Citroen Relay engine electrical issues (arrrgh!!!)

[Wildwoodflowr]

I have a 2013 Citroen Relay that has been giving me headaches with a series of electrical issues for the past year.
I'm hoping that with the huge amount of experience on here with Relay/Boxer/Ducato vehicles someone will recognise the issues and maybe have a solution.

The current problem is twofold -
1. Intermittent fault code (P0103) on the Mass Air Flow sensor. Just an irritation really and easily cleared with the OBD scanner. However, it very well may be indicative of a wider issue, possibly with earthing?
2. Starter motor won't work/works. Symptoms are all lights as normal, then no click from relay and no starter motor. This spontaneously cures itself ... sometimes. Right now it is dead as a dodo. It was throwing up a P0615 starter relay circuit malfunction code. After consulting with a mechanic I replaced the starter motor with a new Bosch unit. Ran beautifully for a few days ... then this morning back to no-click dead starter.

Anyhow, some history.
A year ago, a few weeks after I'd bought the van from a private seller who'd started camper conversion but run out of money, it refused to start. Turned out the the PO had repeatedly jumped it earthing in the wrong place and fried the whole front loom. £3.5k at my local Citroen dealership here in France and a new loom, MAF sensor and earth strap later, all was okay save the intermittent MAF code issue (see 1. above).

I'm in my fifties, am a reasonable home mechanic and have had a lot of vehicles over the years. This one is by far the most frustrating and expensive and I hate it like the plague. Any ideas or tales of similar experiences most welcome. If I didn't have so much sunk in the vehicle and need it for transport, I'd take it to the crusher and then dance on the cube.
Kathy

 

[Clivefog]

!. take it back to Citroen dealership who fitted the sensor, their problem.

2. Most starter problems are solenoid wear. Get the starter tested or overhauled/refurbished.

 

[Stealaway]

Just two ideas

Have you checked the battery connections are good? Common problem often overlooked.
Are you sure the mass air flow sensor is not faulty?

 

[gus-lopez]

It could even be something as simple as the wire connection to the solenoid. When you turn the key & nothing happens try getting someone to waggle the solenoid wire to see whether it is a loose connectio, whilst you keep the key turned?

failing that if you have no one then first get a length of wire that will reach from battery live to solenoid & crimp a terminal suitable for the solenoid connection on one end. bare the other end. open bonnet.
when you turn the key & nothing happens, leave the key on & remove the wire from the solenoid . Put the connection you crimped on to the solenoid & touch the bare end to the battery live. Make sure it isn't in gear first though.
If it kicks over /starts then fault is either the connection to the solenoid, or between the starter switch & the solenoid. Might be a relay along the way somewhere?

 

[Wildwoodflowr]

Mant thank to you all for the responses.
I'll deal with them in order.

Clivefog - 1. I did, multiple times. They get it behaving for a few days then bingo, on it came. They couldn't find a permanent fix and I'd already spent too much. I strongly suspect that there's nothing wrong with the MAF sensor but that there is a earthing issue *somewhere*. 2. Starter and solenoid are brand new Bosch units.

Stealaway - Yes, I've been through every one I can reach, but of course the Relay engine bay is so damn tight and awkward to get into I'm not sure I've reached everything - and of course where I can get a finger on it just wiggling the terminal to check for a loose connection isn't the same as stripping it down and cleaning. The alternative is to take off the whole front end and work it through. As for the MAF, it COULD be another duff unit, but it was replaced when we did the loom last spring. I'm not an expert by any means but I think the OBD data shows a current spike.

Gus-lopez - Yes, I need to do this test. I am on my own here. One of the biggest problems with the Relay is actually getting the solenoid wires on and off. Access involves lying under the engine with just enough room to slip one hand in between all the hoses and cables ... and almost no room for a spanner or ratchet. My right hand is a mass of cuts and scratches after changing the starter motor. Two bolts to hold the starter in, two nuts for the wires - it took FIVE hours. I'm absolutely with you on suspecting a relay somewhere on the way.

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[Otter Spotter]

I had similar problem within 1000 miles of delivery as new van, wiring loom replaced under guarantee, I would suggest even though your loom has been replaced that a garage takes a look around the fuse box area, that’s were mine was overheating and then causing the intermittent but worsening problem.

