CBE Distribution Unit DS470-CA in a Carthago

Lenny HB

Lenny HB

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Carthago Compactline
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Since 2008 & many years tugging
I've spent the afternoon freezing my b***s off have a look at my mates (JonP ) Carthago problems.

A couple of days ago he found his habitation electrics dead, the van was sitting on the drive not in use & drained down.
The 7.5 amp Pump fuse & 15 amp Media fuse were blown, he replaced the fuses, they didn't blow again but the control panel still dead.
Power is live on B1 & B2 from the batteries, the 5 amp heating supply fuse & the 15 amp fuse to 12v sockets both have no power going to them, all other fuses have power in and out of them.
So it's looking like a processor problem on the board, just wondering if there is a trick to reset the board.

One thing that has happened which I really don't see how it would cause a problem is he has a small electric fence around the van due to foxes nibbly the tail light wiring. A couple of nights ago the foxes knocked the fence onto the van, OK it's high voltage but it would have touched the painted surface so I can't really see it being a problem but there is always a possibility.

IMG_20221227_153238.jpg
 
Lenny HB said:
I've spent the afternoon freezing my b***s off have a look at my mates (JonP ) Carthago problems.



A couple of days ago he found his habitation electrics dead, the van was sitting on the drive not in use & drained down.

The 7.5 amp Pump fuse & 15 amp Media fuse were blown, he replaced the fuses, they didn't blow again but the control panel still dead.

Power is live on B1 & B2 from the batteries, the 5 amp heating supply fuse & the 15 amp fuse to 12v sockets both have no power going to them, all other fuses have power in and out of them.

So it's looking like a processor problem on the board, just wondering if there is a trick to reset the board.



One thing that has happened which I really don't see how it would cause a problem is he has a small electric fence around the van due to foxes nibbly the tail light wiring. A couple of nights ago the foxes knocked the fence onto the van, OK it's high voltage but it would have touched the painted surface so I can't really see it being a problem but there is always a possiility.




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Not come across a reset, I take it powering down hasn't worked?

There is a menu you can access by holding down the prog button when you switch the panel on, that might have a reset, but I can't remember, sorry. Double post caused by my pad doing odd things, need to chuck it across the kitchen.....
 
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Powering down didn't help and control panel is dead no power to it.
 
AdrianChen said:
Not come across a reset, I take it powering down hasn't worked?

There is a menu you can access by holding down the prog button when you switch the panel on, that might have a reset, but I can't remember, sorry. Double post caused by my pad doing odd things, need to chuck it across the kitchen.....
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You also need to disconnect EHU to access this extra menu but also can't remember if there is a reset option either ☹️

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Lenny HB it will more than likely be the PC380ca control panel that has failed, it then renders the CBE470 useless there is an sos fuse in the fuse bank but only basic functions, in fact they are that bad we carry a spare.
 
Just found this whilst looking up the unit. It would be handy if it explained the "sos function"but that maybe in the manual? If it can be powered it may help with the fault finding?
If the high voltage fence touched the chassis / legs if could have sent a high voltage up the neg leg and blown a track off or a component. When we had the shop and after a lighting storm lots of people reported failures (Tv's video & sat receivers) and it was almost always the neg leg hit so buggered "up the a**e".
Good luck.
From here. https://www.cbe.it/en/pc-380-and-ds-470-just-made-for-each-other/

"Although CBE products are built to the highest quality standards, these components too might be sensitive, e.g. to electric shock or external disturbances. In the rare event of a failure to the control panel or distribution module, a drawback of modern systems is that more often than not almost nothing is working, not even basic users such as the heater, water pump and lights.
On the contrary, thanks to the DS470 built-in SOS function, end customers just need to insert a fuse in the fuse casing, to provide direct power for the heater, water pump and lights. This allows end customers to ensure that their vehicle will complete its journey before being brought in for servicing. In terms of accessories, CBE features a full range of products that complete system."
 
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Steve and Denise said:
Lenny HB it will more than likely be the PC380ca control panel that has failed, it then renders the CBE470 useless there is an sos fuse in the fuse bank but only basic functions, in fact they are that bad we carry a spare.
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Are you sayi g you carry a spare control panel?
 
Lenny HB said:
Are you sayi g you carry a spare control panel?
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Yes as they are a common fault usually after being shut down they fail to restart.
I have spoken to both Carthago and CBE and both say there is no problem ! Then why are there countless failures on the Carthago forums🤬
 
A few have sent them to Appuljack but with no luck, I sent one to Leisure electronics they managed to restart the panel but could not guarantee it would restart if powered down (apparently a firmware problem) I have never switched it off since.
 
Vansflyer said:
Just found this whilst looking up the unit. It would be handy if it explained the "sos function"but that maybe in the manual? If it can be powered it may help with the fault finding?
If the high voltage fence touched the chassis / legs if could have sent a high voltage up the neg leg and blown a track off or a component. When we had the shop and after a lighting storm lots of people reported failures (Tv's video & sat receivers) and it was almost always the neg leg hit so buggered "up the a**e".
Good luck.
From here. https://www.cbe.it/en/pc-380-and-ds-470-just-made-for-each-other/

"Although CBE products are built to the highest quality standards, these components too might be sensitive, e.g. to electric shock or external disturbances. In the rare event of a failure to the control panel or distribution module, a drawback of modern systems is that more often than not almost nothing is working, not even basic users such as the heater, water pump and lights.
On the contrary, thanks to the DS470 built-in SOS function, end customers just need to insert a fuse in the fuse casing, to provide direct power for the heater, water pump and lights. This allows end customers to ensure that their vehicle will complete its journey before being brought in for servicing. In terms of accessories, CBE features a full range of products that complete system."
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I've never had anything to do with CBE units I didn't know about the SOS function Jon will try that tomorrow it may get the basics working.

