs. They recover these costs in the price of sales.

You don’t have an individual petrol meter, permanent direct connection to the pump and an individual account with monthly statements. Not the same. Also we would all be subsidising dormant accounts if there was no incentive to disconnect redundant supplies.

However I do agree that high daily charges disadvantage less well off low users and think the charges have gone up too much. The whole system does need reviewing.

 

[The Wino]

You don’t have an individual petrol meter, permanent direct connection to the pump and an individual account with monthly statements. Not the same. Also we would all be subsidising dormant accounts if there was no incentive to disconnect redundant supplies.

However I do agree that high daily charges disadvantage less well off low users and think the charges have gone up too much. The whole system does need reviewing.

At the very least the cost of managing gas escapes should be distributed across those using the network and the cost of renewing mains.

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[dunnah01]

Our Smart meter costs us loads more, but only because they b@11sed up fitting it. They ripped out an old skool Economy 7 setup and installed a standard tariff smart meter by mistake. They offered to change to an Eco 7 smart meter but then when pushed they ended up saying sorry but f-off we don't do Economy 7 any more so tough, charming..

 

[Folkranger]

You don’t have an individual petrol meter, permanent direct connection to the pump and an individual account with monthly statements. Not the same. Also we would all be subsidising dormant accounts if there was no incentive to disconnect redundant supplies.

However I do agree that high daily charges disadvantage less well off low users and think the charges have gone up too much. The whole system does need reviewing.

At the moment we're subsidising richer, high users and there's a lot more of those than dormant accounts.

 

[Elsie2010]

Would this still apply if the child was 43 and I could convince her to move back in with us?

Hold on, the past has just come flooding back to me. I think I'd rather pay the energy bills!

Hey!!
Be careful what you wish for.....said child of 43 is only next door and isn't too far to slung the suit cases over the wall

 

[Elsie2010]

By the way - did anyone know that if there is a child/children in the household, it is illegal to cut the electricity off, regardless of any debts. I know someone who never paid a £600 leccy bill for exactly this reason. (Not a friend I add).

Also, they cannot cut you off from gas between Oct and Feb, I believe

 

[dunnah01]

Our Smart meter costs us loads more, but only because they b@11sed up fitting it. They ripped out an old skool Economy 7 setup and installed a standard tariff smart meter by mistake. They offered to change to an Eco 7 smart meter but then when pushed they ended up saying sorry but f-off we don't do Economy 7 any more so tough, charming..

Also noticed last week that they'd upped the voltage to over 250v so solar inverter now trips out with Vac overvoltage so I've had to fit an optimizer to get it down to about 230v

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[Howard B]

Our smart meter gives us access to the Octopus smart tariffs. Cheap electric tariff overnight to charge our batteries and a gas tariff which other than a few weeks in December has been well below 10p a kWh ( been about 4.5p a kWh for the past few months).
More than happy with ours.

 

[Bolti]

Our smart meter gives us access to the Octopus smart tariffs. Cheap electric tariff overnight to charge our batteries and a gas tariff which other than a few weeks in December has been well below 10p a kWh ( been about 4.5p a kWh for the past few months).
More than happy with ours.

Which gas tariff are you on? I am on agile octopus for electric but was told there are no gas tariffs availabile

 

[Howard B]

Which gas tariff are you on? I am on agile octopus for electric but was told there are no gas tariffs availabile

Octopus Tracker. I was told last year when I rang there was nothing available, however I went on Twitter and managed to sort it. It may have gone now though Ill find out next month when my 12 month contract ends.

 

[Bolti]

Octopus Tracker. I was told last year when I rang there was nothing available, however I went on Twitter and managed to sort it. It may have gone now though Ill find out next month when my 12 month contract ends.

The tracker tariff reopens this month,(so Google tells me) I have dropped octopus an email to transfer my gas when it starts.

 

[Howard B]

The tracker tariff reopens this month,(so Google tells me) I have dropped octopus an email to transfer my gas when it starts.

I would do it via Twitter if I were you.

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[G-RMPS]

I was forced to move from my supplier, who used to provide useful analytics. Eon took over, claiming there would be no change to the service. But they refused to update their accounting software to provide what I had been provided previously

So I got them to install a smart meter - which was fine until it started counting units consumed when the power was off at the supply while I was abroad. How can that happen? Anyway they agreed to deduct the incorrect charges and replaced my smart meter with the same old dumb model!

Back to the spreadsheet…