 

[Wildwoodflowr]

Thanks, Otter Spotter, I'll do that.

 

[Raul]

O two Vauxhall’s I had in the past, I had to run a negative wire to the MAF sensor as was eating sensors. The direct wire cured it for good.
Starter, I has intermittent faults on Renault Megane, as I was pulling on the wire it was working fine, the feed to the coil, so i traced it in the loom and replaced that length. Used brass nut and spring washer on the alternator with a bit of silicone grease. Solved.

 

[TheBig1]

Also has anyone removed the headlights and cleaned up the body earth contacts underneath? They corrode due to water and dirt driving in

 

[Wildwoodflowr]

Hi TheBig1,
No, not in the past 12 months. That's definitely on the list now. Thanks.

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[Wildwoodflowr]

UPDATE
Could it be that the brand new Bosch starter is the problem?
My friend Tony at the local Citroen dealership demonstrated the following:
Ignition on and key held at 'start'
Give the solenoid a couple of sharp taps - et voila! - the starter kicks over and the vehicle starts.

Now, it certainly possible that the brand new Bosch unit is faulty BUT how likely is that?
And is it coincidental that it is replicating the original fault? I doubt it.

I'm going to put an extra earth on to the starter and then go through and clean any other earths and see what happens.

If that doesn't work, then I'll curl into a ball and cry!

 

[George Relay]

I have had some very stratagem electrical issues with my 2013 Citroen relay. 2 months on the driveway before I found the simplist of problems. After replacing the BCM/ engine bay fuse box/ stripping the wiring loom. Turns out the issue was just a bad connection from one of the positive wires from the battery. Symptoms included- lights would stay on and flash with the keys out the ignition/ windscreen washer was on with the keys out the ignition/ turned over but wouldn’t start/ instrument panel was on but showing no fuel and check oil/ engine warnings. One wire was the cause

 

[RHYS1]

I have had some very stratagem electrical issues with my 2013 Citroen relay. 2 months on the driveway before I found the simplist of problems. After replacing the BCM/ engine bay fuse box/ stripping the wiring loom. Turns out the issue was just a bad connection from one of the positive wires from the battery. Symptoms included- lights would stay on and flash with the keys out the ignition/ windscreen washer was on with the keys out the ignition/ turned over but wouldn’t start/ instrument panel was on but showing no fuel and check oil/ engine warnings. One wire was the cause







Hi, I have a 2023 citroen relay 2.2 hdi. I have a similar issue. Yesterday it didn't want to start. Has power, all lights on etc. Turn the ignition and its just one single click. After about 10-15 tries it turned over as normal. Today its worse, but still eventually turns over. I've tried resetting the BCM it didn't make any difference. Can you provide and advice? Thanks

 

[activecampers]

Can you connect your laptop and software and monitor live data on the MAF sensor?
Should be easy to spot problems or intermittent issues - and then (personally) I'd wire the connections back to ECU/earth with new cables - may be a poor connection.

Starter, again monitor computer you can see what is happening and keep an eye on voltage. Check earth straps (again) and perhaps run jumper leads (to bypass earth straps) to see if there is something at fault.

I bought the van (new). Next day I bought the laptop interface and software.... (MultiECUScan)
Really good for live views of "requested vs actual" on everything from injectors, turbo position, EGR etc so invaluable to see if ancillaries are doing what the ECU asks for. Not just for reading error codes.
(It can also actuate various things to test them)

 

[GeoffnDee]

RHYS1 The common problem with the earth cables (engine to body and battery to body) is not always the connection between the lead and earth but can be the lead itself having a poor connection (corrosion) at the terminal to cable joint , replacement or adding extra new earth cables is the best option to be sure the cables are not causing the problem .
It would also be worth checking that the maxi fuse terminals on the starter battery positive terminal are tight.

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[L' Hobo]

As you are already aware, earthing is problematic with these vehicle. On the Ducato the original one is usually a braided one under air filter, perhaps your is the same? I cleaned used that same bolt to add an extra one to one of the studs on the gearbox while keeping the original too.

You can, of course, quick check if it's a earthing problem by using a jump lead between the engine and the body.

 

[mitzimad]

intermittent problems are often bad earths fit an extra earth strap engine to body if no difference at least you can rule it out