I wouldn't have thought a small electric fence unit would have had enough power to cause a problem through the paintwork. Jon did say the fence wire was also lying on the alloy wheel but that has a coat of lacquer on it.
Certainly not enough power to blow a track but I suppose it could take out a sensitive chip.
 
Lenny HB said:
I've never had anything to do with CBE units I didn't know about the SOS function Jon will try that tomorrow it may get the basics working.

I wouldn't have thought a small electric fence unit would have had enough power to cause a problem through the paintwork. Jon did say the fence wire was also lying on the alloy wheel but that has a coat of lacquer on it.
Certainly not enough power to blow a track but I suppose it could take out a sensitive chip.
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No idea how much power can come off the the fence but if it came into contact with the chassis at all it will always go for the weakest link as you know. I also doubt it would make it through the paintwork / vinyl.
We have the a CBE unit in our C-Tourer but not over impressed TBH..
 
I can’t help with the DS470 problem, it looks more sophisticated than my DS300 which I don’t think has an SOS function. The SOS function sounds like a very good idea.

Having Googled electric fences it looks like they send out pulses of electricity of between 2,000V and 10,000V but with a current measured in mA. That sounds like the sort of voltage that could fry a few components if it went through a circuit the wrong way. I will be taking extra care in my storage yard from now on because there is an electric fence around the chicken run I reverse up to.
 
Lenny I had to replace my control unit and distribution box back in a thread in Feb 2019 and I gave in that thread some at your own risk instructions Travelworld gave me at the time. Mine was an N&B Artist though. If the the systems been fried then you have to buy new from Carthago as its proprietary software to each manufacturer.

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Abacist said:
Lenny I had to replace my control unit and distribution box back in a thread in Feb 2019 and I gave in that thread some at your own risk instructions Travelworld gave me at the time. Mine was an N&B Artist though. If the the systems been fried then you have to buy new from Carthago as its proprietary software to each manufacturer.
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Yes I remember your thread I mentioned it to Jon.
 
Never mind Lenny you can try your panel in from your new van it only clips in 👍
 
Pausim said:
I can’t help with the DS470 problem, it looks more sophisticated than my DS300 which I don’t think has an SOS function. The SOS function sounds like a very good idea.
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well that saved me asking has the DS300 got the SOS function
 
the1andonly said:
well that saved me asking has the DS300 got the SOS function
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I am not 100% sure, there are variations between the panels used by different manufacturers. My one is a DS300 CA (CA=Carthago?) and it has two unused and unmarked fuse spaces. Without visiting my motorhome in storage I can not see if they are empty holes or if they have unused connectors within them.

At some point I may get someone to turn the panel on and off while I listen/feel the DS300 to see if I can identify the relay that powers the basic functions. I can’t help thinking there may be test connections that technicians use to check out system faults that would in effect be an SOS function.

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Jon has put the SOS fuse in and now has lights, heating and water pump and is going to use the van over the weekend.

If the problem was caused by the electric fence which is now looking a strong possibility. I was wondering if the van had been plugged into EHU the negative on the electrics & the van chassis/body would have been earthed and alleviated the problem.
 
Lenny HB said:
Jon has put the SOS fuse in and now has lights, heating and water pump and is going to use the van over the weekend.

If the problem was caused by the electric fence which is now looking a strong possibility. I was wondering if the van had been plugged into EHU the negative on the electrics & the van chassis/body would have been earthed and alleviated the problem.
Click to expand...
I wouldn’t have thought so as the live touching the negative would be a dead short which is supposed to blow the fuse.
 
Lenny HB said:
Jon has put the SOS fuse in and now has lights, heating and water pump and is going to use the van over the weekend.

If the problem was caused by the electric fence which is now looking a strong possibility. I was wondering if the van had been plugged into EHU the negative on the electrics & the van chassis/body would have been earthed and alleviated the problem.
Click to expand...
Not sure, but I would think to be certain there would have to be full isolation between the chassis and DC negative - Good that the SOS means he can use the van, and the cab/ECU didnt suffer as well......
 
Lenny HB said:
Jon has put the SOS fuse in and now has lights, heating and water pump and is going to use the van over the weekend.

If the problem was caused by the electric fence which is now looking a strong possibility. I was wondering if the van had been plugged into EHU the negative on the electrics & the van chassis/body would have been earthed and alleviated the problem.
Click to expand...
As I said Lenny these panels fail all the time with no outside influenc, no reason your friends should be any different.
 
stevewagner said:
I wouldn’t have thought so as the live touching the negative would be a dead short which is supposed to blow the fuse.
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I think you missed the point as the fence is an isolated output.

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AdrianChen said:
Not sure, but I would think to be certain there would have to be full isolation between the chassis and DC negative - Good that the SOS means he can use the van, and the cab/ECU didnt suffer as well......
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DC negative is always connected to the chassis in motorhomes.
 
Lenny HB said:
Jon has put the SOS fuse in and now has lights, heating and water pump and is going to use the van over the weekend.

If the problem was caused by the electric fence which is now looking a strong possibility. I was wondering if the van had been plugged into EHU the negative on the electrics & the van chassis/body would have been earthed and alleviated the problem.
Click to expand...
I think it might help, electricity will always follow the path of least resistance. A chassis earthing strap attached to a metal peg might be even better. Carthago say their motorhomes act as a Faraday cage and an earthed cage probably has the same effect on the fence impulses as a cow i.e. straight to earth through its hoofs. The route to earth might be less direct if the cow was wearing rubber boots or tyres.
 

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